Allen Crabbe signs offer sheet with Nets (1 Viewer)

[jlprk]

Why do you guys think Neil Olshey made the decision to match? Yes he's the GM I understand that but Neil doesn't own this team and for damn sure a decision like this is not decided by Olshey himself.

Maybe Olshey voted against re signing him. But instead the overall staff and OF COURSE Paul Allen wanted this...Remember Olshey is waaaaaaay better at drafting

Paul Allen pays Olshey to make these decisions. Olshey gives his own picks many years to become adequate because they reflect upon his draft reputation.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I guess I get to be the ray of sunshine.

We were talked about as "bringing everyone back" and "continuity" and "building on 2nd round" and all that, but I think you're overlooking couple of things...
1) Being in a monthlong shooting slump is not optimal, but does anyone think Crabbe forgot how to shoot 3s? He was paid as a premium, young, 3-and-D guy. Crabbe is still one of the better defenders on the team--especially in a backcourt with CJ and Dame, and he's just entering what should be his prime. Do you really think a slump is the first step in age-or o injury-related regression? Or that the "league has figured him out"?

It's awfully #hottake to take a slump during the first month of a team coming together as confirmation bias and assign blame. Sure, I'd love to see him shooting 45% from 3 while anchoring a lockdown defense.

2) I want to bring up Turner's impact on what used to be Crabbe's role, but I haven't watched/re-watched enough to see how the situations are different (or not).

As for his contract--a) we weren't bidding against ourselves (as it seems was the case with Turner), b) as stated, let's figure out how much interest there is on Dec 15 before calling him "untradeable" and c) it seems that, of all the contracts tossed around this offseason, Crabbe's is probably the average in reasonable (Dame and CJ no-brainers, Ezeli and Leonard questionable?)

I have little doubt that, if the sucktitude continues, more than just Crabbe will be on the block. And that no one on this team (even Turner) is untradeable.

 

[BonesJones]

That would benefit the fan's interests, but we're not represented at the table when the CBA is being discussed. Might as well petition the sun to rise in the West.

btw, here's your original take prior to Portland matching...



this is the bed you advocated management making...

STOMP

I say have the salary cap count towards gaurunteed money, while raising the total amount players can make.

 

[TBpup]

Crabbe sucks. Never should've matched that ridiculous contract.

I don't know that he sucks but he certainly is not living up to the money he is getting paid. What really sucks is that Crabbe/Turner are getting over $140 million and neither is good enough to be a starter.

 

[WillG]

Tim Quarterman. Would there be much of a drop off if he replaced Crabbe? .
Would certainly bring better focus and defense. . .

(along with value and less ridiculous hair)

 

[PDXFonz]

Inevitably they would pay us back for that G Wallace trade at some point.

 

[Five Second Violation]

I think we could've let Crabbe go for nothing and would not be seeing any noticeable impact on the court whatsoever. Other than his streaky outside shooting, he brings literally nothing to the table and he arguably makes us worse defensively. Furthermore, Layman and Quarterman could very well be replacing his production this year for less than 1/10 the cost.

 

[Sinobas]

I guess I get to be the ray of sunshine.

We were talked about as "bringing everyone back" and "continuity" and "building on 2nd round" and all that, but I think you're overlooking couple of things...
1) Being in a monthlong shooting slump is not optimal, but does anyone think Crabbe forgot how to shoot 3s? He was paid as a premium, young, 3-and-D guy. Crabbe is still one of the better defenders on the team--especially in a backcourt with CJ and Dame, and he's just entering what should be his prime. Do you really think a slump is the first step in age-or o injury-related regression? Or that the "league has figured him out"?

It's awfully #hottake to take a slump during the first month of a team coming together as confirmation bias and assign blame. Sure, I'd love to see him shooting 45% from 3 while anchoring a lockdown defense.

2) I want to bring up Turner's impact on what used to be Crabbe's role, but I haven't watched/re-watched enough to see how the situations are different (or not).

As for his contract--a) we weren't bidding against ourselves (as it seems was the case with Turner), b) as stated, let's figure out how much interest there is on Dec 15 before calling him "untradeable" and c) it seems that, of all the contracts tossed around this offseason, Crabbe's is probably the average in reasonable (Dame and CJ no-brainers, Ezeli and Leonard questionable?)

I have little doubt that, if the sucktitude continues, more than just Crabbe will be on the block. And that no one on this team (even Turner) is untradeable.

Even if Crabbe were shooting 45% from 3, that would only come out to 1 more point per game on average. So the production just isn't there for a guy making 18 mil.

Of coruse, the his mediocre shooting has been frustrating in the face of this big contract, and the fact that most of his looks are wide open.

This guy is earning more than Paul Geroge and Kawhi Leonard.

 

[HailBlazers]

I think we could've let Crabbe go for nothing and would not be seeing any noticeable impact on the court whatsoever. Other than his streaky outside shooting, he brings literally nothing to the table and he arguably makes us worse defensively.

That's really too bad. Last year he was solid on defense. Terry Stotts effect coupled with big money has him focused on his offensive game and neglecting the D. If he ever wants to live up to the contract he needs to focus on becoming a two way player stat.

 

[BrianFromWA]

This guy is earning more than Paul Geroge and Kawhi Leonard.

And Lillard got a bigger contract than everyone except Mike Conley in NBA history.
I'm sure that if Olshey could've paid Crabbe money to George or Leonard he would. He couldn't. It fit a need (3-and-D wing), it kept an asset, it paid (literally) market value to keep a player entering his prime. Again, if he's not shooting lights-out from 3 and playing awesome D, he's probably overpaid even with respect to this FA class. Since our D is garbage right now, and he's not shooting 45%, it's easy to trash. And as I said before, if you didn't like the deal (and saying that, even if he was hitting 45% from 3, you'd still think his production wasn't there, means you probably NEVER will like it), it's easy to use a below-average month for confirmation bias. If you thought it was a reach, but on par for market value, then you probably aren't sweating a slump. Are you suggesting that, to "increase his production" to make it more commensurate with his contract status, we should take shots away from CJ and Dame? Or that he's the linchpin of suckness on D?
Most people thought Batum was overpaid. He warmed up to the deal, played better as he hit his prime, and was moved for assets.

 

[e_blazer]

The most important thing about re-signing Crabbe, from the standpoint a GM of a small-market team like Portland, is keeping a young asset. How many free agents worth a damn would Olshey be able to attract here with the same money if he had let Crabbe walk? How many decent SGs of any size are there in the league these days? Was his price more than you'd like to pay for a backup SG? Sure, but that was literally the market price offered for Crabbe by the Nets. Beyond that, look at the options he gives Olshey to make moves in the future. Next summer, if a great opportunity comes along to move CJ for a talented big man, Olshey can make a play knowing that he's got Turner, Crabbe and Quarterman in the stable who can play the SG position. OTOH, if Olshey wants to keep CJ and Crabbe starts producing at the clip he was last spring, he's a valuable asset to be used in trade. Looking at the Crabbe deal from the standpoint of point production just misses the point of the move.

 

[Nate]

I've been wanting Crabbe to be our starting shooting guard since Wes went down. I don't see any reason why CJ shouldn't be our sixth man.

 

[HailBlazers]

I've been wanting Crabbe to be our starting shooting guard since Wes went down. I don't see any reason why CJ shouldn't be our sixth man.

Agreed.

 

[Nate]

If CJ can't accept a bench role for the good of the team, he can go fuck himself, before, during, and after we trade him.

 

[jlprk]

Contrary to his local reputation, Crabbe has never been a consistent lights-out shooter or defender. He is inconsistent, unable to set up his own shots, and dependent upon Lillard to set him up in called plays. The rest of the league knows he's just a decoy at the end of the game to distract from Lillard, so they offered triple his worth, thinking that would do it, but Olshey is a brick wall of stubbornness about his own draft picks (and draftees obtained on draft day, like Crabbe). Every other GM knows enough to get his team several big guards, but ours doesn't, so as our only tall guard, Crabbe is crucial to our defense.

The Stotts history is a tale of two season halves. Until last season we always took a tail dive, post-All Star break. But in the second half of last season, a surf wave of consistency carried each inconsistent player including Crabbe. Fans expected that to automatically continue at the start of this season, but that's not the Stotts history of two season halves. As usual, this season will have a swing upward, with Crabbe passively carried on the wave. I don't know whether the team will then keep winning or swing down. The homer defense--all is temporary--is true but irrelevant.

 

[STOMP]

If CJ can't accept a bench role for the good of the team, he can go fuck himself, before, during, and after we trade him.

lol Nate, it's all about Crabbe! Long live Martell II!

I wasn't alone in advocating letting NJ have him. Alan has shown some talent but sure hasn't demonstrated he's worth starter money let alone the All Star dollars they offered. I'm starting to wish there was someone else pulling the levers.

got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away, know when to run

STOMP

 

[KingSpeed]

If CJ can't accept a bench role for the good of the team, he can go fuck himself, before, during, and after we trade him.

CJ IS our sixth man. He starts with Dame getting him some open shots and then 6 minutes, he goes to the bench and returns in the second quarter to star with the second unit. He starts AND plays like a sixth man. I have no problem with that.

 

[STOMP]

Most people thought Batum was overpaid. He warmed up to the deal, played better as he hit his prime, and was moved for assets.

I'm recalling posters being far more upset at the manner at which Batum's negotiations settled on a contract then the figure itself. I know I stated at the time his deal was a good deal for Portland and it was. I also thought Neil got the short end of the stick on the deal that sent him away, and it's looking that way as Nic is doing very well again vs scrub moments from Vonleh.

STOMP

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I'm a Batum fan.

That is all.

FAMS.

 

[TBpup]

It's tough to tell which contract is worse....Crabbe's or Turner's. The sad part is, both of them are on the Blazers roster.

 

[Sinobas]

And Lillard got a bigger contract than everyone except Mike Conley in NBA history.
I'm sure that if Olshey could've paid Crabbe money to George or Leonard he would. He couldn't. It fit a need (3-and-D wing), it kept an asset, it paid (literally) market value to keep a player entering his prime. Again, if he's not shooting lights-out from 3 and playing awesome D, he's probably overpaid even with respect to this FA class. Since our D is garbage right now, and he's not shooting 45%, it's easy to trash. And as I said before, if you didn't like the deal (and saying that, even if he was hitting 45% from 3, you'd still think his production wasn't there, means you probably NEVER will like it), it's easy to use a below-average month for confirmation bias. If you thought it was a reach, but on par for market value, then you probably aren't sweating a slump. Are you suggesting that, to "increase his production" to make it more commensurate with his contract status, we should take shots away from CJ and Dame? Or that he's the linchpin of suckness on D?
Most people thought Batum was overpaid. He warmed up to the deal, played better as he hit his prime, and was moved for assets.

Lillard is a completly different issue, he's our franchise player and we paid him the max, that was a no brainer.

Also, I think "Market Value" is a rich word for this situation. You're taking about two parents fighting over the last scuffed up Furby at Christmas time. If you paid $500 bucks for one you might go home and console yourself on the fact that you paid the "market value" for it, but you still paid $500 for a little toy.

The offers that were made this offseason were due to sudden large increase in the cap, and the Nets got desparate and threw a lot of money at him. An average bench player like Crabbe isn't worth 19 mil a year no matter how you slice and dice it.

Some people around here don't seem to think that matters, but ask yourself this. If you had a roster full of average players, would you rather they making 8.5 mil a year, or 20 mil a year each?

 

[Nate]

lol Nate, it's all about Crabbe! Long live Martell II!

I wasn't alone in advocating letting NJ have him. Alan has shown some talent but sure hasn't demonstrated he's worth starter money let alone the All Star dollars they offered. I'm starting to wish there was someone else pulling the levers.

got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away, know when to run

STOMP

It doesn't matter what he's making. He would play better starting next to lillard. And I think I team would do better.

 

[STOMP]

It doesn't matter what he's making. He would play better starting next to lillard. And I think I team would do better.

One can believe that the moon is made of cheese, we just don't have much data supporting that. As a starter next to Lillard, AC has shot 65-162 (40%) averaging 9.6 ppg. Coming off the bench he's shot 44%

what he's making is what the franchise no longer has in cap space to sign more productive players. Believe me I'd love him to be worthy of a starting spot allowing Portland to bring CJ off the bench. He's had opportunities to make his case...

STOMP

 

[Boob-No-More]

I've been wanting Crabbe to be our starting shooting guard since Wes went down. I don't see any reason why CJ shouldn't be our sixth man.

Because right now, Allen Crabbe flat out sucks. If he was our starter, we'd go from having one of the best starting SGs in the league to having the worst. Crabbe's PER is 8.9. He's supposed to be a great shooter, but Meyers Leonard, who has been in a shooting slump for most of the year has a higher 3FG% than Crabbe. Crabbe has played twice as many minutes as Meyers, but has only made 4 more 3-pointers for the season. Crabbe is a 1-dimensional shooter who can't shoot.

He brings nothing else to the table. He is the worst rebounder on the team and one of the worst passers (only Ed Davis, Maurice Harkless and Noah Vonleh have a lower AST% than Crabbe). He has the lowest WS (-0.2) and WS/48 (-0.050) on the team and his defense sucks. His DRtg of 116 is the worst on a team full of bad defenders. He is a 3 and D guy who can't make an open 3-pointer and can't/doesn't guard anybody.

He needs to pull his head out of his ass and start earning his contract. If not, he shouldn't even be in the rotation, much less starting.

BNM

 

[ripcityboy]

Of all the guys who I thought would try to earn his contract it would be Crabbe. He'd always been a max effort guy who tried to get the most of his potential. But now he's doing his best "Jacob Ellsbury in mid-July" impression. He needs to get his butt in gear pronto.

 

[jlprk]

He needs to pull his head out of his ass and start earning his contract.

He needs to get his butt in gear pronto.

His effort is as high as ever. So is his talent. As a catch and shoot (i.e. nondribbling) 2nd-round pick, he has always had to depend upon others to set him up.

This board judges Blazer players by their best games last season, not by their averages over the season. As I posted, he looks good when the team looks good, and bad when bad. He was dependently riding high late in the season, only because the team was.

Contrary to his local reputation, Crabbe has never been a consistent lights-out shooter or defender. He is inconsistent, unable to set up his own shots, and dependent upon Lillard to set him up in called plays...But in the second half of last season, a surf wave of consistency carried each inconsistent player including Crabbe. Fans expected that to automatically continue at the start of this season, but that's not the Stotts history of two season halves. As usual, this season will have a swing upward, with Crabbe passively carried on the wave.

 

[chzbrgr]

I've been wanting Crabbe to be our starting shooting guard since Wes went down. I don't see any reason why CJ shouldn't be our sixth man.

You're

If CJ can't accept a bench role for the good of the team, he can go fuck himself, before, during, and after we trade him.

Fucking

It doesn't matter what he's making. He would play better starting next to lillard. And I think I team would do better.

Nuts

 

[Blazinaway]

You're

Fucking

Nuts

LOL, great post. The guy has been garbage and this other poster is nut in thinking Crabbe he should be starting - is he hoping for the lottery? Can't fathom that thought process, unreal

 

[Boob-No-More]

This board judges Blazer players by their best games last season, not by their averages over the season. As I posted, he looks good when the team looks good, and bad when bad. He was dependently riding high late in the season, only because the team was.

I don't speak for the entire board, but I don't judge Allen Crabbe by his best games. Right now, I'd be happy if he was anywhere close to his averages over the entire 81 games he played last season.

He's not, and it 's not even close. In spite of playing 2 MPG more this season, his scoring and overall productivity is down. All of his shooting percentages are down, as are almost all of his advanced states. He's gone from a decent 6th/7th man type to a guy who doesn't even deserve to be part of the regular rotation.

His production has regressed to the point where it's almost identical to what it was his second season - when he averaged 13 MPG in 51 games.

Talk of his starting is fucking ridiculous. Until he can prove he's capable to producing better than he did his second season, his playing time should also revert to what it was at that time - 13 MPG with a shit load of DNP-CDs.

Playing time should be earned and Crabbe isn't earning his - or his paycheck.

BNM

 

[BonesJones]

I don't speak for the entire board, but I don't judge Allen Crabbe by his best games. Right now, I'd be happy if he was anywhere close to his averages over the entire 81 games he played last season.

He's not, and it 's not even close. In spite of playing 2 MPG more this season, his scoring and overall productivity is down. All of his shooting percentages are down, as are almost all of his advanced states. He's gone from a decent 6th/7th man type to a guy who doesn't even deserve to be part of the regular rotation.

His production has regressed to the point where it's almost identical to what it was his second season - when he averaged 13 MPG in 51 games.

Talk of his starting is fucking ridiculous. Until he can prove he's capable to producing better than he did his second season, his playing time should also revert to what it was at that time - 13 MPG with a shit load of DNP-CDs.

Playing time should be earned and Crabbe isn't earning his - or his paycheck.

BNM

Turners earning his paycheck more than Crabbe right now.

Layman needs some of Crabbe's minutes for a few games to see if he's a better option.