All Things Dyson Daniels

[illmatic99]

If we want a center, trade into the latter part of the first round and find a guy with some basic fundamental skills (size/athleticism/will to improve) and incubate him in your lab with good big man coaches. Wait three years, and you'll have a good one provided your player development staff is decent.

Or hell, sign a younger one with the MLE.

Don't waste the highest pick we've had since Dame on him.

 

[illmatic99]

That was the #27th pick in the draft, not #7. Using Robert Williams doesn’t help your point.

Jaxson Hayes, Mo Bamba, those guys were actual lottery picks, and they work against your point lol.

You also do realize it took Williams 4 years to get to that point right? I remember seeing Williams struggle to get minutes his first 3 years. Dame will be like 34-35 in 4 years, it’s only worth the pick if you think he’ll be a 20ppg guy. But these days, the 20ppg bigs shoot 3s.

Wiseman was #2. Hayes was #8. Bamba was #6. Wendell Carter Jr. was #7. Collins was #10. Dragan Bender was #4. Poeltl was #9. Thon Maker was #10. This is the history of centers picked in the lottery over the past few drafts. Every single one was over-drafted at their position.

Can even argue Ayton over Luka, but Ayton was almost universally deemed a can't miss prospect, unlike these other guys.

Duren falls into the former bin.

 

[STOMP]

If Joe Cronin really does like to take a big swing on high-upside, the two prospects that might fall to the 7th spot would be Shaedon Sharpe and Jalen Duren. Duren will almost certainly be there at the 7th pick. Many "experts" think Duren could end up being the best or one of the best players from this draft class. I said before that Duren is the player that would be the best fit for Damian Lillard and Anfernee Simons among the prospects that should be available. Lillard has never had a pick and roll partner that can snatch the ball out of the sky and jam it even if the pass isn't perfect. Some people think this isn't a skill or a valuable skill. We know by our years with Nurkic it definitely isn't a given. Or look at Gobert fumbling a ball right at the hoop. It is a valuable skill and together with Lillard or Simons it's a scary threat for the defense.
By the way, are you worried about his actual height? He didn't measure at the combine.

Nope. While I'm disappointed that not participating in the combine seems to be a growing trend, my eyes say with certainty that Jalen Duren isn't a tweener. I'd guess 6'9 to 6'10 barefoot 250 lbs and that the reported 7'5 wingspan is close. No issues with this guy being big enough to match up on 5s. I also see he's often above the square on the backboard. That he runs with ease. That depending on the shot he uses the appropriate long arm to go after blocks. That he can shadow/move his feet really well. That he's very coordinated. Whats the issue?

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

Don't draft raw centers who can't dribble or shoot early in the lottery. Learn from history. They don't ever work out. If we have the 15th pick... fine take a shot at Duren, but not at 7.

Learn from history, we're all beautiful snowflakes.

No worries taking the other side on Jalen from you

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

I think the things you’re missing aren’t necessarily Duren’s fault. Duren isn’t a guy that can handle or bring the ball up the court, which is becoming increasingly more important. Wasn’t ever a good FT shooter in college, so you’re gonna have a hard time convincing me he’ll ever even be an average 3pt shooter in the NBA.

Fine by me, I want primarily defense, boards and solid picks and finishes from the dunker spot on offense from my biggest Big. How many 3s are Looney and Williams averaging?

he plays like a Robert Williams + 3 inches. Robert Williams was 6’9 240lb at the combine, if Robert Williams grew 3 inches, I’m still not sure if he’d be a top 10 pick that year.

If he didn't have knee issues already, I'd have no issues spending the #7 on a young Robert Williams. Dude is a difference maker.

Guys like Bamba and Capela can do that. You don’t necessarily need a 250lber to do that. You need need an athletic guy in the dunker spot.

Yes the dunker spot requires athleticism, luckily clearly Duren is more athletic then Bamba and Capela. Not only is Capela less athletic, but he's shorter, has less length and weight yet currently makes 18 Mil a year.

STOMP

 

[BankTeller]

Fine by me, I want primarily defense, boards and solid picks and finishes from the dunker spot on offense from my biggest Big. How many 3s are Looney and Williams averaging?

Lol, those are names of guys in the bottom half of the first round silly. I want primarily defense, boards, and solid picks and finishes from the dunker spot on offense from my biggest big too. I’m just saying I’m not willing to spend a #7 pick on him like you are, that’s all. Solid chance he’s there at #13 or #15. I’d love to have Duren, he just better not be the crowning jewel of draft night.

If he didn't have knee issues already, I'd have no issues spending the #7 on a young Robert Williams. Dude is a difference maker.

Lmao. I mean, no doubt he’s a difference maker, but even with the ability to see what SGA/Mikal Bridges/Simons have become in hindsight, you’d have “no problem” spending #7 on Robert Williams that year? Well…alright.

Yes the dunker spot requires athleticism, luckily clearly Duren is more athletic then Bamba and Capela. Not only is Capela less athletic, but he's shorter, has less length and weight yet currently makes 18 Mil a year.

BUT YOU DON’T NEED THE MOST ATHLETIC GUY IN THE DUNKER SPOT. If more athletic dunks meant we get more than 2 points a dunk, I’d totally get you. Lol. Bamba is still a very athletic C who can easily finish lobs but can also be a threat to shoot the 3. So yeah, if Duren made just a few 3’s in college so I can be encouraged of something, I’d get the fascination. But he took 1 3, made 0 3’s. I really wouldn’t know what to say at this point, but we’ll agree to disagree I guess? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I’d rather spend a 2nd rounder on Orlando Robinson than draft Duren with #7. Fortunately, with news of “interest” in Ayton, Duren for #7 doesn’t seem likely.

 

[JDC]

I guess it depends on how you value the wings in this class. There are interesting bets throughout but I don't see it as a great wing class overall. Definitely don't see any all star ceilings.

Duren could certainly be a bust, but I think his combination of strength level and quickness off the floor are the level of tools we don't see very often with bigs and clearly didn't with all of the disappointing high pick examples he's being compared to.

 

[STOMP]

Lol, those are names of guys in the bottom half of the first round silly. I want primarily defense, boards, and solid picks and finishes from the dunker spot on offense from my biggest big too. I’m just saying I’m not willing to spend a #7 pick on him like you are, that’s all. Solid chance he’s there at #13 or #15. I’d love to have Duren, he just better not be the crowning jewel of draft night.

Lmao. I mean, no doubt he’s a difference maker, but even with the ability to see what SGA/Mikal Bridges/Simons have become in hindsight, you’d have “no problem” spending #7 on Robert Williams that year? Well…alright.

BUT YOU DON’T NEED THE MOST ATHLETIC GUY IN THE DUNKER SPOT. If more athletic dunks meant we get more than 2 points a dunk, I’d totally get you. Lol. Bamba is still a very athletic C who can easily finish lobs but can also be a threat to shoot the 3. So yeah, if Duren made just a few 3’s in college so I can be encouraged of something, I’d get the fascination. But he took 1 3, made 0 3’s. I really wouldn’t know what to say at this point, but we’ll agree to disagree I guess? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I’d rather spend a 2nd rounder on Orlando Robinson than draft Duren with #7. Fortunately, with news of “interest” in Ayton, Duren for #7 doesn’t seem likely.

you sure do laugh a lot. Fine with me if my views/values don't line up with yours. Who is right on this stuff isn't established today.

btw, Bamba doesn't play the dunker spot, he hangs out on the 3pt line and bench. He's a lumbering Big & can't switch off so he gets targeted on D and often into foul trouble. I don't see the comparison to Duren at all & I sure wasn't touting him predraft. You provided the examples of lessor players, I'd prefer the specimen.

STOMP

 

[illmatic99]

I guess it depends on how you value the wings in this class. There are interesting bets throughout but I don't see it as a great wing class overall. Definitely don't see any all star ceilings.

Duren could certainly be a bust, but I think his combination of strength level and quickness off the floor are the level of tools we don't see very often with bigs and clearly didn't with all of the disappointing high pick examples he's being compared to.

i'd have no problem with Duren if he was BPA at 7. I don't think he will be.

 

[MickZagger]

All givens. I won't beat my head against the wall if they draft him, but I will cross my fingers he develops as I recognize where he's at as well as where he could end up IF/when he adds a reliable outside threat. Mostly, I like other probable options at #7 better. I'm still waiting to hear about what I'm apparently missing on Jalen Duren that has him likely available when we select. Whats exactly wrong with the bigger, faster, jump out of the gym, coordinated 18.5 year old kid who seems physically like a buff Jaren Jackson Jr. but oriented to inside play? Good grief think of Dame or Ant taking dudes off the dribble and having that monster to throw it up to when the shot blocker comes over. Of defending up on jump shooters because of the shot blocker looming.

Sorry I'm digressing from the thread, but I've gone down a Jalen Duren rabbit hole today lying low post Covid booster shot. Bear with me...

STOMP

I like Duren but the way the league has shifted these days I’m hesitant to use a top 10 pick who’s top possible trait is interior defense. I’ve become enamored with loading up the team with wing players who are versatile defensively and can create off the dribble. Even a guy like Banchero has a versatility to his game where he can stretch out the offense enough.

15 years ago I would’ve said yes! Draft him without reservation. But todays game places so much more value on being able to defend the 3 ball and create.

I think back sometimes to that Oden over Durant draft and shaking my head because I think in todays NBA if given that option today the Blazers would have gone Durant

 

[illmatic99]

I like Duren but the way the league has shifted these days I’m hesitant to use a top 10 pick who’s top possible trait is interior defense. I’ve become enamored with loading up the team with wing players who are versatile defensively and can create off the dribble. Even a guy like Banchero has a versatility to his game where he can stretch out the offense enough.

15 years ago I would’ve said yes! Draft him without reservation. But todays game places so much more value on being able to defend the 3 ball and create.

I think back sometimes to that Oden over Durant draft and shaking my head because I think in todays NBA if given that option today the Blazers would have gone Durant

i'm still baffled banchero is not the clear cut #1 pick in this draft with his skillset. The idea that he can potentially be the third pick is startling and I would really try to trade up for him if the price was right.

 

[JDC]

Clearly higher on Duren's skill level then most here. He has pretty terrible feel with his back to the basket and short arms his hooks right now, but he's way ahead for an 18 year big (especially with his tools) as far as comfort and vision for passing windows in advantage situations and operating in handoffs.

Also don't think people understand how bad his context was at Memphis.

 

[JDC]

i'm still baffled banchero is not the clear cut #1 pick in this draft with his skillset. The idea that he can potentially be the third pick is startling and I would really try to trade up for him if the price was right.

He's probably #1 for me too. Safest all-star bet. His size and skill combo is pretty rare. Best outcomes feel like a #2 on offense and #3 on D (I'm fairly high on the defense based on the HS stuff).

He seemed to wear down at the end of games and the competitiveness didn't seem to always be there, but that's pretty nit picky. Also whish he was a little more physical and less skill reliant. I don't think his handle and footwork alone create consistent enough good looks to not try and use that frame a bit more.

 

[STOMP]

I think back sometimes to that Oden over Durant draft and shaking my head because I think in todays NBA if given that option today the Blazers would have gone Durant

Maybe, but I'd contend a healthy Oden would have been a dominant player in any era. Sucks that wasn't to be, but that doesn't have much of anything to do with Duren unless he's got concerning medicals. While I do see a Duren healthy Oden comparison, I don't see who is the 2022 Durant who Portland potentially could be passing on. Several of the other guys we're bantering about at #7 are poor shooting wings including the guy who this thread is dedicated to. Back in the day I confess to wanting GO, but I called Durant a Carmelo-esk scorer who could get his shot off at will. After his dominant year at Texas, it was clear he was a superstar to be.

STOMP

 

[illmatic99]

He's probably #1 for me too. Safest all-star bet. His size and skill is pretty rare. Best outcomes feel like a #2 on offense and #3 on D (I'm fairly high on the defense based on the HS stuff).

He seemed to wear down at the end of games and the competitiveness didn't seem to always be there, but that's pretty nit picky. Also whish he was a little more physical and less skill reliant. I don't think his handle and footwork alone create consistent enough good looks to not try and use that frame a bit more.

ya i love the idea of jabari as a prospect, but his handle is so far away from being that of a true #1. unless it improves, i see him being nothing more than an great 3&d guy. Terrific in a vacuum but leaves you just a bit lacking as the #1 pick. Think Orlando should buck the consensus and take Paolo but they'll never do it.

 

[JDC]

ya i love the idea of jabari as a prospect, but his handle is so far away from being that of a true #1. unless it improves, i see him being nothing more than an great 3&d guy. Terrific in a vacuum but leaves you just a bit lacking as the #1 pick. Think Orlando should buck the consensus and take Paolo but they'll never do it.

Yep. As far as fits, Paolo-Chet-Jabari feels best to me.

You could probably interchange Jabari and Chet though

 

[blazerfan11]

You missed my point.

Rob Williams was the 27th pick. Gobert was the 27th pick. Jokic was the 41st pick. Bam was the 14th pick. Allen was the 22nd pick. Vucevic was the 16th pick. Nurkic was the 16th pick.

Starting caliber centers are usually found later on in the draft.

The opportunity cost of drafting a center with higher bust potential at #7 is too great with potentially star caliber wings on the board.

Duren is not a center prospect in the caliber of Mobley/Towns/Ayton/Embiid/etc. Hell, he doesn't even profile as well as the last bigman to come out of Memphis that is looking very much like a bust (Wiseman).

I just spent the last 30 minutes watching Thabeet videos at UConn, and was baffled at how he was drafted 5 spots ahead of Steph. Let's not be the one to make a similar mistake with Jalen. The risk of missing out on a better prospect (obviously not one of Steph's caliber but still good) is too great. The risk is far less if you're picking 15.

How good he'll be in 4 years is an unknown. He could definitely end up being in the league of the centers you mentioned.

 

[BankTeller]

i'd have no problem with Duren if he was BPA at 7. I don't think he will be.

This is what I’m saying as well. If he was a can’t miss like Embiid, KAT, Ayton, Mobley, I’d have no problem drafting him if he was BPA. But because he lacks any offensive game, I don’t think he’ll be the BPA either.

 

[HansenYang]

This is what I’m saying as well. If he was a can’t miss like Embiid, KAT, Ayton, Mobley, I’d have no problem drafting him if he was BPA. But because he lacks any offensive game, I don’t think he’ll be the BPA either.

Ayton dies not belong in this list...

 

[Driew]

i'm still baffled banchero is not the clear cut #1 pick in this draft with his skillset. The idea that he can potentially be the third pick is startling and I would really try to trade up for him if the price was right.

I think he'll be the #1 pick on draft night.

 

[blazerkor]

I think he'll be the #1 pick on draft night.

Yeah, just because there's a bunch of mocks that say something will happen, definitely doesn't make them right. I'm not saying Paolo goes number one. I'm just saying when there is no clearcut number one guy in a draft some crazy shit can happen.

 

[Predator]

Paolo should be the clear cut #1 pick tho, why the consensus doesn’t trend that way baffles me

incoming “BuT hE dOeSnT pLay dEfeNse” comments.

 

[wizenheimer]

He must be lying... we all know people stop growing soon as they turn 16.

I'm on Medicare and I'm still growing

of course, circumference isn't the same thing as height

 

[Scalma]

Paolo should be the clear cut #1 pick tho, why the consensus doesn’t trend that way baffles me

incoming “BuT hE dOeSnT pLay dEfeNse” comments.

wahhh not everyone agrees with me wahhhh

 

[Bingo Bango]

God help us if we take this kid. He’s a prospect and nothing more. We need proven players right now. It’s winning time, not “what if” or “just wait” time.

 

[Blazinaway]

God help us if we take this kid. He’s a prospect and nothing more. We need proven players right now. It’s winning time, not “what if” or “just wait” time.

LOL, are you referring to Dyson or Paolo? All I see on this page is Paolo/Duren talk and nothing about Dyson

 

[illmatic99]

Since working out in PDX, Daniels has workouts in NY, Detroit, Washington, and Indiana.

 

[BankTeller]

Ayton dies not belong in this list...

Sorry, I just talking about all of those guys in terms of their reputation in college. He had an NBA body right away and already had some offensive skill. Most people thought he’d be better than he’s been thus far, and he was pretty much the consensus #1 pick.

 

[HansenYang]

Sorry, I just talking about all of those guys in terms of their reputation in college. He had an NBA body right away and already had some offensive skill. Most people thought he’d be better than he’s been thus far, and he was pretty much the consensus #1 pick.

I agree the narrative was Ayton should be the #1 pick. I thought that was a bad decision.

He's turned out exactly what I thought his most realistic 'best case' was....

I personally would've drafted Luka #1 & not look back

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

If the second coming of Tim Duncan arrives, he goes #1. Shaq? #1. Embiid or Jokic? Got it. I’ll stop there because it’s a Captain Obvious scenario. Duren is the ONLY center to draft in the lottery, IMHO

Daniels, Dieng, and Sochan — like Duren — are high ceiling guys who will get onto the court early but will take some time.