All things Jalen Duren

[HailBlazers]

Switching or not, Nurk is a liability on D. Thats the more important end of the court for a Big man if I'm putting together a team.

Yeah that's BS. This is a few years old but:
A Better Way To Evaluate NBA Defense

 

[wizenheimer]

The fact is, nobody knows who's going to be available at number 7. Mike Schmitz loves Keegan Murray, so trading the pick before we even know who's going to be there seems like a very Sacramento Kings thing to do.
This "win now" may become "be ok now and fuck up the future."
I haven't heard any rumors about New Orleans trading their pick. What's wrong with them? Don't they want to "win now?"

New Orleans has much better roster balance than Portland. And, with hypothetical good health from Zion (and Nance), their roster is balanced with the strength of it where it needs to be...at wing and forward. That's the opposite of Portland which has gaping holes at wing and forward.

 

[julius]

New Orleans has much better roster balance than Portland. And, with hypothetical good health from Zion (and Nance), their roster is balanced with the strength of it where it needs to be...at wing and forward. That's the opposite of Portland which has gaping holes at wing and forward.

Until Zion has proven he can actually put together a season where he plays, he's a far larger hole in their lineup than anything Portland has.

 

[STOMP]

Yeah that's BS. This is a few years old but:
A Better Way To Evaluate NBA Defense

Portland sucks at D which starts with the Bigs. I'm fine with disagreeing with you and anyone else on this. Nurk is a liability on D mostly because he can't switch onto smaller players which teams regularly exploit.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/def...r=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular Season
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season

STOMP

 

[TBpup]

Duren as a player who needs to elevate a franchise from Day 1......not a good situation.
Duren as a player who has plenty of scorers around him and just needs to come in and play defense, rebound, block shots, and dunk anything near the rim.....quite positive.

He still needs to grow his game, but the pressure would not be so overwhelming. TimeLord, Green, Looney....none of these players can score and aren't incredibly switchable (Green was at one time) and certainly can't shoot, but there they are in the middle of the Finals. It doesn't seem to be much of a stretch to see Duren being much more of an overall contributor while giving the Blazers something they really need. And I think Duren could play some PF in the future as he learns his body. It's shocking how big and defined he is at 18 years old.

 

[wizenheimer]

Until Zion has proven he can actually put together a season where he plays, he's a far larger hole in their lineup than anything Portland has.

well, I did explicitly say 'hypothetical' Zion

But the Pels have Brandon Ingram, Herbert Jones, Jaxson Hayes, half-time-Nance, & Trey Murphy at wing/forward. Blazers have Winslow, Watford, & Little

 

[James lamphear]

I will be the first say I am wrong on Duren but I really don't watch tape on players I actually watch them play the whole games on my evaluation. Tapes our nice but there going show the big things they do and not everything in the game beside them big plays. Again I think Duren is going good NBA or he going be a bust and I don't risk high lottery picks on players like that. Now we trade down then that's a different story.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Duren is going good NBA or he going be a bust and I don't risk high lottery picks on players like that.

I'm not super excited about Duren, but I think boom or bust is exactly who we SHOULD be drafting. This team won't attract superstar free agents, and we don't have the resources to go out and trade for one, so the only chance we have of adding superstar talent is through the draft. Taking safe picks, unless they're already projected out as stars, isn't going to get it done. That's why I'm not against drafting Sharpe, because the guy could turn out to be a legit star. Or he might suck. But that's the gamble.

 

[blazedanugz]

Been brushing up on Duren the last few days and I’m starting to warm up to the idea. Think he has more scoring ability then he showed last year for whatever reason.
Still don’t think he’ll be the pick but if he is, I don’t hate it as much I would’ve two weeks ago. If we ended up moving down and taking him I would be good with that

 

[STOMP]

Something to keep in mind when watching his Memphis tape. He reclassified up, so he's always the youngest guy on the court going up against guys 1-5 years older then him. Whoever gets him is essentially getting a strait from HS kid who played his Senior season at Memphis.

STOMP

 

[blazerfan11]

I'm not super excited about Duren, but I think boom or bust is exactly who we SHOULD be drafting. This team won't attract superstar free agents, and we don't have the resources to go out and trade for one, so the only chance we have of adding superstar talent is through the draft. Taking safe picks, unless they're already projected out as stars, isn't going to get it done. That's why I'm not against drafting Sharpe, because the guy could turn out to be a legit star. Or he might suck. But that's the gamble.

That's how I figure it should be too. Oddly, if rumors are true (and maybe they're not) several of the teams picking before Portland are in "win now" mode. In their case "win now" means making the playoffs.
So maybe it's possible Sacramento, Detroit and Indiana pass on Shaedon Sharpe because he is a project that won't be able to contribute much next season. They might opt for guys like Benedict Mathurin, Dyson Daniels and of course Keegan Murray. Maybe even Jeremy Sochan over Sharpe, because although he is also a project, he should be able to contribute on defense in his rookie season.
If Joe Cronin is true to his word of wanting to take a big swing, he would take Sharpe if he's available at #7 if Keegan Murray is already gone. And if Murray and Sharpe are gone, Duren is probably the next biggest swing.
Also, I think Portland is a great place for a player to develop.

 

[blazerfan11]

Been brushing up on Duren the last few days and I’m starting to warm up to the idea. Think he has more scoring ability then he showed last year for whatever reason.
Still don’t think he’ll be the pick but if he is, I don’t hate it as much I would’ve two weeks ago. If we ended up moving down and taking him I would be good with that

I think there is much more to his game than most people think. His passing should be a plus eventually, and also his mid-range shot.
The one area that is pretty rough is his feel around the hoop on short shots. If he doesn't dunk it, he can have bad misses. Much like Drew Eubanks, although Eubanks has that nice hook shot. But banking off the glass it's not very consistent.

 

[PCmor7]

That's how I figure it should be too. Oddly, if rumors are true (and maybe they're not) several of the teams picking before Portland are in "win now" mode. In their case "win now" means making the playoffs.
So maybe it's possible Sacramento, Detroit and Indiana pass on Shaedon Sharpe because he is a project that won't be able to contribute much next season. They might opt for guys like Benedict Mathurin, Dyson Daniels and of course Keegan Murray.

The irony of this is that I think Sharpe has a very good chance to be a big contributor sooner than Mathurin and Daniels. Murray, OTOH, is plug and play, but his upside isn't anywhere near Sharpe's.

 

[BonesJones]

You must have typed this on your phone, I'll do my best interpretive reading. Switching or not, Nurk is a liability on D. Thats the more important end of the court for a Big man if I'm putting together a team. NN is a terrible comparison for Duren. Much smaller and oft injured, seriously?

I didn't compare Duren to Chris Paul. I compared passing on the better prospect because of whats on the roster to when the Blazers passed on Chris Paul because "we've got Sebastian Telfair" (John Nash quote).

Daniels measured 6'6.0 195 with a 6'11 wingspan at the combine. Albeit much lighter, thats about the same frame as SGs Klay Thompson and Jalen Brown & a size smaller then SFs Wiggins or Tatum. Again if I'm putting together a team, I want versatility on D with guys being able to reasonably guard the spots bigger and smaller then them. I see Daniels as being able to slide onto PGs and SFs but lacking the size to slide onto PFs, which for me makes him a 2.

STOMP

Noel is what Duren is if he doesn't develop those sporadic flashes of skill.

Standing Reach:
Dyson Daniels 8'9
Klay Thompson 8'7.5
Jaylen Brown 8'6.5
Other two didn't measure

I'm not saying no to a guy because he can guard 3 positions well instead of 4.

 

[blazerfan11]

Noel is what Duren is if he doesn't develop those sporadic flashes of skill.

Standing Reach:
Dyson Daniels 8'9
Klay Thompson 8'7.5
Jaylen Brown 8'6.5
Other two didn't measure

I'm not saying no to a guy because he can guard 3 positions well instead of 4.

What's Dyson Daniels' worst-case comparison?

 

[illmatic99]

What's Dyson Daniels' worst-case comparison?

exum.

i like daniels but my problem with drafting him at 7 is his potentially low ceiling. does anybody think daniels can be an all star?

 

[Natebishop3]

exum.

i like daniels but my problem with drafting him at 7 is his potentially low ceiling. does anybody think daniels can be an all star?

We would have to be the best team in the league. To me he’s Draymond. I don’t think Draymond is ever an all star if he’s not drafted by Golden State. Daniels is an intangibles guy.

 

[Mediocre Man]

What's Dyson Daniels' worst-case comparison?

Portland sucks at D which starts with the Bigs. I'm fine with disagreeing with you and anyone else on this. Nurk is a liability on D mostly because he can't switch onto smaller players which teams regularly exploit.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular Season
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season

STOMP

sucking on D absolutely DOES NOT start with the bigs

 

[STOMP]

Noel is what Duren is if he doesn't develop those sporadic flashes of skill.

No he's not... you're better then this. Noel has been continuously injured for his entire professional career (outside his lone season at UK). He's missed so many games each and every season, it's open to speculation that he's never played a game in the league at the level of health that made him the top overall pick. Also he's 50 pounds lighter then Duren and has less length. Other then those minor issues, spot on

Standing Reach:
Dyson Daniels 8'9
Klay Thompson 8'7.5
Jaylen Brown 8'6.5
Other two didn't measure

I'm not saying no to a guy because he can guard 3 positions well instead of 4.

At 195, Daniels weighs as much as Lillard. The guys you're siting (Thompson and Brown) are quality SGs and he's coming into the league far lighter then they did. He's not SF sized, which was my counter to your claim. Thus far, he hasn't shown a reliable J. Oh boy, lets draft the second coming of Ben McLemore!!! (I can make a ridiculous analogy that degrades your guy too).

STOMP

 

[BonesJones]

No he's not... you're better then this. Noel has been continuously injured for his entire professional career (outside his lone season at UK). He's missed so many games each and every season, it's open to speculation that he's never played a game in the league at the level of health that made him the top overall pick. Also he's 50 pounds lighter then Duren and has less length. Other then those minor issues, spot on


At 195, Daniels weighs as much as Lillard. The guys you're siting (Thompson and Brown) are quality SGs and he's coming into the league far lighter then they did. He's not SF sized, which was my counter to your claim. Thus far, he hasn't shown a reliable J. Oh boy, lets draft the second coming of Ben McLemore!!! (I can make a ridiculous analogy that degrades your guy too).

STOMP

I'm comparing their play style, not their healthiness... Noel is a really good defensive big, but that's all he is. That's the only skill that I have confidence in projecting Duren as being good in, in terms of being someone who can hang and play up on the perimeter, protect the rim, and is simply a lob target offensively. That's the similarities.

Yes Duren could be more, but people thought Noel could be more too, which is the point. Injuries aren't what caused Noel to not pan out, he just wasn't skilled enough and there's a legitimate chance that that'll be the same for Duren.

Your talking about a players weight as a rookie? How much did Ant way as a rookie? How much did Giannis? Rookies normally did come in as strong as they're going to be over the course of their careers...

Daniels is bigger than guys that are considered as big SGs that have the size to play SF. He needs to add some strength, but so do a lot of rookies.

 

[Bingo Bango]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/st...k-draft-best-fit-vs-best-available-every-team

Best Fit: Duren
Best Available: Shaedon Sharpe

Must be a subscriber to read that.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Must be a subscriber to read that.

It’s over a week old

Portland needs, Duren, in their mock
Best available, Sharpe, in their mock

 

[STOMP]

I'm comparing their play style, not their healthiness... Noel is a really good defensive big, but that's all he is. That's the only skill that I have confidence in projecting Duren as being good in, in terms of being someone who can hang and play up on the perimeter, protect the rim, and is simply a lob target offensively. That's the similarities. Yes Duren could be more, but people thought Noel could be more too, which is the point. Injuries aren't what caused Noel to not pan out, he just wasn't skilled enough and there's a legitimate chance that that'll be the same for Duren.

Noel tore the ACL of his left knee in the middle of his lone year in college. Recovery didn't go as planned and he missed his entire rookie year. The same knee required surgery again in 2016. He's battled inflammation of that knee ever since which has certainly limited his ability to work out/practice and the amount weight he could carry on the court... in other words, his knee obviously hampered his development and career. This past season he played in all of 25 games, the reason repeatedly sited... his knee. It's ridiculous to claim that a guy's career arc wasn't affected when he has missed 40% of the games over the course of his pro career. He's been damaged goods the entire time. Dude hasn't averaged 25 MPG any season since 2o16 and has started less then 30% of those games he's been able to go in. Conversely, Duren has no physical dings that I'm aware of. Terrible comparison... not buying what you're selling.

Your talking about a players weight as a rookie? How much did Ant way as a rookie? How much did Giannis? Rookies normally did come in as strong as they're going to be over the course of their careers...

At 18 Duren reportedly weighs about 50 pounds more then Noel did when he was 19. These are two different body types. Generally for playing inside it helps to have the bulk to bang with the big boys. Of course it also helps not to have a bad wheel, especially if you're trying to play at a bigger weight. To answer your other questions (which you could look up yourself) Ant weighed 183 at the combine and is listed at 181 today. Giannis didn't do his combine but was listed at 190 lbs. Today, blessed with a career of relative health and not having suffered structural damage to his knees, he's listed at 243. Again, for playing inside where Noel has toiled and Duren is projected, it helps to have bulk to battle other Bigs for boards. Jalen has the prerequisite bulk, Noel never did.

Daniels is bigger than guys that are considered as big SGs that have the size to play SF. He needs to add some strength, but so do a lot of rookies.

Klay and Brown are SGs and have been SGs their entire time in the league. They weighed significantly more then Daniels when they came into the league and still do today. To say that Daniels is bigger then them is silly. Of course Brown came into the league as a physical freak while Klay already had his deadly jumper, DD has neither attribute. Klay & Brown are both smaller then the SFs they've played next to. Yes they could play SF but they could also play center and give up even more size. They don't because like Dyson, their size is that of an NBA 2 guard.

Today Dyson weighs as much as NBA PGs and his jumper is not good. I like him, but would expect it to take at least a year or two before he's a regular... in other words he's a project. Given health, Doug Christie seems an optimistic comparison of what he could become.

STOMP

 

[Predator]

Must be a subscriber to read that.

“The Blazers are in the beginning stages of a rebuild and have a void at center. Often-injured Jusuf Nurkic is entering unrestricted free agency this summer and will demand a hefty payday that will take him into his 30s. Picking his successor in Duren -- perhaps the most physically gifted big man in this class, and who brings impressive finishing prowess as well as outstanding potential as both a rim-protector and a pick-and-roll defender -- makes sense. As the youngest player in this class, he has considerable upside to grow into long-term.

If Portland wants to take a true swing on talent, drafting Sharpe, who possesses elite physical tools with his exceptional frame, length and explosiveness, to go along with dynamic perimeter-shooting ability, has the potential to reap huge dividends down the road. There was a reason Sharpe was the No. 1-ranked player in his high school class, as he has the kind of scoring instinct many teams look for in a top offensive option and plays a position every franchise looks for talent at.“

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here's Hollinger on Duren:

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Here's Hollinger on Duren:

View attachment 47959

"One position player"--I dunno, I keep hearing people saying that he might not be as big as people think. If that ends up being the case, why exactly can't he be a high-energy power forward along the lines of a Jarred Vanderbilt or a Montrezl Harrell?

Yes, I know that those comps don't scream "lottery talent". Just saying it seems silly to pigeonhole him.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

"One position player"--I dunno, I keep hearing people saying that he might not be as big as people think. If that ends up being the case, why exactly can't he be a high-energy power forward along the lines of a Jarred Vanderbilt or a Montrezl Harrell?

Yes, I know that those comps don't scream "lottery talent". Just saying it seems silly to pigeonhole him.

Hmm. It's not exactly a reassuring response to "he's a one-position player" to say "oh no, he's much shorter!"

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Hmm. It's not exactly a reassuring response to "he's a one-position player" to say "oh no, he's much shorter!"

Even at 6'10" or 6'11", could he not fulfill that same role?

Point is, if he (allegedly) has the quickness and athleticism to defend on the perimeter, why couldn't he be a 4 on a team with a decent shooter at the 5?

 

[illmatic99]

"One position player"--I dunno, I keep hearing people saying that he might not be as big as people think. If that ends up being the case, why exactly can't he be a high-energy power forward along the lines of a Jarred Vanderbilt or a Montrezl Harrell?

Yes, I know that those comps don't scream "lottery talent". Just saying it seems silly to pigeonhole him.

I dont think hes as light on his feet to defend the quicker 4s of today's nba.

 

[STOMP]

Even at 6'10" or 6'11", could he not fulfill that same role?

Looney and Robert Williams are both about 6'8 barefoot with big wingspans. Piecemealing what we have on Duren, he's taller longer and heavier then either of the starting 5s in the finals. Next comment from the peanut gallery will be is he too big?

Point is, if he (allegedly) has the quickness and athleticism to defend on the perimeter, why couldn't he be a 4 on a team with a decent shooter at the 5?

Thats part of the beauty of having a versatile Big defender... they can fit with a variety of other players.

STOMP