OT America hits peak anti-intellectualism: Majority of Republicans now think college is bad

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Trump did say he loves the uneducated and for good reason they got him elected.
 
barfo said:
So if one of them decides to go to Evergreen, say, you wouldn't try to suggest they reconsider?

I'm just asking because if you believe that most colleges are net negatives, then it seems like you'd want to try to steer your offspring away from them.

barfo
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If they've done the research and determined that the offerings at Evergreen are the best options for them, I'm going to support their choice.

And I never said that most colleges are net negatives. What I'm saying is that colleges that only encourage one side of the ideological spectrum are less beneficial than those that encourage open discussion and debate from all voices. Intellectual enrichment is still valuable, even when accompanied with overwhelming socio-political bias.
 
k9xkdrrokj9z.jpg
 
On a serious note I'll say this. Education is not merely the things we learn in school. Or about degrees or diplomas. Its really about the things we learn on a daily basis, keeping our minds open and aware.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
If they've done the research and determined that the offerings at Evergreen are the best options for them, I'm going to support their choice.

And I never said that most colleges are net negatives. What I'm saying is that colleges that only encourage one side of the ideological spectrum are less beneficial than those that encourage open discussion and debate from all voices. Intellectual enrichment is still valuable, even when accompanied with overwhelming socio-political bias.
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Ok, fair enough. I thought you were weighing in on the side of "Republicans think that colleges and universities have a negative impact on the country."

barfo
 
PtldPlatypus said:
If they've done the research and determined that the offerings at Evergreen are the best options for them, I'm going to support their choice.

And I never said that most colleges are net negatives. What I'm saying is that colleges that only encourage one side of the ideological spectrum are less beneficial than those that encourage open discussion and debate from all voices. Intellectual enrichment is still valuable, even when accompanied with overwhelming socio-political bias.
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I agree. The argument, the discussion is where one really learns and stretches the mind.
 
barfo said:
Ok, fair enough. I thought you were weighing in on the side of "Republicans think that colleges and universities have a negative impact on the country."

barfo
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I abhor the ultra-liberal pontification that is prevalent on most college campuses, but I personally don't think it outweighs the value of the education one can receive even in that kind of environment. But since the question (I went back and re-read the OP) was about whether or not people think colleges "have a negative effect on the way things are going in this country", if one believes that rampant liberalism and political correctness are having a negative impact on the country, it's certainly difficult to answer no to that question as phrased. My point from the beginning in this thread has simply been that having that belief isn't inherently anti-intellectual, and doesn't necessarily reflect a disdain for higher education, as the thread title suggests.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I abhor the ultra-liberal pontification that is prevalent on most college campuses, but I personally don't think it outweighs the value of the education one can receive even in that kind of environment. But since the question (I went back and re-read the OP) was about whether or not people think colleges "have a negative effect on the way things are going in this country", if one believes that rampant liberalism and political correctness are having a negative impact on the country, it's certainly difficult to answer no to that question as phrased. My point from the beginning in this thread has simply been that having that belief isn't inherently anti-intellectual, and doesn't necessarily reflect a disdain for higher education, as the thread title suggests.
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I woulda just writed "yur dumb;
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I abhor the ultra-liberal pontification that is prevalent on most college campuses, but I personally don't think it outweighs the value of the education one can receive even in that kind of environment. But since the question (I went back and re-read the OP) was about whether or not people think colleges "have a negative effect on the way things are going in this country", if one believes that rampant liberalism and political correctness are having a negative impact on the country, it's certainly difficult to answer no to that question as phrased. My point from the beginning in this thread has simply been that having that belief isn't inherently anti-intellectual, and doesn't necessarily reflect a disdain for higher education, as the thread title suggests.
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I understand your main point and agree with it - it isn't necessarily anti-intellectual to think colleges are having a negative effect. For instance, if they were colluding with the Russians to undermine our democracy, that would mean they were having a negative effect. One could still support education and oppose that.

However, I think one has to interpret the question as asking whether colleges have a NET negative effect, not simply at least one identifiable negative effect. After all, the alternative is 'positive effect on the country', not 'no negative effects on the country'. Colleges use up land that could be used for other purposes? Negative effect on the country!

Of course some people do think that 'rampant liberalism' is a negative that outweighs all positives that a college might have. But if you aren't in that camp, I don't think a 'negative' answer makes sense.

barfo
 
SlyPokerDog said:
k9xkdrrokj9z.jpg
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Ok, that's not too good. It's still better than McCarran airport's parking garage. There is level 1
1m
2
2m
3
3m


Just as tons of people wouldn't even notice the 1th instead of 1st...TONS of people don't realize they parked on 2m and not 2 until they can't find their car. They think they're being cute by using the word mezzanine but they just confuse people.
 
barfo said:
However, I think one has to interpret the question as asking whether colleges have a NET negative effect, not simply at least one identifiable negative effect. After all, the alternative is 'positive effect on the country', not 'no negative effects on the country'.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I think there is pretty obvious ambiguity of interpretation of the question, and honestly I think it is likely intentional.
 
My advice....don't send your kids to UC Berkley or the University of Oregon if they are wanting a conservative environment..send them to a place like the University of Nebraska.....if they study agriculture at Oregon State, there won't be a lot of political science on the program....there are examples of out of control liberal flaunting in education...Eugene's full of it unfortunately...really lacks balance...OSU not so much
 
PtldPlatypus said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I think there is pretty obvious ambiguity of interpretation of the question, and honestly I think it is likely intentional.
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Ok. It might be intentional, don't know. In any case, according to your interpretation, I would answer in the negative also, as I do not believe that colleges have only positive and no negative effects.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Ok. It might be intentional, don't know. In any case, according to your interpretation, I would answer in the negative also, as I do not believe that colleges have only positive and no negative effects.

barfo
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Also, I think the primary ambiguity lies in the portion of the question relating to universities' effect on "the way things are going in this country". The vagueness allows the respondent to self-define which "things" in this country the universities are affecting, and the respondent's personal weight of the importance of each of those "things", even considering your interpretation of "net effect".

It's a poorly-worded question if one wants precision of response, but well-worded if one desires reinforce the "uneducated red-stater" stereotype.
 
Coincidentally, my wife (college educated) and I (community college educated) were have a similar discussion very recently. While I hold education in extremely high esteem, I can't help but feel (and my wife agrees to a large extent) that in this day and age, a college degree is overrated in many cases. One only has to look at the number of recent college graduates who are working minimum wage jobs because they can't find one in their chosen field (while carrying obscene student debt). The jobs they want just aren't there or the competition is too great. I guess what I'm saying is that some people are too impressed with the hype of that piece of paper, as if it is some sort of automatic admission ticket to success. And colleges encourage this kind of delusion because it pays their bills. I'm not going to argue intellectual versus anti intellectual. I just think colleges put far too much emphasis on the extraneous bullshit (the majority of electives) and not enough on the actual field of study. Consequently, graduates are set up for disappointment, rather than prepared to meet the challenges of life in their preferred professions. That just breeds even more cynicism and further undercuts the public's opinion of higher education. And for whatever it is worth, community colleges are the most underrated and overlooked educational resources in this country.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Coincidentally, my wife (college educated) and I (community college educated) were have a similar discussion very recently. While I hold education in extremely high esteem, I can't help but feel (and my wife agrees to a large extent) that in this day and age, a college degree is overrated in many cases. One only has to look at the number of recent college graduates who are working minimum wage jobs because they can't find one in their chosen field (while carrying obscene student debt). The jobs they want just aren't there or the competition is too great. I guess what I'm saying is that some people are too impressed with the hype of that piece of paper, as if it is some sort of automatic admission ticket to success. And colleges encourage this kind of delusion because it pays their bills. I'm not going to argue intellectual versus anti intellectual. I just think colleges put far too much emphasis on the extraneous bullshit (the majority of electives) and not enough on the actual field of study. Consequently, graduates are set up for disappointment, rather than prepared to meet the challenges of life in their preferred professions. That just breeds even more cynicism and further undercuts the public's opinion of higher education. And for whatever it is worth, community colleges are the most underrated and overlooked educational resources in this country.
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great post....I also went to community colleges and was a young father as a student....took my time. The degree never defined my success but letters of recommendation did help me get where I wanted to go.....problem is also that kids waste the college years on something they have no interest in or talent for too often...then they graduate and teach....to me grades 1-12 are where we drop the ball....teaching life skills and learning tools to make the most of college once they get there.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Intellectual enrichment is still valuable, even when accompanied with overwhelming socio-political bias.
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I believe the overwhelming political bias is totally unnecessary, perhaps even dishonest.
Both of my kids are Berkeley grads. And the school then was far worse than when I was at the school. Now is another story yet.

Looking back, I preferred the non college sources the best. The US Navy's Fire Control school and IBM Corporate Management school were way better than any University.
 
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MarAzul said:
I think you are probably right.
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Yep.
I definitely learned much more, and paid much less, at Umpqua Community College than i did at Oregon State. Kind of sad actually.
 
theprunetang said:
Yep.
I definitely learned much more, and paid much less, at Umpqua Community College than i did at Oregon State. Kind of sad actually.
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I sort of lucked out in a back door sort of way at OR State. I was suppose to get an athletic scholarship, but it didn't happen, but I got a room, signed up to go to classes and fed. Never officially enrolled, so no way to avoid the draft. But It didn't cost me anything!

Had a hell of a time getting credit for the classes though. But Pete Newell at Cal knew a guy that got it fixed for me though. Didn't cost me anything a Cal either, but then, I had nothing, so it was a match.
 
riverman said:
My advice....don't send your kids to UC Berkley or the University of Oregon if they are wanting a conservative environment..send them to a place like the University of Nebraska.....if they study agriculture at Oregon State, there won't be a lot of political science on the program....there are examples of out of control liberal flaunting in education...Eugene's full of it unfortunately...really lacks balance...OSU not so much
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Having graduated from OSU in 09, I can tell you it's pretty frickin liberal. I experiences the whole gamut. Took like 5 ethnic studies classes, saw protests, took womens studies.... i work downtown now, the liberalness of downtown and OSU was pretty on par.
 
theprunetang said:
Yep.
I definitely learned much more, and paid much less, at Umpqua Community College than i did at Oregon State. Kind of sad actually.
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It all depends on your professors. I had teachers that were amazing and taught me a lot. I had professors that were so pompous, never had a job in the real world, wrote some article in some journal nobody cares about and thought they were the shit. They usually wanted us to fail and didn't give a fuck about us.

But, community college can't give you a bachelor's and 300 to 400 level classes are the most important for certain industries like accounting. Which is what I did.
 
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