All-time All-star snub list

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It's really sad that Rod never made an All-Star team. Drazen might have if he hadn't died. Miller plays a position that is probably the hardest to get a nod of recognition. There are so many good point guards in the league. Miller is quality, but it would be hard to get a spot over Nash, Paul, Deron Williams, etc.
 
Obviously, I'm an Andre Miller supporter, but he has never averaged more than 17 PPG in his career. That hurts his chances of being all all-star right there. It pretty much rules him out in the fan voting - that plus playing on some bad teams in small markets.

His best year was 2001-02 when he lead the league in assists at 10.9 per game, scored 16.5 PPG and had a PER of 21.8. His AST% that year was an insane 49.8% - one of the highest in NBA history. Unfortunately, Cleveland was pretty bad in those pre-Lebron years. They went 29-53 that year and it would be very rare for anyone to make an all-star team playing for a team with that record.

You could make an argument that Miller had better stats than Baron Davis (who made the East all-star squad along with Iverson and Kidd than year), but the Hornets went 44-38 that year. So, Davis made it and Miller didn't.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Obviously, I'm an Andre Miller supporter, but he has never averaged more than 17 PPG in his career.
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What's Jason Kidd's best year? Steve Nash's?

Derek Harper used to be king of that list. How quickly they forget.
 
Obviously, I'm an Andre Miller supporter, but he has never averaged more than 17 PPG in his career.
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Since when is it the job of a point guard to score?
 
Vinyard said:
Since when is it the job of a point guard to score?
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Isiah Thomas 19.2 ppg
Magic Johnson 19.5 ppg
Gary Payton averaged around 20+ ppg for 8 seasons from 1995-96 to 2002-2003.

Lots of point guards have scored. Points tend to draw the attention of the fans and coaches.
 
Stockton is a great example of a PG makin' the all-star game without scoring a lot right? Can't remember but I think he averaged in the mid-teens point wise.
 
"THE" HCP said:
Stockton is a great example of a PG makin' the all-star game without scoring a lot right? Can't remember but I think he averaged in the mid-teens point wise.
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I just looked it up. Around 13 ppg. Kidd also averages around 13 ppg for his career.
 
Billups is a career 15 and 5.6 guy, and he's made a few all-star teams. You don't have to be a scorer to be a good point guard (but you should at least be a good threat to score).
 
Vinyard said:
Since when is it the job of a point guard to score?
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Since when did I say it was?

This thread is about making or not making the all-star game. There are usually two, and occasionally three PGs per team. Usually, at least one of hose is selected by fan voting. Fans vote for gaudy scoring stats and recognizable names. Andre Miller has never had either of those in his favor. Guys who don't score 20 PPG (unless they are a household name who was a big scorer in the past, but are now on the downside of their career - like Allen Iverson and Tracy McGrady) rarely get voted in by the fans. That makes it less likely there will be a roster spot available for a more deserving, but lower scoring PG.

Never scoring more then 17 PPG in his career, combined on playing on some bad teams, hurt Andre Miller' chances of making an all-star team. That was, and is, my point.

BNM
 
You know what's a funny stat?

Jason Kidd and John Stockton are arguably the two best passing point guards in history.

Combined Championships: zero
 
Natebishop3 said:
You know what's a funny stat?

Jason Kidd and John Stockton are arguably the two best passing point guards in history.

Combined Championships: zero
Click to expand...

You need teammates to win. George Gervin, Dominique and soon Durrant were and are some of the most prolific scorers and could never win a ring.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
What's Jason Kidd's best year? Steve Nash's?
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People are taking my scoring comment out of context. Here's the full quote:

"Obviously, I'm an Andre Miller supporter, but he has never averaged more than 17 PPG in his career. That hurts his chances of being all all-star right there. It pretty much rules him out in the fan voting - that plus playing on some bad teams in small markets.

Jason Kidd's career high is 18.7 PPG. He played for New Jersey (big market) and his team made the NBA finals that year (good team).

Steve Nash is currently averaging 18.5 PPG and has also averaged 18.8 and 18.6. His teams also won 54 and 61 games in his highest scoring years.

I didn't say never scoring more than 17 PPG made it impossible or a PG to make the all-star team (although both of your examples have scored more than that), I said that, combined with playing on a bad team in a small market makes it improbable.

BNM
 
01-02 Miller averaged 17 PPG and 12 APG.

He led the league in assists and still didn't make the all-star team.
 
"THE" HCP said:
Stockton is a great example of a PG makin' the all-star game without scoring a lot right? Can't remember but I think he averaged in the mid-teens point wise.
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He averaged > 17 PPG three times in his career (barely), but he also averaged in the mid-teens in assists in his prime and he played on a team that regularly won 50+ games.

BNM
 
Fez "The Situation" Bush said:
01-02 Miller averaged 17 PPG and 12 APG.

He led the league in assists and still didn't make the all-star team.
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His career high is 10.9 APG in 2001-02 - not sure where you got the 12 APG number, but it's wrong. He also averaged 16.5 PPG that year, not 17. I mentioned both of those facts in my original post - along with the fact that he played on a team that only won 29 games that year.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
He averaged > 17 PPG three times in his career (barely), but he also averaged in the mid-teens in assists in his prime and he played on a team that regularly won 50+ games.

BNM
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Trust me, I have mad respect for Stocktons game, I was just pointing out that other parts of your game can get you into an all-star game other then scoring.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Billups is a career 15 and 5.6 guy, and he's made a few all-star teams. You don't have to be a scorer to be a good point guard (but you should at least be a good threat to score).
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But his best years are 19.2 and 18.5 - and he played on teams that won a lot of games - including an NBA title.

Can anyone find an example in the last 30 years of a PG who:

Averaged 17.0 PPG or less that season
Who played on a team with a losing record
Who was not already a multi-time all-star
Who made the all-star team

BNM
 
"THE" HCP said:
Trust me, I have mad respect for Stocktons game, I was just pointing out that other parts of your game can get you into an all-star game other then scoring.
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And you are correct. But, I never said you HAD to score a lot to make the all-star team - just that it helps. If you don't score a lot, aren't already a household name and play on a losing team your chances are pretty much zero. That was, and is, my point.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
But his best years are 19.2 and 18.5 - and he played on teams that won a lot of games - including an NBA title.

Can anyone find an example in the last 30 years of a PG who:

Averaged 17.0 PPG or less that season
Who played on a team with a losing record
Who was not already a multi-time all-star
Who made the all-star team

BNM
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Like I said, it's a difficult position to make it to the ASG. Even WITH gaudy numbers, it's hard. Look at D Will or Baron Davis. Those guys consistently put up good numbers, but this is D Will's first ASG and Davis hasn't made it in years.
 
Isiah Thomas 19.2 ppg
Magic Johnson 19.5 ppg
Gary Payton averaged around 20+ ppg for 8 seasons from 1995-96 to 2002-2003.

Lots of point guards have scored. Points tend to draw the attention of the fans and coaches.
Click to expand...

It's a plus when a point guard can score. BNM made it sound as if Miller never made the All-Star game because he wasn't a better scorer.

Jason Kidd's career high is 18.7 PPG. He played for New Jersey (big market)
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Big market? Really?
 
Vinyard said:
It's a plus when a point guard can score. BNM made it sound as if Miller never made the All-Star game because he wasn't a better scorer.



Big market? Really?
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Isn't NJ just a suburb of NYC? :devilwink:
 
Vinyard said:
It's a plus when a point guard can score. BNM made it sound as if Miller never made the All-Star game because he wasn't a better scorer.
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I think that's a reasonable belief. Scoring, while important, is generally overvalued by pretty much everyone. Not just by fans. I think Dave Berri at Wages of Wins (while I often disagree with him on various ideas/evaluations) has made a pretty compelling case that NBA salaries are tied disproportionately to PPG output, rather than overall efficiency.
 
Just a tunnel away. I thought you lived there homie!
 
Vinyard said:
It's a plus when a point guard can score. BNM made it sound as if Miller never made the All-Star game because he wasn't a better scorer.
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No I didn't. You took one sentence fragment out of context and jumped to an erroneous conclusion. The complete paragraph was:

"Obviously, I'm an Andre Miller supporter, but he has never averaged more than 17 PPG in his career. That hurts his chances of being all all-star right there. It pretty much rules him out in the fan voting - that plus playing on some bad teams in small markets.

I didn't say it made it impossible to make an all-star team. But, unspectacular scoring hurts in the fan voting and when combined with a losing record and and a small market, greatly reduces the chances of making an all-star team.

Vinyard said:
Big market? Really?
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Yes, actually it is. It's part of the much larger NYC metropolitan area market.

BNM
 
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