Aldridge's D vs Thomas' D

[Da_O]

I've been arguing with a couple of Bulls fans that I know pretty well. Well they've been claiming they'd take Thomas because he's a better defender. Now disregarding the homerism in taking Tyrus, was wondering if Thomas actually is a better defender than Aldridge. From what I've seen Thomas is nothing to write home about on defense.

Anyway what's your take.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't know about Thomas' defense, but I sure as hell haven't seen LMA get blocked like this...

[video=youtube;whh9ZCFoYLQ]

 

[Freshtown]

I would say that Aldridge is a superior on-ball defender, but Thomas has the edge when it comes to help defense from the weak side, particularly help-side blocks.

Overall, I would give Aldridge the edge though. His body is built to defend against the bulky post players on the NBA better than Tyrus's.

 

[Zipperhead]

Don't waste your time talking to those people. Anyone that says they would rather have Tyrus Thomas than LaMarcus Aldridge, regardless of the reasoning, is a complete idiot.

 

[bobf]

Based on ~3-year +/- linear regression.

Player   	Rating	ORating	DRating	StdErr	Poss	Minutes
Aldridge, L	+10.8	+6.2	-4.6	1.9	23,941	6,477
Thomas, Ty	+3.7	+0.0	-3.7	1.8	15,729	3,965

Negative defense numbers are good. e.g. -4.6 means Aldridge supposedly takes away 4.6 points of opponent offense per 100 possessions as compared to a baseline group of low-minute players (scrubs).

Defense leaning Aldridge but really too close to call given the std error.

 

[GoBlazersGo]

Where's our resident Bulls homer and his "power rankings" when you need him!?

 

[azsun67]

Not sure who is better, but if Nate is ok with putting LA on Kevin Durant, then LA must be pretty good defensively. When your PF is versitile enough to start at PF and then can slide over and guard a SF who doesn't bang I think you have a special player.

 

[handiman]

...and help shadow/trap elite point guards.

 

[MrJayremmie]

only Chicago fans (who proclaimed Thomas as a bust and a lost cause early this season) would take him over Aldridge (has more to do w/ pride probably. I doubt Thomas will ever reach the stats LMA is putting up right now (in his 3rd year). And LMA is a huge part of why this team is going to win more than 50 games.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Thomas is a helluva weakside shot blocker, but his overall understanding of team defense, his post defense and his ability to guard 1-4 (which Aldridge does more frequently than you might think) are not as developed as LaMarcus' abilities in this area. LMA does an outstandin job of forcing guys to shoot over him, does a pretty good job of not conceding deep post position and denies dribble penetration without the ball swatting tendencies that look better in a boxscore.

Does this mean Thomas is chopped liver? No, he's actually pretty good defensively and considering his less than ideal height for a 4 does a great.

 

[andalusian]

Nicely said Nik. TT is a very good help defender. It is still clear, however, that the LMA for Thomas + VK was a steal for Portland.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Which player is better defensively is certainly debatable. You could make a case for either player.

Which player is better overall is not debatable. It's Aldridge, and it's not even close.

BNM

 

[Sug]

Based on every facet of the game, I take LMA. Then there is the whole other issue of off the court and overall mental attitude. I still take LMA hands down. Tyrus Thomas is the second coming of Stromile Swift.

 

[Minstrel]

I'd rather have a superior on the ball post defender than a superior weak-side help defender. By and large, on the ball defenders make a much bigger impact. Thus Aldridge, while not being the weak-side shot-blocker that Thomas is, would be my pick on defense.

Factoring in everything, Aldridge blows Thomas away.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Which player is better defensively is certainly debatable. You could make a case for either player.

Which player is better overall is not debatable. It's Aldridge, and it's not even close.

BNM

A fair summary.

I must say, it isn't often that Blazer fans get out homered! In an odd sort of way, I am almost impressed.

 

[Pinwheel1]

If LMA's offense was not so important to the success of the blazers, and all he had to do was focus on defense and rebounds........then he would excell in that area as well. Thomas on the other hand could never be the offensive player LMA is.

 

[Денг Гордон]

I don't think it's really debateable who is better defensively, it is clearly Thomas.

BPG: Thomas 1.9 > Aldridge 0.9
SPG: Thomas 1.1 > Aldridge 0.9
DWS: Thomas 3.2 > Aldridge 2.6
D-Rtg: Thomas 104 > Aldridge 109

What Thomas isn't, is a defensive anchor, like Mutumbo, Wallace, Duncan, Shaq, Dream, etc. But he is still a very good defender. If Thomas has a good defensive center next to him, like he would with Oden/Pryzbrilla if he was in Portland, he would shine even more. In the one year where Thomas played with that defensive anchor, he put up a great 93 D-Rtg. With Aldridge being playing with those better defensive center, it makes his worse defensive stats look even worse.

Aldridge is clearly better offensively.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

There isn't a GM in the league who would take Thomas over Aldridge.

Tyrus is a garbage man, which isn't a bad thing, but he isn't a guy you rely on.

 

[Денг Гордон]

There isn't a GM in the league who would take Thomas over Aldridge.

Tyrus is a garbage man, which isn't a bad thing, but he isn't a guy you rely on.

He's not a garbage man. He's a starting caliber NBA power forward on the upswing. He's averaging 10.6/6.4/1.9 in 27 minutes. That's good production.

He was billed a project coming into the league, and was supposed to take awhile to develop. Not be great off the bat, and now we see him developing. He plays good defense, has a developing jumpshot, and can take most players off the dribble (unfortunately he isn't that great at finishing off the dribble drive right now).

He's not a world beater, he's not a garbage man. He's in between. He's a developing 22 year old, who will look great some nights, average on others, and bad on others.

It's too early to tell whether Thomas will pan out, but by no means is he a garbage man.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

10.6 ppg


whoa! dream big...

 

[Jayps15]

While the difference in shotblocking/steals is significant, Aldridge has been a significantly better man defender which has a lot of value.

Opp Per:
Aldridge PF: 15.6
Thomas PF: 18.0

On Court per 100 possessions:

Aldridge Off: 117.1 Def: 108.7
Thomas Off: 105.4 Def: 109.7

With how close they are defensively, the big advantage Aldridge has offensively, and the lessening gap in rebounding (LMA RB%: 12.5, Thomas RB%: 13.5) it's not much of a debate as to whom the better/more valuable player is.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I don't think it's really debateable who is better defensively, it is clearly Thomas.

BPG: Thomas 1.9 > Aldridge 0.9
SPG: Thomas 1.1 > Aldridge 0.9
DWS: Thomas 3.2 > Aldridge 2.6
D-Rtg: Thomas 104 > Aldridge 109

What Thomas isn't, is a defensive anchor, like Mutumbo, Wallace, Duncan, Shaq, Dream, etc. But he is still a very good defender. If Thomas has a good defensive center next to him, like he would with Oden/Pryzbrilla if he was in Portland, he would shine even more. In the one year where Thomas played with that defensive anchor, he put up a great 93 D-Rtg. With Aldridge being playing with those better defensive center, it makes his worse defensive stats look even worse.

Aldridge is clearly better offensively.

I knew this post was going to come from you.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

While the difference in shotblocking/steals is significant, Aldridge has been a significantly better man defender which has a lot of value.

Opp Per:
Aldridge PF: 15.6
Thomas PF: 18.0

On Court per 100 possessions:

Aldridge Off: 117.1 Def: 108.7
Thomas Off: 105.4 Def: 109.7

With how close they are defensively, the big advantage Aldridge has offensively, and the lessening gap in rebounding (LMA RB%: 12.5, Thomas RB%: 13.5) it's not much of a debate as to whom the better/more valuable player is.

Bingo!

 

[Freshtown]

Whoa there....


Just because Aldridge is clearly the better player doesn't mean Tyrus Thomas is a bust, or that he sucks, or he's a garbage time player. The last half of this season has been a breakout season of sorts, and I suspect it'll continue into next season. The man has a bright future- maybe not superstar bright, but I could definitely see him being a 19 and 8 player in a few years. He's also had some tremondous blocking games this year- 7 if i recall correctly. Not a lot of players have the ability to ever do that once!

But yes, Aldridge is much better. But no, Thomas is not horrible.

 

[Денг Гордон]

Whoa there....


Just because Aldridge is clearly the better player doesn't mean Tyrus Thomas is a bust, or that he sucks, or he's a garbage time player. The last half of this season has been a breakout season of sorts, and I suspect it'll continue into next season. The man has a bright future- maybe not superstar bright, but I could definitely see him being a 19 and 8 player in a few years. He's also had some tremondous blocking games this year- 7 if i recall correctly. Not a lot of players have the ability to ever do that once!

But yes, Aldridge is much better. But no, Thomas is not horrible.

He also set the Bulls record for most games with a block in a row. It's going to end up being the biggest block streak in the NBA this year.

 

[Boob-No-More]

It's too early to tell whether Thomas will pan out, but by no means is he a garbage man.

Aldridge has already panned out. While Thomas may yet develop into an above average NBA starter in his 4th, 5th or 6th season, Aldridge was one at the beginning of his 2nd season and is playing at a near all-star level in his 3rd - and still getting better.

There isn't a coach or GM in the league that would take Thomas over Aldridge today. Go ahead and defend him all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the Bulls blew that trade.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

He's not a garbage man. He's a starting caliber NBA power forward on the upswing. He's averaging 10.6/6.4/1.9 in 27 minutes. That's good production.

As a rookie, Aldridge put up 9.0/5.0.1.2 in 22 MPG with a PER of 17.1.

If you normalize both players production to 36 MPG, that comes to:

Aldridge (rookie season) per 36 minutes:
14.6/8.1/1.9 with a PER of 17.1

Thomas (3rd season) per 36 minutes:
14.0/8.5/2.5 with a PER of 15.7

So, Thomas as a 3rd year player has finally managed to be about as productive as Aldridge was as a rookie.

In terms of overall production, Aldridge started higher than Thomas and has improved at a faster rate.

Thomas:
1st Season, PER = 14.8
2nd Season, PER = 14.6
3rd Season, PER = 15.7

Aldridge:
1st Season, PER = 17.1
2nd Season, PER = 18.5
3rd Season, PER = 19.5

In terms of PER, Thomas is currently a slightly above Average NBA Player (15.0) and Aldridge is currently slightly below Borderline All-Star (20.0). As a second year player, Aldridge was already slight better than a Solid 2nd Option (18.0).

BNM

 

[Wheels]

He's not a garbage man. He's a starting caliber NBA power forward on the upswing. He's averaging 10.6/6.4/1.9 in 27 minutes. That's good production.

He was billed a project coming into the league, and was supposed to take awhile to develop. Not be great off the bat, and now we see him developing. He plays good defense, has a developing jumpshot, and can take most players off the dribble (unfortunately he isn't that great at finishing off the dribble drive right now).

He's not a world beater, he's not a garbage man. He's in between. He's a developing 22 year old, who will look great some nights, average on others, and bad on others.

It's too early to tell whether Thomas will pan out, but by no means is he a garbage man.

I think you are misinterpreting the context he is using "Garbage Man" in.. he isnt saying he is a garbage player, or a garbage time player.. more of a "lunch pale, do the dirty work type player" and teams need those, hell he would be a perfect backup (aside from the IQ of a fence post) to Aldridge here. Teams need do the dirty work players, Joel is one of those for us here in Portland.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I think you are misinterpreting the context he is using "Garbage Man" in.. he isnt saying he is a garbage player, or a garbage time player.. more of a "lunch pale, do the dirty work type player" and teams need those, hell he would be a perfect backup (aside from the IQ of a fence post) to Aldridge here. Teams need do the dirty work players, Joel is one of those for us here in Portland.

When I hear "garbage man" I think of Cedric Ceballos - a player who could score 20 PPG without having a single play run for him. He got almost all his points off offensive rebounds, broken plays, steals, fast breaks, etc.

Since Thomas is a high energy player without great half-court low post skills, he could develop into a similar type of "garbage man" on offense.

Of course, defensively they are very different players.

BNM

 

[Денг Гордон]

As a rookie, Aldridge put up 9.0/5.0.1.2 in 22 MPG with a PER of 17.1.

If you normalize both players production to 36 MPG, that comes to:

Aldridge (rookie season) per 36 minutes:
14.6/8.1/1.9 with a PER of 17.1

Thomas (3rd season) per 36 minutes:
14.0/8.5/2.5 with a PER of 15.7

So, Thomas as a 3rd year player has finally managed to be about as productive as Aldridge was as a rookie.

In terms of overall production, Aldridge started higher than Thomas and has improved at a faster rate.

Thomas:
1st Season, PER = 14.8
2nd Season, PER = 14.6
3rd Season, PER = 15.7

Aldridge:
1st Season, PER = 17.1
2nd Season, PER = 18.5
3rd Season, PER = 19.5

In terms of PER, Thomas is currently a slightly above Average NBA Player (15.0) and Aldridge is currently slightly below Borderline All-Star (20.0). As a second year player, Aldridge was already slight better than a Solid 2nd Option (18.0).

BNM

That's silly. If we do that, then we could easily say that LaMarcus Aldridge right now isn't as good as Thomas as a rookie.