All things Jalen Duren

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Pinwheel1 said:
Yeah, I would not get rid of Nurk but I would still draft Duren unless someone better slips. And I guarantee whoever you or I say is a better choice, will also have numerous flaws at this stage that we can all critique.
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Everyone these young rookies has flaws but I am not going to risk the number 7 draft pick on a player that question his motor and might be a bust. Hopefully he not a bust I hope he has a great career and that all players that gets drafted. But seeing him playing 6 or 8 games he didn't show me enough motor or enough to be draft at 7. Just because his body looks great don't make him a sure thing in the NBA.
 
James lamphear said:
Everyone these young rookies has flaws but I am not going to risk the number 7 draft pick on a player that question his motor and might be a bust. Hopefully he not a bust I hope he has a great career and that all players that gets drafted. But seeing him playing 6 or 8 games he didn't show me enough motor or enough to be draft at 7. Just because his body looks great don't make him a sure thing in the NBA.
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I respect that, but I have to admit questioning a player's motor in college is a pet peeve of mine. I see it all the time from posters and I think the vast majority of the time it never turns out to be accurate unless the guy is really lethargic. Just my opinion, but I just don't think the common fan knows enough to make that conclusion. (Myself included) Yet I see it made all the time.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I respect that, but I have to admit questioning a player's motor in college is a pet peeve of mine. I see it all the time from posters and I think the vast majority of the time it never turns out to be accurate unless the guy is really lethargic. Just my opinion, but I just don't think the common fan knows enough to make that conclusion. (Myself included) Yet I see it made all the time.
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Not trying to be combative, but what examples do you have of someone who's motor was questioned who turned out to be better in the NBA?

I think the old saying is correct - 'tigers don't change their stripes'. It's difficult for a player to change how active/energetic they play... it requires a complete mind shift.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
Not trying to be combative, but what examples do you have of someone who's motor was questioned who turned out to be better in the NBA?

I think the old saying is correct - 'tigers don't change their stripes'. It's difficult for a player to change how active/energetic they play... it requires a complete mind shift.
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Ben Simmons and Jaylen Brown stick out to me in recent history as guys who vastly underperformed in college due to apathy and broke out in the NBA. (yes, i see the irony in Simmons now).

This kinda stuff happens quite a bit. Rudy Gay was another example whose motor was questioned at UConn but he had a very long career in the league.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
Not trying to be combative, but what examples do you have of someone who's motor was questioned who turned out to be better in the NBA?

I think the old saying is correct - 'tigers don't change their stripes'. It's difficult for a player to change how active/energetic they play... it requires a complete mind shift.
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John Collins comes to mind since we are talking about trading for him now. At least one poster said he was a black hole on offense and no motor on D.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
John Collins comes to mind since we are talking about trading for him now. At least one poster said he was a black hole on offense and no motor on D.
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i agree with you. There's quite a long list of guys who balled out in college because of max effort but did not break out in the NBA for a variety of reasons. I don't think motor is all that great of a predictor for nba success at all.
 
illmatic99 said:
i agree with you. There's quite a long list of guys who balled out in college because of max effort but did not break out in the NBA for a variety of reasons. I don't think motor is all that great of a predictor for nba success at all.
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I agree with you here.

Just because they 'balled out' in college does not mean they will have success in the NBA. It is just 1 key skill that may benefit them.


But none of that has any bearing on players with 'questionable-motors'... I still think the success rate of people with questionable motors is quite low. (ie - Drumond)

From the examples provided above, I don't remember anything pre-draft about Simmons or Brown. They weren't possible targets for the Blazers - so I didn't pay attention to them.
Regarding John Collins - I don't remember anyone questioning his motor. In fact, I think the general consensus was that he was more of a 'high-energy' player.
 
This Duren thread is still pretty active compared to other people brought in so is there some rumor I have not heard about maybe he is the Blazers prime target with this pick or maybe a small trade down and still get him type thing.
OR

Have fans just fallen in love with him even with the chance he could be a bust

I personally am torn on him -- I would take him if the team traded down and if still there around 10 to 12 but not at 7

I think he could be a total stud but I am not so blind to the fact that just as good IF not greater he will be a bust or even at best like a Whiteside type player
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
Not trying to be combative, but what examples do you have of someone who's motor was questioned who turned out to be better in the NBA?

I think the old saying is correct - 'tigers don't change their stripes'. It's difficult for a player to change how active/energetic they play... it requires a complete mind shift.
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A lot of the top players/prospects in college have their defensive ”motor” questioned, often because they have such a large offensive burden to carry.

Jayson Tatum comes to mind.
 
Additionally, most players change how they play going into the NBA. Most of them are going from the “star” or “co star” of their team to “benchwarmer” or “end of the bench guy”. A lot of them will have a much different load than what they had in college which can lead to increased defensive intensity/effort.

on the flip side..Keep in mind that players like Robert Covington and Tony Allen played completely differently in college vs. NBA.
 
Ripcity4life77 said:
I personally am torn on him -- I would take him if the team traded down and if still there around 10 to 12 but not at 7
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This seems to be a common theme. But unless Murray slips to 7 is there really a difference between who is available at 7 and who is available at 10? There sure does not seem to be a consensus on this board on who those 3-5 players are, yet most think #7 is too high for Duren but not at about 1o-12. I don't see much of a difference.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
This seems to be a common theme. But unless Murray slips to 7 is there really a difference between who is available at 7 and who is available at 10? There sure does not seem to be a consensus on this board on who those 3-5 players are, yet most think #7 is too high for Duren but not at about 1o-12. I don't see much of a difference.
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The difference might be getting Julius Randle... if you're into that sort of thing.
 
blazerkor said:
The difference might be getting Julius Randle... if you're into that sort of thing.
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Fair point. I guess I interpret it as many fans just don't think he would be a good pick at 7 but he would at 10 to 15.
And I just think that after the first few players it is all a crap shoot and I don't see a huge difference between them all when you are projecting how they will be 2-3 years from now.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Fair point. I guess I interpret it as many fans just don't think he would be a good pick at 7 but he would at 10 to 15.
And I just think that after the first few players it is all a crap shoot and I don't see a huge difference between them all when you are projecting how they will be 2-3 years from now.
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I am with you 100% but this season for me the difference is adding at least two rotation pieces on draft night. That's why I want to trade back. Duren is my favorite guy in the draft outside of Jabari, Ivey and Banchero... I'm not saying he's a lock to be better than Chet, Keegan, Shaedon, Mathurin, Sochan (who is my fifth favorite), Daniels or even Davis or Agbagi. I'm hoping we can trade back and everyone wants players that can stretch the floor or in Sochan's case defend anyone on the floor. If we do trade back and Duren gets taken before we pick, I'm hoping we can get Sochan.

People might not like this but I really want to trade Bledsoe, 7 and 36 for Randle, 11 and the Mavs 2023 FRP. I want to be able to draft Duren with that 11th pick. I want us to trade the Mavs pick and Bucks pick that we would then own for Jerami Grant. Re-sign Nurk and obviously Ant. Maybe even re-sign Ingles if it's at a very discounted rate from his previous contract. I think Duren will need to show his ability to defend the perimeter to earn some minutes at backup 4 and he'll get at least 20 minutes behind Nurk.

Dame, Ant, Grant, Randle (think 2020-21), Nurk, Hart, Nas, Justise and Duren with Ingles coming on around midseason is a deep team with an extremely varied skillset.
 
blazerfan11 said:
I haven't read or seen anyone question Duren's motor outside of this forum.
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I was wondering about that also so googled Jalen Duren motor and got these three pretty quick:
"Duren was a dominant force during the spring of his junior season and was playing with a chip on his shoulder. When that side of Duren shows up, he is a monster in the paint and is an outstanding switch defender, but scouts saw that motor dialed back upon receiving the number one overall spot in 2022. I want to see the fire return in Duren. "

"Despite Duren’s tantalizing physical gifts, he’s far from a can’t miss prospect. The motor seems to run hot and cold...."

"It is yet to be determined how high he'll be selected exactly — and I am concerned with his selective motor ...."
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I was wondering about that also so googled Jalen Duren motor and got these three pretty quick:
"Duren was a dominant force during the spring of his junior season and was playing with a chip on his shoulder. When that side of Duren shows up, he is a monster in the paint and is an outstanding switch defender, but scouts saw that motor dialed back upon receiving the number one overall spot in 2022. I want to see the fire return in Duren. "

"Despite Duren’s tantalizing physical gifts, he’s far from a can’t miss prospect. The motor seems to run hot and cold...."

"It is yet to be determined how high he'll be selected exactly — and I am concerned with his selective motor ...."
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Who are those from
 
illmatic99 said:
Ben Simmons and Jaylen Brown stick out to me in recent history as guys who vastly underperformed in college due to apathy and broke out in the NBA. (yes, i see the irony in Simmons now).
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the #1 and #3 picks in their respective drafts vastly underperformed in their single year of college play? They seemed to still impress the powers that be of their hoops prowess... what exactly did the apathy you observed cost them? I'm trying to make some sense here...

STOMP
 
illmatic99 said:
who has questioned it here? his motor is probably his biggest positive attribute after his physical stuff
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Mr. Lamphear has and he seems like a fairly good observer to me. but I haven't really watched any tape myself except highlights so I have no idea.
 
Simmons value has to be in the basement, anyone willing to give the 7 and TPE for him straight up?
 
LayneStaley said:
Simmons value has to be in the basement, anyone willing to give the 7 and TPE for him straight up?
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"Dude makes 12M too much for our biggest TPE."
yikes-rachel-dratch.gif
 
STOMP said:
A plodding center who good teams like the Celtics iso all night long. Where is the logic behind sticking with that IF you view a serious upgrade as available. Siting Nurk reminds me of passing on Chris Paul because we've got Sebastian Telfair so lets go with the star wing from a Seattle HS where we have a more urgent need.

Yes Portland's current forwards suck even more, which is why I don't understand the rush of needing a draftee to be ready immediately. This team is multiple good players and years away from being a contender, they've got the time. If management thinks Daniels or whoever is viewed as the BPA with the highest ceiling, fine. I don't agree and see him more as a SG then SF, but he's one of the others I'd be excited to add. But I was answering the question of why they wouldn't want to develop a superstar wing from this draft instead of a Center... I don't see the wings likely available at #7 having the same sort of potential.


I get that siting an example of a high draft pick who flamed out suits the purpose of degrading the guy being debated, but how about you choose someone remotely similar? Duren is at least a half size bigger then Noel. His shot mechanics are not broken and it's unlikely that he misses the first year of NBA play recovering from a serious knee injury. Being a physical specimen is largely why Duren is a top prospect, the promise of what he could become. Unfortunately Noel's NBA story is of a promising player who's career was decimated by knee and foot injuries.

STOMP
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Don't switch and they won't be able to iso Nurkic.

Also, you're saying that bringing up Nurk in relation to Duren when you bring up Chris Paul?

Daniels has above average size for a SF so I don't see how he's more of a SG.
 
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BonesJones said:
Don't switch and they won't be able to iso Nurkic.

Also, you're saying that bringing up Norl is relation to Duren when you height up Chris Paul?

Daniels has above average size for a SF so I don't see how he's more of a SG.
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You must have typed this on your phone, I'll do my best interpretive reading. Switching or not, Nurk is a liability on D. Thats the more important end of the court for a Big man if I'm putting together a team. NN is a terrible comparison for Duren. Much smaller and oft injured, seriously?

I didn't compare Duren to Chris Paul. I compared passing on the better prospect because of whats on the roster to when the Blazers passed on Chris Paul because "we've got Sebastian Telfair" (John Nash quote).

Daniels measured 6'6.0 195 with a 6'11 wingspan at the combine. Albeit much lighter, thats about the same frame as SGs Klay Thompson and Jalen Brown & a size smaller then SFs Wiggins or Tatum. Again if I'm putting together a team, I want versatility on D with guys being able to reasonably guard the spots bigger and smaller then them. I see Daniels as being able to slide onto PGs and SFs but lacking the size to slide onto PFs, which for me makes him a 2.

STOMP
 
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Pinwheel1 said:
This seems to be a common theme. But unless Murray slips to 7 is there really a difference between who is available at 7 and who is available at 10? There sure does not seem to be a consensus on this board on who those 3-5 players are, yet most think #7 is too high for Duren but not at about 1o-12. I don't see much of a difference.
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The fact is, nobody knows who's going to be available at number 7. Mike Schmitz loves Keegan Murray, so trading the pick before we even know who's going to be there seems like a very Sacramento Kings thing to do.
This "win now" may become "be ok now and fuck up the future."
I haven't heard any rumors about New Orleans trading their pick. What's wrong with them? Don't they want to "win now?"
 
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