Aldridge MRI as knee still hurts and some notes from todays practice

[STOMP]

Maybe you should stop responding to me then and do us both a favor

I enjoy reading your thoughts because I like to laugh

STOMP

 

[RoyToy]

Awwww. You can't produce anything to back up your position, and you're so mad.

Lol at you ignoring Aldridge's 2 non-contact injuries

Unless you want to admit you're dumb(no mods, I'm not saying that) then you're obviously trolling with this post. I don't waste my time on trolls.

 

[RoyToy]

I enjoy reading your thoughts because I like to laugh

STOMP

Aldridge is wearing down right before your eyes and you'd rather research players that played 30 years ago.

That makes me laugh

 

[STOMP]

Jordan is, as is Chamberlain (whose stats you also posted). Jordan was also a perimeter player, so using him is a flawed comparison anyway.

prior to this season Aldridge was primarily a perimeter player on offense. He certainly didn't slash to the hoop (taking hard falls) like MJ regularly did early in the early part of his career. I'd argue that his style of play is actually less taxing on the body then MJ's was... anyone else want to weigh in on this question?

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

Aldridge is wearing down right before your eyes and you'd rather research players that played 30 years ago.

That makes me laugh

hyperbole pulled straight from the ass with nothing to back it up but more inane cackling

STOMP

 

[Nikolokolus]

clean it up guys or take it to PMs

 

[RoyToy]

hyperbole pulled straight from the ass with nothing to back it up but more inane cackling

STOMP

Yet you can't deny that Aldridge is wearing down right before your eyes. I clearly have no leg to stand on here

Wait...what's that? MJ did it? That must mean it's okay for everyone!

How can I deny this substantial evidence that's been brought before me?!?!?!

It must mean Aldridge's injuries are fake

 

[PtldPlatypus]

prior to this season Aldridge was primarily a perimeter player on offense. He certainly didn't slash to the hoop (taking hard falls) like MJ regularly did early in the early part of his career. I'd argue that his style of play is actually less taxing on the body then MJ's was... anyone else want to weigh in on this question?

STOMP

But we're not talking about Aldridge from prior seasons. We're talking about Aldridge from this season, who plays like a true power forward.

you'd really have any issue with Aldridge's career arc with going similarly to Duncan's??? Seriously? I've looked back at his yearly stats like 4 times now and just can't believe you think you've got any argument. I'm fine with stepping LA's minutes down as he gets older, but it bares pointing out that Timmy averaged over 5 more MPG then LA his first 5 seasons and was always the primary focus of his team's offense. Pretty sure that this year (just like the first 4) LA will still average less minutes then TD did in his 5th season when both were/are 25. It also bears mention that Timmy played 4 years of big time college ball to LA's 2.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=1&p1=aldrila01&y1=2011&p2=duncati01&y2=2002

If I believed for a moment that Aldridge were as skilled, talented, or intelligent as Duncan, then I might believe that his career would have a slight chance of following the same arc as Duncan's. However, that's not the point. The point was that you were holding Duncan up as an example of an all-time great who averaged big minutes over multiple seasons as evidence that we should not be concerned about Aldridge doing the same. The fact is that after doing so, he began to experience injury issues at the age of 27. With Aldridge already having missed three times as many games due to injury over his first seasons than Duncan did over his first six--and that in a less demanding role--it would seem reasonable to be concerned about the impact that big minutes might have on Aldridge's durability, especially considering his new-found role.

want to make me a bet worth my time digging through stats on whether I can find a month of play from one of my examples where they averaged at least 42 minutes?

No, because that would mean nothing to me. Examples of power forwards who shot 40% from 3 would not convince me that LA should. Examples of power forwards who won 50+ games while playing little to no defense would not convince me that LA should. And examples of power forwards who averaged 42+ mpg over the course of a month would not convince me that LA should either.

 

[blazerboy30]

Lol at you ignoring Aldridge's 2 non-contact injuries

Unless you want to admit you're dumb(no mods, I'm not saying that) then you're obviously trolling with this post. I don't waste my time on trolls.

Let's assume that you are right, and reducing LA's minutes would reduce his chance of injury.

What do you reduce his minutes to? What is the magic number of minutes that he needs to be playing to avoid injury?

 

[STOMP]

But we're not talking about Aldridge from prior seasons. We're talking about Aldridge from this season, who plays like a true power forward

which I still would argue is less physically taxing then the beating MJ took taking it to the hole. Dude brought it hard

The point was that you were holding Duncan up as an example of an all-time great who averaged big minutes over multiple seasons as evidence that we should not be concerned about Aldridge doing the same.

almost. Team's should always be concerned about the health of their best players. If they sustain a tweak I'm pretty sure the Docs would advise they should be held back to make sure that it subsides. But if they're good to go, 40 minutes of NBA hoops is something that many have proven is fine

The fact is that after doing so, he began to experience injury issues at the age of 27.

was that due to wear and tear or the luck of the draw? Was MJ worn down when he broke his foot in his 2nd year or was that bad luck. You are drawing conclusions while offering little context

With Aldridge already having missed three times as many games due to injury over his first seasons than Duncan did over his first six--and that in a less demanding role--it would seem reasonable to be concerned about the impact that big minutes might have on Aldridge's durability, especially considering his new-found role.

LA missed 7 games his rookie year to a shoulder surgery in the offseason. Should I be worried about that catching up to him? Pretty sure the other 12 games were to a heart condition that he had surgically corrected and not an injury. Again, nothing I'm worried about in the wear and tear department. He's missed all of 6 games seasons 2-5 so your concerns about his durability seem misplaced

No, because that would mean nothing to me. Examples of power forwards who shot 40% from 3 would not convince me that LA should. Examples of power forwards who won 50+ games while playing little to no defense would not convince me that LA should. And examples of power forwards who averaged 42+ mpg over the course of a month would not convince me that LA should either.

okay... whatever dude

STOMP

 

[THE HCP]

being put down by someone you don't respect isn't much of a put down

STOMP

Being put down by ME on the other hand.....

 

[STOMP]

Being put down by ME on the other hand.....

agreed, that would be horrible. Good to see you spelled your name right in your avatar this time... baby steps

STOMP

 

[Minstrel]

Pretty good discussion.

For my own part, it certainly feels like Aldridge should play fewer minutes, but that's mostly due to the conventional wisdom that anything getting up near 40 minutes per game is dangerous. While conventional wisdom can have some merit, I think STOMP's point is well-taken that many players have shown that it's far from an absolute principle and I'd want to see some evidence either that it's a bad idea for Aldridge specifically or that 40 MPG is so commonly destructive than Aldridge would have to be a major outlier to survive it (in basketball terms, obviously).

Right now, it's mostly just rhetoric of the form "Aldridge is playing a ton of minutes, a ton of minutes means injuries, everyone knows that."

And I don't think the fact that Aldridge is experiencing some pain is direct evidence. Players sustain tweaks and pains just as a matter of playing basketball, even players playing 15 minutes per game. Now, if a doctor examining Aldridge were to say that overwork was a significant contributor, then we'd really have something.

 

[STOMP]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olajuha01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html

STOMP

 

[crandc]

For heaven's sake! Each person's body is unique and you can't say what Aldridge should do based on Jordan, Duncan, or Elvis Presley! If he says he's dog tired and hurting, he is probably right.

 

[illmatic99]

Here are some of LA's tweets over the past few weeks.

Back in the cold tub again!

Done with practice time to nap now! Body is tired !

In the cold tub!

In the cold tub trying to get ready for tonight !

My body felt like it had been run over by a bus this morning!

Wish I could sleep to 11 or 12 everyday! Lol

@Patty_Mills def slept in lil bro after playing 65 min last night!

This "cold tub" is essentially a tub filled with cold water that helps in restoring muscles to their original state. And after a game last week, he admitted to pacing himself so that he could play more minutes.

“I hate to say this, but I was pacing in the the third,” Aldridge said. “I was kind of tired, so I wasn’t trying to take that many shots, so I was kind of pacing in the third to wait to the fourth to try to go to the basket.”

If you watch his post game interviews, he is out of breath and panting every time. Dude needs rest.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think it's clear that LMA can play a ton of minutes and still remain effective on the court, but if it's coming from his own "mouth" that he feels like he's playing too much -- which all of his tweets seem to indicate -- then he should play fewer minutes. The fact that he suffered a minor (?) injury and had to get an MRI to check it out doesn't mean that there is direct correlation with minutes played, but when exhaustion sets in it's not completely unreasonable to think that he might be more prone to injury. Better safe than sorry IMO.

 

[mook]

Aldridge is asking far, far more out of his body this year than he has ever before. It's hardly surprising he's complained a lot about feeling tired.

The interesting thing to see is if he can physically adjust over the next year to being a 38-40mpg low post player, or if there's an upper limit on what he can handle over 82 games and a playoff run. I don't think even he knows. It's a great time to find out, with him still young and our front line so thin. I'm glad Nate is pushing him.

I will say that I'm sure he can handle 40-45 mpg in the playoffs, which is what really matters to me. That's something Duncan did every year until he was 30.

 

[illmatic99]

you'd really have any issue with Aldridge's career arc with going similarly to Duncan's??? Seriously? I've looked back at his yearly stats like 4 times now and just can't believe you think you've got any argument. I'm fine with stepping LA's minutes down as he gets older, but Timmy did average over 5 more MPG then LA his first 5 seasons and was always the primary focus of his team's offense. Pretty sure that this year (just like the first 4) LA will still average less minutes then TD did in his 5th season when both were/are 25. It also bears mention that Timmy played 4 years of big time college ball to LA's 2.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=1&p1=aldrila01&y1=2011&p2=duncati01&y2=2002


want to make me a bet worth my time digging through stats on whether I can find a month of play from one of my examples where they averaged at least 42 minutes?

STOMP

This is kind of silly. The thing about LA is not just about minutes. You also have to consider what he does in those minutes. He doesn't have a Parker/Ginobili/whoever to run the offense so that he can take a few plays off. With Aldridge, we're going to him in the post EVERY TIME. The amount of beating he's taking night in and night outis unmatched.

Plus, like crandc said, every body is built differently.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I hate to do this, but:

On my vacation earlier this summer i got up off the couch and remember my knee having a sharp pain in it. That was about a month ago...After a couple of weeks, i had to finally tell someone so i went to St. Vincent's Sports Performance (where i worked out at before draft) and got my knee looked at...We went to the doctor's the next day to get a MRI and that night me and my mom ended up in the doctor's office being told that I have to get surgery. It's a light one, just a scope...

Pritchard said Oden had MRIs on both knees before the draft and they were "pristine."

Clean MRI coupled with sharp pain does not necessarily equal healthy. If we hear anything about swelling in that knee within the next month or so, I'm certainly going to be concerned.

 

[Minstrel]

Plus, like crandc said, every body is built differently.

My understanding was that STOMP provided those links to make exactly that point: that every body is built differently. In other words, I don't think he was saying that because Duncan and Jordan and others have successfully played big minutes, that Aldridge is guaranteed to be fine doing the same. I think his point was that heavy minutes don't affect everyone the same way (i.e. negatively), and it's certainly possible for players to play big minutes without mishap.

Whether Aldridge is one of those players? I don't know, I don't think STOMP knows (or claims to know) but I also don't think anyone calling for a reduction in his minutes knows, either. It's definitely something that the Blazers organization had better keep on top of, though.

 

[blazerboy30]

For my own part, it certainly feels like Aldridge should play fewer minutes, but that's mostly due to the conventional wisdom that anything getting up near 40 minutes per game is dangerous. While conventional wisdom can have some merit, I think STOMP's point is well-taken that many players have shown that it's far from an absolute principle and I'd want to see some evidence either that it's a bad idea for Aldridge specifically or that 40 MPG is so commonly destructive than Aldridge would have to be a major outlier to survive it (in basketball terms, obviously).

I keep reading these "conventional wisdom" and "common sense" statements but I have never seen anything to back them up. I'm not saying you're wrong, but is there really something out there that suggests 40mpg is bad or dangerous, but 36mpg good and safe?

 

[STOMP]

Here are some of LA's tweets over the past few weeks.

This "cold tub" is essentially a tub filled with cold water that helps in restoring muscles to their original state. And after a game last week, he admitted to pacing himself so that he could play more minutes.

If you watch his post game interviews, he is out of breath and panting every time. Dude needs rest.

an athlete icing down, using a cold tub, or being physically tired after competing is not a red flag that something is wrong. It's normal. Cold tubs have been in locker rooms for decades now as ice has long been one of the most common ways to combat the normal lactic acid buildup/soreness that comes with physical activity. Heck, after running hoops I've been sandwiching my feet between packs of frozen peas since my late 20's... I'm still playing a 2-3 times a week (usually 1-2 hours at a time) and I'm 43 now. Sleep food & lots of liquids are all great ways to recharge the body after big workouts. A team's star admitting he's pacing himself in the 3rd quarter so he can bring it in winning time is causing concern too... really?

With as snakebiten as the Blazers have been to injury I sort of understand the concern that some are expressing. This thread could really use more of handiman's participation as he's an athletic trainer

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

My understanding was that STOMP provided those links to make exactly that point: that every body is built differently. In other words, I don't think he was saying that because Duncan and Jordan and others have successfully played big minutes, that Aldridge is guaranteed to be fine doing the same. I think his point was that heavy minutes don't affect everyone the same way (i.e. negatively), and it's certainly possible for players to play big minutes without mishap.

Whether Aldridge is one of those players? I don't know, I don't think STOMP knows (or claims to know) but I also don't think anyone calling for a reduction in his minutes knows, either. It's definitely something that the Blazers organization had better keep on top of, though.

exactly. Being tired/sore is the body's normal reaction after athletic competition. Of course we're all beautiful snowflakes/unique, so monitoring the body is important to make sure that an athlete doesn't develop a more serious physical condition then one that can't be treated with normal means (ice, sleep, food, liquids). With millions of dollars invested, every team is doing just that with all their players (from star to role).

the links I've provided were to give examples of players everyone is familiar with who have played the sort of minutes that Aldridge has logged of late. 40 MPG is uncharted territory for him, but it's been done many times before so it's not unrealistic to think someone could sustain this pace. The ground hasn't become any softer over the years, but shoes, shoe inserts, and training/recovery techniques have all advanced giving him a better chance of being able to handle this then those who proceeded him.

STOMP

 

[Minstrel]

I keep reading these "conventional wisdom" and "common sense" statements but I have never seen anything to back them up. I'm not saying you're wrong, but is there really something out there that suggests 40mpg is bad or dangerous, but 36mpg good and safe?

No, that was my point. It's "conventional wisdom" simply because so many people believe it. But I've yet to see any evidence or studies done to show what is actually dangerous. It "feels" (to me) like more minutes are dangerous, but part of that is simply the brain-washing of people claiming it all throughout my basketball-watching life.

Someone brought up pitchers and innings and pitch counts earlier. I've actually seen studies on that (Baseball Prospectus has, or used to have, a "Pitcher Abuse Points" measure and found that there were statistically significant correlations between pitch counts over a certain amount--something like 120 in a game--and increased injury risk). I've seen other studies over the years. So I'm much more willing to buy into limiting pitch counts.

The general thrust of my posts in this thread has been: Maybe Aldridge is playing "too many" minutes, but I've really seen nothing compelling yet to illustrate that.

 

[STOMP]

No, that was my point. It's "conventional wisdom" simply because so many people believe it. But I've yet to see any evidence or studies done to show what is actually dangerous. It "feels" (to me) like more minutes are dangerous, but part of that is simply the brain-washing of people claiming it all throughout my basketball-watching life.

in my 30s I started working June-Sept for the California Dept. of Fish & Game doing a biological research project in the High Sierras. When I first showed up I had Danner leather hiking boots and the conventional wisdom thought that going 10 miles with a 50 lb. pack was near the human limits. My mountain goat coworkers teased me about the boots until I tried trailrunners like the rest of them. My conventional wisdom told me I needed the ankle support but having lighter shoes and building up my endurance & strength over time had me stepping in more control and feeling much fresher then I'd ever experienced backpacking before. By midway through that summer I was regularly doing 20-30 miles in a day sometimes with a pack that exceeded 70 pounds. Learning what and when to eat drink & rest helped too.

The following summers I'd see the new workers having to break through the same conventional wisdom barriers that I did. It's amazing what the human body is capable of... putting outdated preconceptions behind you can be part of that.

STOMP

 

[blazerboy30]

in my 30s I started working June-Sept for the California Dept. of Fish & Game doing a biological research project in the High Sierras. When I first showed up I had Danner leather hiking boots and the conventional wisdom thought that going 10 miles with a 50 lb. pack was near the human limits. My mountain goat coworkers teased me about the boots until I tried trailrunners like the rest of them. My conventional wisdom told me I needed the ankle support but having lighter shoes and building up my endurance & strength over time had me stepping in more control and feeling much fresher then I'd ever experienced backpacking before. By midway through that summer I was regularly doing 20-30 miles in a day sometimes with a pack that exceeded 70 pounds. Learning what and when to eat drink & rest helped too.

The following summers I'd see the new workers having to break through the same conventional wisdom barriers that I did. It's amazing what the human body is capable of... putting outdated preconceptions behind you can be part of that.

STOMP

This reminds me of the new wave of people starting to run barefoot and with shoes without cushioning in order to reduce injury.

 

[STOMP]

btw... I've some Sierra pix from my last summer w/CA Dept of Fish & Game in my personal profile if anyone wants to get a taste of what my "work" entailed

STOMP

 

[Eastoff]

This reminds me of the new wave of people starting to run barefoot and with shoes without cushioning in order to reduce injury.

like these?
http://www.citysports.com/Vibram-FiveFingers-Classic-Smartwool---Mens/190018/Product

 

[PapaG]

an athlete icing down, using a cold tub, or being physically tired after competing is not a red flag that something is wrong. It's normal. Cold tubs have been in locker rooms for decades now as ice has long been one of the most common ways to combat the normal lactic acid buildup/soreness that comes with physical activity. Heck, after running hoops I've been sandwiching my feet between packs of frozen peas since my late 20's... I'm still playing a 2-3 times a week (usually 1-2 hours at a time) and I'm 43 now. Sleep food & lots of liquids are all great ways to recharge the body after big workouts. A team's star admitting he's pacing himself in the 3rd quarter so he can bring it in winning time is causing concern too... really?

With as snakebiten as the Blazers have been to injury I sort of understand the concern that some are expressing. This thread could really use more of handiman's participation as he's an athletic trainer

STOMP

Are you really comparing getting in some pick-up run 2-3 times a week with the rigors of playing 42 mpg in the NBA 3-4 times a week?

Now I've seen it all.