OT Alec Baldwin, Accidental Killer?

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Hoopguru said:
I heard she was hit in the chest. How did that happen was it pointed directly at her?
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The shot was likely directly at the camera which is often where the DP is going to be. But that's just a guess.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I agree with you but is there responsibility on the actors to always check a gun that’s handed to them? I can’t imagine just trusting someone else that a gun is safe.
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I check every gun that I pick up for a round in the breech. But that's a personal gun safety issue and not a law. I've been around guns for many many years while I'll bet most others have not. Gonna keep guns around then you'd better learn some basic gun safety and learn it good.
Hey, here's another pet peeve. Why do they allow people out there hunting when they know nothing about gun safety or hunting?
 
New Mexico has an involuntary manslaughter law that can comes into play when there is negligence. Not using safety measure with any gun is negligent, imo. And I believe there was certainly negligence in this case.
 
Hoopguru said:
New Mexico has an involuntary manslaughter law that can comes into play when there is negligence. Not using safety measure with any gun is negligent, imo. And I believe there was certainly negligence in this case.
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Clearly there was negligence but I don't believe it was criminal.
 
crandc said:
Killer implies deliberate act. This was not. Ghastly accident.
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Killer implies he caused her death, which is indisputable. He pointed and fired a loaded gun at a person, killing her.

Accident implies that he tripped, or was bumped, causing him to point the loaded gun at a person and pull the trigger, but again killing her.

We can agree that it's highly doubtful that he intended to kill her.

I hope we can agree she'd still be alive today if he hadn't pointed a loaded gun at her and pulled the trigger?

Forget the red herrings of HIS production company's previously reported unsafe handling of guns and recreational use of live ammo. These are 100% non-factors in her death. These are media damage control to shield an arrogant Leftist Oligarch from being held responsible for killing a person by his willful act of gross negligence with indifference to human life.

Every gun safety/handling course ever conceived starts with...

Rule #1 ALWAYS ASSUME THE GUN IS LOADED BEFORE PICKING IT UP.

Rule #2 PERSONALLY CONFIRM WHETHER THE GUN IS LOADED OR NOT.

I was taught this by my father at age 8, and again in a hunter safety course when I got my first gun at age 10, and again in my 30's when I took another Hunter safety course with my sons.

Supposedly, Hollywood requires actors to take some sort of gun safety course before handling guns on the set.

Baldwin has acted and used guns in at least 7 movies.

I hope he eventually feels terrible about killing her and destroying so many lives, but his past personal interactions and public rants indicate a degree of sociopathic behavior which casts doubt on that hope.
 
crandc said:
I see your point. But mine was gun control is more about keeping guns from people who shouldn't have them, training, tracing.
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Clearly then, by your "idea" of gun control, Baldwin is a specific person who should never have had a gun. A shining example for your crusade against Freedom.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Trump is gonna have a field day with this. One more red herring to throw to his adoring masses to “prove” how “bad” his detractors are……..it’s just another tragic situation he will be only too happy to exploit……
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…….or @MARIS61………How could I have forgot him???
 
crandc said:
There should never have been bullets in the gun.
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So if I kill someone by running them down with my car while I'm texting, your first go-to is to blame the gas station attendant for filling my tank?
 
crandc said:
I just don't know enough about that, but on a news program they said the prop master, I think that was the title, is in charge.
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The person holding the gun is in charge.

Nobody fired the gun remotely.

Now I'm remembering why intellectual discussions ceased occurring on this board.
 
Chris Craig said:
That filming company is done. Going to get sued to hell.
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It's Baldwin's company, and he will use it as a shield in court from personal blame. He will sacrifice his employees, blaming them, payoff the victims through the company to protect his massive personal fortune, declare the company bankrupt, and start a new company when the dust clears.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It pisses me off when anti-gun people immediately turn around and start spewing anti-gun crap right after a shooting, and it equally pisses me off that I'm seeing pro-gun people taking pleasure in the fact that an anti-gun advocate shot two people.
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You might be mistaking outrage for pleasure.
 
MARIS61 said:
It's Baldwin's company, and he will use it as a shield in court from personal blame. He will sacrifice his employees, blaming them, payoff the victims through the company to protect his massive personal fortune, declare the company bankrupt, and start a new company when the dust clears.
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Dude, c’mon. We’re talking about Alec Baldwin here, NOT Donald Trump. Please try to stay on track…..
 
You can be charged for involuntary manslaughter in New Mexico, if a death was cause by negligence. Its up to the DA decide if this should be the case.
With all the problems with mis fires with that company and set, Im amazed that Baldwin himself didn't think to check the that the gun was not loaded.
If a Navy seal handed me a firearm and said it was unloaded, I would still check as its the first thing you do in handling any firearm regardless where it came from.
Common since saves lives...
 
Baldwin is probably a flaming asshole for all I know but the gun handler that gave him a loaded gun is responsible for making sure it was a cold gun with blanks...that's what that person is paid to do...I feel terrible for the guy that someone handed him a prop and it had a bullet in the chamber...that's not Baldwin's job but it is someone else's job. This was not premeditated by the actor...it was carelessness by the weapons handler...same thing with the Brandon Lee shooting death on set....when they tell you you have a safe prop, and actor will probably trust the handler to make sure it is a safe prop. Figures some folks would politicize it because he played Trump on SNL ...but that's as shallow as it gets when looking at this tragedy. If a Navy seal hands you a gun and says it has blanks but doesn't....that's on the Navy seal...the actor is following the script and the prop people are supposed to keep it safe...they didn't...I'll bet Alec never fires a weapon again on a movie set...I sure wouldn't
 
MARIS61 said:
Killer implies he caused her death, which is indisputable. He pointed and fired a loaded gun at a person, killing her.

Accident implies that he tripped, or was bumped, causing him to point the loaded gun at a person and pull the trigger, but again killing her.

We can agree that it's highly doubtful that he intended to kill her.

I hope we can agree she'd still be alive today if he hadn't pointed a loaded gun at her and pulled the trigger?

Forget the red herrings of HIS production company's previously reported unsafe handling of guns and recreational use of live ammo. These are 100% non-factors in her death. These are media damage control to shield an arrogant Leftist Oligarch from being held responsible for killing a person by his willful act of gross negligence with indifference to human life.

Every gun safety/handling course ever conceived starts with...

Rule #1 ALWAYS ASSUME THE GUN IS LOADED BEFORE PICKING IT UP.

Rule #2 PERSONALLY CONFIRM WHETHER THE GUN IS LOADED OR NOT.

I was taught this by my father at age 8, and again in a hunter safety course when I got my first gun at age 10, and again in my 30's when I took another Hunter safety course with my sons.

Supposedly, Hollywood requires actors to take some sort of gun safety course before handling guns on the set.

Baldwin has acted and used guns in at least 7 movies.

I hope he eventually feels terrible about killing her and destroying so many lives, but his past personal interactions and public rants indicate a degree of sociopathic behavior which casts doubt on that hope.
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Had no one ever pointed a gun at someone on a movie set and fired it. We wouldn't have the action films that so many of us want and pay for. So, it appears you're against free speech.
ps He's already expressed horror at what happened.
 
riverman said:
Baldwin is probably a flaming asshole for all I know but the gun handler that gave him a loaded gun is responsible for making sure it was a cold gun with blanks...that's what that person is paid to do...I feel terrible for the guy that someone handed him a prop and it had a bullet in the chamber...that's not Baldwin's job but it is someone else's job. This was not premeditated by the actor...it was carelessness by the weapons handler...same thing with the Brandon Lee shooting death on set....when they tell you you have a safe prop, and actor will probably trust the handler to make sure it is a safe prop. Figures some folks would politicize it because he played Trump on SNL ...but that's as shallow as it gets when looking at this tragedy. If a Navy seal hands you a gun and says it has blanks but doesn't....that's on the Navy seal...the actor is following the script and the prop people are supposed to keep it safe...they didn't...I'll bet Alec never fires a weapon again on a movie set...I sure wouldn't
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My point is regardless who’s responsible for prop guns and what they tell you it should still be checked by the recipient, it would have saved her life.
Its the first thing anyone is taught handling a gun real or not. My comment regarding Navy Seal was just to emphasize the point I made. It has nothing to do with trump or politics.
 
WHY would there even be a live gun on a set, let alone on the prop table? It makes no sense.

BTW, legally, Baldwin did nothing wrong.
 
Stevenson said:
BTW, legally, Baldwin did nothing wrong.
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We'll see, he was also the executive producer of the film, meaning the buck stops with him concerning the hiring of the crew. He has serious liability on this and you know the insurance company is already working on getting out of this.
 
riverman said:
Baldwin is probably a flaming asshole for all I know but the gun handler that gave him a loaded gun is responsible for making sure it was a cold gun with blanks...that's what that person is paid to do...I feel terrible for the guy that someone handed him a prop and it had a bullet in the chamber...that's not Baldwin's job but it is someone else's job. This was not premeditated by the actor...it was carelessness by the weapons handler...same thing with the Brandon Lee shooting death on set....when they tell you you have a safe prop, and actor will probably trust the handler to make sure it is a safe prop. Figures some folks would politicize it because he played Trump on SNL ...but that's as shallow as it gets when looking at this tragedy. If a Navy seal hands you a gun and says it has blanks but doesn't....that's on the Navy seal...the actor is following the script and the prop people are supposed to keep it safe...they didn't...I'll bet Alec never fires a weapon again on a movie set...I sure wouldn't
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All true but still anyone who has any training in the handling of a gun knows better than to not check for a live round in the breech of a gun he has just picked up or been handed. A very stupid accident and tragic beyond all belief.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
We'll see, he was also the executive producer of the film, meaning the buck stops with him concerning the hiring of the crew. He has serious liability on this and you know the insurance company is already working on getting out of this.
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He hires he trains so what more can he do? He can't personally supervise every single thing that might go wrong in the making of a movie. Stunt men are responsible for stunts in a movie yet when things go wrong do we charge them with a crime?
 
Chris Craig said:
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/woman-fatally-shot-prop-firearm-004512073.html

Baldwin was filming is newest movie Rust, when he fired a prop gun, killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injuring director Joel Souza.

An investigation is underway. No charges have been filed.

This incident harkens back to actor Brandon Lee who was was shot and killed by a prop gun in 1993 while filming the crow.

These incidents are rare. Prop masters take great care to make sure prop guns, are safely discharged.

Local 44 which represents prop masters sent an email saying the bullet was a live round and that the prop master on set was not a member of the Local 44.
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By the way, I watched the first episode of Rust and it's pretty awful.
 
riverman said:
Baldwin is probably a flaming asshole for all I know but the gun handler that gave him a loaded gun is responsible for making sure it was a cold gun with blanks...that's what that person is paid to do...I feel terrible for the guy that someone handed him a prop and it had a bullet in the chamber...that's not Baldwin's job but it is someone else's job. This was not premeditated by the actor...it was carelessness by the weapons handler...same thing with the Brandon Lee shooting death on set....when they tell you you have a safe prop, and actor will probably trust the handler to make sure it is a safe prop. Figures some folks would politicize it because he played Trump on SNL ...but that's as shallow as it gets when looking at this tragedy. If a Navy seal hands you a gun and says it has blanks but doesn't....that's on the Navy seal...the actor is following the script and the prop people are supposed to keep it safe...they didn't...I'll bet Alec never fires a weapon again on a movie set...I sure wouldn't
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There's nothing political here.

A grossly negligent homicide resulted in a woman's death.

If Baldwin wasn't a celebrity Oligarch you'd never defend him.
 
Hoopguru said:
My point is regardless who’s responsible for prop guns and what they tell you it should still be checked by the recipient, it would have saved her life.
Its the first thing anyone is taught handling a gun real or not. My comment regarding Navy Seal was just to emphasize the point I made. It has nothing to do with trump or politics.
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I wasn't referring to you about the politicizing of this shooting....that was all over the news by Don Jr and the Trump camp after Baldwin had the accident....hence the SNL reference. The backlash was coming from that circle pretty harshly considering the tragedy of the event..
 
Hoopguru said:
New Mexico has an involuntary manslaughter law that can comes into play when there is negligence. Not using safety measure with any gun is negligent, imo. And I believe there was certainly negligence in this case.
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But what's the point? It wasn't deliberate and the person who is paid to make sure this doesn't happen is probably going to be unemployed.

There is no danger to society here. It was just an accident.
 
tlongII said:
Alec Baldwin is an idiot. You should ALWAYS check your gun whenever you pick it up.
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He's an actor. He's probably done this 100 times and he has a professional who is paid to make sure things like this don't happen.

This scenario happens safely thousands of times per year.

This was an accident. One which can be paid for (and learned from) without further ruining another life.

I don't support criminal punishments for people when there is no criminal intent or risk of future incidents.
 
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