All things Jalen Duren

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If we trade down say the trade OKC goes down and we get 12 then I say there going to target Duran. By they doing this there saying Duran is not worth taking at 7. Something to pay attention to.
 
Noel tore the ACL of his left knee in the middle of his lone year in college. Recovery didn't go as planned and he missed his entire rookie year. The same knee required surgery again in 2016. He's battled inflammation of that knee ever since which has certainly limited his ability to work out/practice and the amount weight he could carry on the court... in other words, his knee obviously hampered his development and career. This past season he played in all of 25 games, the reason repeatedly sited... his knee. It's ridiculous to claim that a guy's career arc wasn't affected when he has missed 40% of the games over the course of his pro career. He's been damaged goods the entire time. Dude hasn't averaged 25 MPG any season since 2o16 and has started less then 30% of those games he's been able to go in. Conversely, Duren has no physical dings that I'm aware of. Terrible comparison... not buying what you're selling.


At 18 Duren reportedly weighs about 50 pounds more then Noel did when he was 19. These are two different body types. Generally for playing inside it helps to have the bulk to bang with the big boys. Of course it also helps not to have a bad wheel, especially if you're trying to play at a bigger weight. To answer your other questions (which you could look up yourself) Ant weighed 183 at the combine and is listed at 181 today. Giannis didn't do his combine but was listed at 190 lbs. Today, blessed with a career of relative health and not having suffered structural damage to his knees, he's listed at 243. Again, for playing inside where Noel has toiled and Duren is projected, it helps to have bulk to battle other Bigs for boards. Jalen has the prerequisite bulk, Noel never did.


Klay and Brown are SGs and have been SGs their entire time in the league. They weighed significantly more then Daniels when they came into the league and still do today. To say that Daniels is bigger then them is silly. Of course Brown came into the league as a physical freak while Klay already had his deadly jumper, DD has neither attribute. Klay & Brown are both smaller then the SFs they've played next to. Yes they could play SF but they could also play center and give up even more size. They don't because like Dyson, their size is that of an NBA 2 guard.

Today Dyson weighs as much as NBA PGs and his jumper is not good. I like him, but would expect it to take at least a year or two before he's a regular... in other words he's a project. Given health, Doug Christie seems an optimistic comparison of what he could become.

STOMP
Knee injuries stopped Noel from learning how to shoot or dribble? Those are some of the few skills you can work on during rehab. Noel didn't have the necessary skill. That has nothing to do with his injuries. He didn't end up unable to shoot because of a knee injury. Also, I never compared their weight. I'm talking about projected skillset verse what they showed before the league. You keep nitpicking parts of this comparison that I never brought up. I'll make sure never to compare any players around since you could nitpick differences with any comparison. Never said he was exactly like Noel, and there are a lot of other comparisons of bigs that showed flashes of skill that people thought they'd be able to fulfill and they didn't. But you're so focused on arguing about Noel's knee that you're missing the entire point.

You still don't realize that you can gain weight? You realize theirs players that are skinnier than Jaylen Brown and Klay Thompson that play a forward spot, right? You also realize you can gain weight, right??? Where in the world did I say Daniels weighed more then them? He has more length than them. That's the most important physical attribute when trying to determining positions. Weight is secondary.

Also, weight doesn't equal strength. If Dyson Daniels was fatter, you'd be happier with him as a prospect? If he was fatter, then would he be able to play the 3? Better get him on the Glen Davis diet then since a weight room can't do anything... Saying someone can't be a 3 in the NBA because they weigh 195 pounds coming into the league is so silly to me. He has one of the lowest body fat percentages in the draft class. Too bad he didn't eat more burgers the past couple of years, then he could be a small forward.
 
"One position player"--I dunno, I keep hearing people saying that he might not be as big as people think. If that ends up being the case, why exactly can't he be a high-energy power forward along the lines of a Jarred Vanderbilt or a Montrezl Harrell?

Yes, I know that those comps don't scream "lottery talent". Just saying it seems silly to pigeonhole him.
He's not anywhere near the perimeter defender that Vanderbilt is and Harrell doesn't really play the 4 and struggles in the playoffs even when he's playing the 5. And even then, he's still a backup.
 
Knee injuries stopped Noel from learning how to shoot or dribble?
to be fair, Noel raised his FT% about 10% over the course of his career. But no, when you're rehabbing you're not practicing your skills let alone playing. Good grief, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has had their knees scoped and my procedures went well. You certainly aren't jumping up and down on the court practicing your J if your knee is continually swelling up throughout your career. Without a doubt his knee injuries curtailed his career. I'm not nitpicking, I'm pointing at the obvious gaping holes in your nonsensical comparison that an 18 year old physical specimen brimming with potential is somehow comparable to a guy who rode a stationary bike for most of his career.

Also, weight doesn't equal strength. If Dyson Daniels was fatter, you'd be happier with him as a prospect?
It somehow gets even more ridiculous. Scoring Guard Jaylen Brown came into the league at 223 pounds & 5% body fat. Scoring Guard Klay Thompson came into the league at 206 pounds & 8% body fat. Dyson Daniels just measured 190 pounds & 5% body fat. None of them are or were fat, they have different frames. The two All Star Scoring Guards are stockier (both now listed at 220) then Dyson which typically equates to being stronger. It certainly helps to have some ballast/extra muscle mass if you're trying to slow down bigger players. If I'm putting together a team, I want my SG to be able to guard 1-3, my SF 2-4, my PF 3-5. If my SF is 190 pounds, thats an area of concern for the above stated reasons. At 19, Dyson's body is still changing but NBA Wings typically don't put on 20 pounds during their career. Maybe he'll be the exception, but at this point he's Scoring Guard sized. Yes he could play other positions, but body type wise thats where he best projects guarding guys in the near future. I don't even get why this is contentious. In today's positionless game, all I'm contending is that while I want switchable defenders, I don't want a 190 lb Daniels trying to guard PFs on the regular yet somehow those are fighting words for you. Good grief man.

STOMP
 
to be fair, Noel raised his FT% about 10% over the course of his career. But no, when you're rehabbing you're not practicing your skills let alone playing. Good grief, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has had their knees scoped and my procedures went well. You certainly aren't jumping up and down on the court practicing your J if your knee is continually swelling up throughout your career. Without a doubt his knee injuries curtailed his career. I'm not nitpicking, I'm pointing at the obvious gaping holes in your nonsensical comparison that an 18 year old physical specimen brimming with potential is somehow comparable to a guy who rode a stationary bike for most of his career.


It somehow gets even more ridiculous. Scoring Guard Jaylen Brown came into the league at 223 pounds & 5% body fat. Scoring Guard Klay Thompson came into the league at 206 pounds & 8% body fat. Dyson Daniels just measured 190 pounds & 5% body fat. None of them are or were fat, they have different frames. The two All Star Scoring Guards are stockier (both now listed at 220) then Dyson which typically equates to being stronger. It certainly helps to have some ballast/extra muscle mass if you're trying to slow down bigger players. If I'm putting together a team, I want my SG to be able to guard 1-3, my SF 2-4, my PF 3-5. If my SF is 190 pounds, thats an area of concern for the above stated reasons. At 19, Dyson's body is still changing but NBA Wings typically don't put on 20 pounds during their career. Maybe he'll be the exception, but at this point he's Scoring Guard sized. Yes he could play other positions, but body type wise thats where he best projects guarding guys in the near future. I don't even get why this is contentious. In today's positionless game, all I'm contending is that while I want switchable defenders, I don't want a 190 lb Daniels trying to guard PFs on the regular yet somehow those are fighting words for you. Good grief man.

STOMP
When it come to Daniels, it doesn’t even matter how much he weighs. He got the length and the IQ to play really good defense. In todays nba, the 4 play on the perimeter a lot more. Daniels just have to stay in front of them, which he does pretty well. In todays nba they don’t take advantage of smaller player as much as they should. Even then Daniels know what he’s doing
 
to be fair, Noel raised his FT% about 10% over the course of his career. But no, when you're rehabbing you're not practicing your skills let alone playing. Good grief, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has had their knees scoped and my procedures went well. You certainly aren't jumping up and down on the court practicing your J if your knee is continually swelling up throughout your career. Without a doubt his knee injuries curtailed his career. I'm not nitpicking, I'm pointing at the obvious gaping holes in your nonsensical comparison that an 18 year old physical specimen brimming with potential is somehow comparable to a guy who rode a stationary bike for most of his career.


It somehow gets even more ridiculous. Scoring Guard Jaylen Brown came into the league at 223 pounds & 5% body fat. Scoring Guard Klay Thompson came into the league at 206 pounds & 8% body fat. Dyson Daniels just measured 190 pounds & 5% body fat. None of them are or were fat, they have different frames. The two All Star Scoring Guards are stockier (both now listed at 220) then Dyson which typically equates to being stronger. It certainly helps to have some ballast/extra muscle mass if you're trying to slow down bigger players. If I'm putting together a team, I want my SG to be able to guard 1-3, my SF 2-4, my PF 3-5. If my SF is 190 pounds, thats an area of concern for the above stated reasons. At 19, Dyson's body is still changing but NBA Wings typically don't put on 20 pounds during their career. Maybe he'll be the exception, but at this point he's Scoring Guard sized. Yes he could play other positions, but body type wise thats where he best projects guarding guys in the near future. I don't even get why this is contentious. In today's positionless game, all I'm contending is that while I want switchable defenders, I don't want a 190 lb Daniels trying to guard PFs on the regular yet somehow those are fighting words for you. Good grief man.

STOMP
One of the best defensive wings of the modern NBA was Bruce Bowen, who was listed at 6'7", 185.

If you can defend, you can defend, weight be damned.
 
One of the best defensive wings of the modern NBA was Bruce Bowen, who was listed at 6'7", 185.

If you can defend, you can defend, weight be damned.
You're making my point with a good size comparison too. Here's a highlight tape where Bowen goes up against wings Vince Carter, Josh Howard, Michael Finley, Ray Allen, Wally Szczerbiak & Carmelo



Bowen was great at defending 1-3, on offense he was very limited though. Again, I like Dyson and would be happy if they added him though his jumper is a real concern. However, thinking that he's going to be a SF means he'd be switching onto Bigs. IMO size wise the best place for him to find initial success in the league is at SG where he would be matched up against PGs-SFs on D. He'd be nice at the top of a zone harrassing ball handlers with his length and quickness, much less so along the baseline contesting drives to the hoop where his lack of bulk and hops would limit his effectiveness. Again, I want my SF to be able to switch onto Bigs on D. I'm fine with anyone taking issue with that.

STOMP
 
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I've seen Duren drop in mock drafts this morning to 17 & 18. I wonder if teams he's worked out with have been unimpressed? To go from top 5 to out of the lottery something had to have happened. I also wonder if there's an injury teams are finding out about... <shrug>
 
Duren is a stud on D. A big who can move and has some motor. Not only is his shot not broken, he looks like a guy with aggression near the hoop … unusual for recent Blazers players. I wouldn’t mind that. The Blazer back-ups who played this year just look lesser than Duren.

Daniels at 6’6” / 6’7.5” in shoes with wingspan / noted for defense, floaters in the paint, use of both hands going both directions, passing, bball IQ, multi-skilled, positional diversity …. Yes, he defends 1-3 … looks like he loves the game.

Murray is noted for having a fairly complete game for a draftee … high floor … Daniels IMHO is the next guy in line for that distinction. His frame looks good to put on strength. I see a core player of a Blazers’ starting line-up by year 3 with immediate contributions.

If the Blazers get either one at 7, then this draft is :smiley-beerchug: for me. If they can trade up to 5 and get Grant in the deal, (for Murray or in trade for OG), then any complaints I had about the returns from the deadline trades are gone.

[Murray > Daniels > Sharpe > Duren > Sochan > Dieng]
 
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I love everything i have seen from Duren. Loved all of his interviews as well. He's gonna be a player for a lot of years.
 
There’s been almost nothing on Duren since he worked out in Portland. Who else did he workout for?
 
According to this: https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-draft-workout-tracker-where-are-prospects-going/

No one. I would assume that hoopshype is just wrong but maybe not. Maybe we gave him a promise of some kind.

Well isn't that interesting. I think it was @Mediocre Man who mentioned that the Blazers liked Duren's workout and I had someone tell me something similar. I can't imagine they would take him at #7, but if they traded the pick and got one down a little further, perhaps they are able to get him there.
 
Looking at various draft sites and Twitter….

Duren has only had one pre-draft workout: Portland
could be that he has promise, but not necessarily from Portland. We worked out quite a few guys in the week after working out Duren. Doesn't seem logical for us to continue to bring guys in who are slotted above him on the big boards if we already committed to him. Agents would be pissed if this happened.

there was a lot of noise of the Spurs being enamored by him. Could be them at 9. And they do sorta secretive workouts quite often. They even worked out Sharpe this year and that info wasn't anywhere until he admitted it himself.
 
If the Spurs and that is a big IF since just speculative but if they do then maybe the Blazers should consider him cause the Spurs have a pretty good history of scouting and drafting -- not perfect but damn steady
 
I forget if this was posted earlier in this thread, but Larry Brown (Chauncey's coach for the title in Detroit) weighed in on Jalen Duren.

https://nypost.com/2022/06/12/larry-brown-jalen-duren-is-a-worth-nba-center-prospect/

Jalen-Duren.jpg
 
Really nice find TBpup. My favorite of many glowing quotes from Larry Brown in your link...

“Jalen probably moves his feet better than any big kid I’ve been around,’’ added Brown, the Knicks’ coach in the 2005-06 season. “With so much switching in the NBA, he’s really capable of doing that. If he doesn’t play, he cheers for the team, doesn’t sulk.’’

STOMP
 
Really nice find TBpup. My favorite of many glowing quotes from Larry Brown in your link...

“Jalen probably moves his feet better than any big kid I’ve been around,’’ added Brown, the Knicks’ coach in the 2005-06 season. “With so much switching in the NBA, he’s really capable of doing that. If he doesn’t play, he cheers for the team, doesn’t sulk.’’

STOMP

His lateral movement is a major strength - you can run a super big 4/5 with Nurk and Duren (@PF)
 
His lateral movement is a major strength - you can run a super big 4/5 with Nurk and Duren (@PF)

This is what I was trying to point out about Duren, he can play the 4 with Nurk. Kid can pass and is a willing passer. Defend, rebound and protect the rim while working on jump shot, which he has shown in college.
 
This is what I was trying to point out about Duren, he can play the 4 with Nurk. Kid can pass and is a willing passer. Defend, rebound and protect the rim while working on jump shot, which he has shown in college.
We need a shooter at the four. Nurk is already not a consistent shooter.
 
We need a shooter at the four. Nurk is already not a consistent shooter.
First off, Nurk is an UFA. Second, the championship Warriors typically don't start shooters at the 4 or 5. It's not ideal to have anyone playing who can't shoot, but obviously you can still be an effective offense by featuring multiple good threats elsewhere. It helps the offense flow if the guys who aren't shooting threats excel at other important facets like finishing around the hoop, passing, screening & offensive boards.

Looking at his mechanics & overall athleticism, I see no reason Duren couldn't develop into a good mid-range threat in time. Looking at this roster, I also see no reason they should be fooling themselves that they're close to contending. Duren, like most of the guys projected around where Portland is picking, is going to take some time.

STOMP
 
We need a shooter at the four. Nurk is already not a consistent shooter.
New Orleans was starting Jaxson Hayes and Jonas Valenciunas at the end of their season.
Valenciunas can shoot 3-pointers at around 36 for the season, but barely took any in the playoffs (1 per game) and wasn't making them anyway.
 
New Orleans was starting Jaxson Hayes and Jonas Valenciunas at the end of their season.
Valenciunas can shoot 3-pointers at around 36 for the season, but barely took any in the playoffs (1 per game) and wasn't making them anyway.
I don’t know if that’s really a reason why we should do it.
 
Some similar traits to D Jordan. Does he fit the style being played in the NBA?
 

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