Politics All the phone calls.

[andalusian]

a complete purge of our government may work to our advantage.

I know this is not a popular opinion given our current 'leadership' but I disagree with the idea that the US government does not work. It works surprisingly well given the huge amount of people it needs to serve, the freedoms it must protect and still does a lot of good despite the current rot at the top. There is an awful lot of 'institutional knowledge' that will be lost if a purge happens, just look at what happened to our pandemic preparedness when he who shall not descend ramps purged it.

The US Government is a very big entity with a lot of knowledge that is hard to replace quickly - so a purge is likely going to bring more pain that we imagine with little assurances that it will be back anytime soon or at all.

 

[riverman]

I know this is not a popular opinion given our current 'leadership' but I disagree with the idea that the US government does not work. It works surprisingly well given the huge amount of people it needs to serve, the freedoms it must protect and still does a lot of good despite the current rot at the top. There is an awful lot of 'institutional knowledge' that will be lost if a purge happens, just look at what happened to our pandemic preparedness when he who shall not descend ramps purged it.

The US Government is a very big entity with a lot of knowledge that is hard to replace quickly - so a purge is likely going to bring more pain that we imagine with little assurances that it will be back anytime soon or at all.

It does not work for everyone....it does work for some...there are major changes that need to be addressed...if it worked we would still have a middle class...as it is we have a ballooning homeless population

 

[andalusian]

It does not work for everyone....it does work for some...there are major changes that need to be addressed...if it worked we would still have a middle class...as it is we have a ballooning homeless population

Never claimed otherwise. Just pointing out that a purge is likely to be a bigger problem than expected. It is not easy to start a project as big as the USA from zero.

 

[yankeesince59]

I know this is not a popular opinion given our current 'leadership' but I disagree with the idea that the US government does not work. It works surprisingly well given the huge amount of people it needs to serve, the freedoms it must protect and still does a lot of good despite the current rot at the top. There is an awful lot of 'institutional knowledge' that will be lost if a purge happens, just look at what happened to our pandemic preparedness when he who shall not descend ramps purged it.

The US Government is a very big entity with a lot of knowledge that is hard to replace quickly - so a purge is likely going to bring more pain that we imagine with little assurances that it will be back anytime soon or at all.

I realize hat a "complete purge" may not be rational or realistically probable...my comment was merely a barometer of my disdain for parts of our government, but again just to be clear, I did not mean to say or imply that "our government does not work".

 

[riverman]

Never claimed otherwise. Just pointing out that a purge is likely to be a bigger problem than expected. It is not easy to start a project as big as the USA from zero.

I think the purge will come in November and it doesn't need to happen instantly....took a lot of time to fuck it up, will take time to fix it just like our police system of racial profiling and our bloating military expansion and investment in the arms race

 

[andalusian]

I think the purge will come in November and it doesn't need to happen instantly....took a lot of time to fuck it up, will take time to fix it just like our police system of racial profiling and our bloating military expansion and investment in the arms race

I suspect that you will see maybe 30% turnover in the elected government, at most. This would be a huge change, but far from a purge. 2018 which was another large change election - had 20% change ratio.

 

[riverman]

I suspect that you will see maybe 30% turnover in the elected government, at most. This would be a huge change, but far from a purge. 2018 which was another large change election - had 20% change ratio.

Trump gave the country a lifetime's worth of Supreme Court judges....that will not change at all in my lifetime....big win for conservatives

 

[crandc]

Yup...on one hand "experience" can be helpful as far as knowing how to get things done in Washington but on the other hand "experience" also breeds corruption.

I also touch on this in another thread but nearly as important as getting rid of Trump, we also need to educate ourselves as well as others on the issues and the people running for office in out state and local elections...half measures are not enough and so, a complete purge of our government may work to our advantage.

BUT, none of this will matter if we shirk our civic responsibilities by NOT VOTING !...we have the tools to make a change but we MUST exercise our right to vote.

I'm not in favor of automatically voting against every incumbent, I like my Congressperson (Eric Swalwell) and county commissioner, to whom I appealed over a local problem, he solved it, he's got my vote.

 

[yankeesince59]

I already clarified my statement...but sure, there are a few I'd like to see stay and some I'd like to see go.

 

[andalusian]

Trump gave the country a lifetime's worth of Supreme Court judges....that will not change at all in my lifetime....big win for conservatives

I agree that Mitch McConnell has done as big a disservice to this country as Trump has - by brazenly ignoring a sitting presidents rights (Obama) and transgressions (Trump) - but as I said, a purge is not likely to happen anytime soon - and that is mostly a good thing.

 

[CupWizier]

And you’re such a beam of sunshine.

As opposed to your living under a rain cloud without an umbrella outlook?

 

[yankeesince59]

..."term limits".

 

[andalusian]

..."term limits".

Certainly a good way to bring new blood into the system.

I would not mind seeing 2 or 3 terms for senators (that's 12 - 18 years) , 6 terms for congress members (12 years max) and 15 years for supreme court judges.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Certainly a good way to bring new blood into the system.

I would not mind seeing 2 or 3 terms for senators (that's 12 - 18 years) , 6 terms for congress members (12 years max) and 15 years for supreme court judges.

I’d love to see presidents limited to one 6 year term. It would mean all their energy and attention would be focused on leading the country, instead of spending the first 4 year term running for reelection. And squandering all that time if they should lose in the end.

 

[andalusian]

I’d love to see presidents limited to one 6 year term. It would mean all their energy and attention would be focused on leading the country, instead of spending the first 4 year term running for reelection. And squandering all that time if they should lose in the end.

Not sure this is a good idea. That's too much power for too long without the public being able to intervene. Just think what 2 more years of Trump would have done to this country...

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not sure this is a good idea. That's too much power for too long without the public being able to intervene. Just think what 2 more years of Trump would have done to this country...

We may still find out.

Also, if he didnt think he had a second term,l maybe his ass would not be on twitter so much and be studying reports more.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Not sure this is a good idea. That's too much power for too long without the public being able to intervene. Just think what 2 more years of Trump would have done to this country...

Yeah but.........hopefully (a big hopefully) we’ll never be that collectively stupid as a country ever, ever again. But then, after the debacle of 2016 I’m certainly not go to EVER hold my breath on that.....

 

[Orion Bailey]

Yeah but.........hopefully (a big hopefully) we’ll never be that collectively stupid as a country ever, ever again. But then, after the debacle of 2016 I’m certainly not go to EVER hold my breath on that.....

LOL. You have more faith in Americans than I do.

 

[yankeesince59]

Certainly a good way to bring new blood into the system.

I would not mind seeing 2 or 3 terms for senators (that's 12 - 18 years) , 6 terms for congress members (12 years max) and 15 years for supreme court judges.

I'll second that.

 

[yankeesince59]

Yeah but.........hopefully (a big hopefully) we’ll never be that collectively stupid as a country ever, ever again. But then, after the debacle of 2016 I’m certainly not go to EVER hold my breath on that.....

Yup, because those people who voted for Trump in '16 are still "out there". (pun intended)

 

[Stevenson]

You can’t really demand that a bunch of people read a long article from a source they don’t trust, then say “I told you so” when they don’t read it.

If you don't or can't trust Carl Bernstein, or if you don't know who he is and what he has done, then you really have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Hoopguru]

..."term limits".

Ive been around old corporate guys that have lost their drive and giddy up, many that continue on are either milking the positions for money, power and /or both.
When I see Joe address the public he's definitely lost some of it, sad, but that happens when you get burnt out. Ill still vote for Joe unless he goes against cops and endorse's the radicle left. I will not vote for Trump because of his bs and I won't vote for Joe for the same reason.

 

[yankeesince59]

Ive been around old corporate guys that have lost their drive and giddy up, many that continue on are either milking the positions for money, power and /or both.
When I see Joe address the public he's definitely lost some of it, sad, but that happens when you get burnt out. Ill still vote for Joe unless he goes against cops and endorse's the radicle left. I will not vote for Trump because of his bs and I won't vote for Joe for the same reason.

...I fully understand your plight. But if you do the math you should be able to understand that every vote you deny Biden, you're conversely giving to Trump.

...and needless to say, Joe's VP pick will be huge.

 

[Hoopguru]

...I fully understand your plight. But if you do the math you should be able to understand that every vote you deny Biden, you're conversely giving to Trump.

...and needless to say, Joe's VP pick will be huge.

He would have to convince me he's gone commie and I don't think that will happen.

 

[riverman]

I think a presidential term should be like high school.....every year you need to graduate to move onto the next year...and I think UCD is onto something with 6 years but you need to have an out if they are failing across the board at the job..yearly job performance audit.....also they need proper vetting before they can be on any ballot. Biggest thing is the campaign should be 6 weeks long total and no campaigning should be allowed until 6 weeks left in a term. Also no election should be allowed that only displays a competition between the two major parties...all of our parties need an equal shot at presenting their case no matter how little money they have...I was in govt class my senior year of HS and they taught that it takes 7 years in office to achieve major policy change...one term would not be enough

 

[andalusian]

..all of our parties need an equal shot at presenting their case no matter how little money they have...

Sorry River, but without clarification - that is a horrible idea - because without some regulation - you will get thousands of nut cases presenting their crazy ideas for the same time ahead of everyone - which will present a glut of information where people will not be able to pay attention and who knows what kind of garbage prevails.

I honestly believe that a small number of parties with primaries is a proper idea - you basically have a funnel that ideas have to move through multiple stages and pass enough people to be presented to the entire nation so we do not waste everyone's time on every crazy idea that some idiot comes with.

Now, if the number of "parties" should be 2, 3, 4 or 5 is up to debate - but realistically, you need some kinds of mechanism to filter the wheat from the chaff...

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

...I fully understand your plight. But if you do the math you should be able to understand that every vote you deny Biden, you're conversely giving to Trump.

...and needless to say, Joe's VP pick will be huge.

I agree with HoopJ in general but this year Biden gets my vote, even though I’m not “really” voting for Biden. I’m voting for his Vice President, regardless of who she ends up being. That is the individual who is actually going to be cleaning up Trump’s catastrophe over the long haul.......

 

[yankeesince59]

I agree with HoopJ in general but this year Biden gets my vote, even though I’m not “really” voting for Biden. I’m voting for his Vice President, regardless of who she ends up being. That is the individual who is actually going to be cleaning up Trump’s catastrophe over the long haul.......

The end result is the same as long as Trump is no longer in office.

 

[Lanny]

So i expect a number will immediately say they cannot trust the media or CNN in particular. However if even 10% of this is true which i have absolutely no doubt it is? How could anyone stand with this president?

Go Ahead. Read this article. Not just the first sentence. Not just the first paragraph. Take the time to read the whole thing. Word for treacherous WORD.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/29/politics/trump-phone-calls-national-security-concerns/index.html

This is how it starts.....

"In hundreds of highly classified phone calls with foreign heads of state, President Donald Trump was so consistently unprepared for discussion of serious issues, so often outplayed in his conversations with powerful leaders like Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Recep Erdogan, and so abusive to leaders of America's principal allies, that the calls helped convince some senior US officials -- including his former secretaries of state and defense, two national security advisers and his longest-serving chief of staff -- that the President himself posed a danger to the national security of the United States, according to White House and intelligence officials intimately familiar with the contents of the conversations."

"The calls caused former top Trump deputies -- including national security advisers H.R. McMaster and John Bolton, Defense Secretary James Mattis, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, and White House chief of staff John Kelly, as well as intelligence officials -- to conclude that the President was often "delusional," as two sources put it, in his dealings with foreign leaders. The sources said there was little evidence that the President became more skillful or competent in his telephone conversations with most heads of state over time. Rather, he continued to believe that he could either charm, jawbone or bully almost any foreign leader into capitulating to his will, and often pursued goals more attuned to his own agenda than what many of his senior advisers considered the national interest."

I knew this before he was elected.

 

[Lanny]

Can you imagine how much scrutiny the First Black president got? Seriously the very first day he was president John Bohner had a press briefing and proclaimed they would do everything in their power to make sure he was a "One Term President".
That was a man that won both the electoral vote and popular vote TWICE and was president of the Harvard law review. A man that was previously a US Senator. That kind of Political divisiveness had never before been heard of and to this day has still been on display four years after his second term has ended.

Bohner looks like a dirty word that will make you go blind and explains my eyesight. His name is Boehner which is pronounced with a long A rather than a long O.