An argument for Andre Miller

[Nikolokolus]

Taken from John Schumann's power rankings at NBA.com
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/powerrankings/11/30/week5/index.html

The Blazers' defense got scorched over the weekend, allowing the Grizzlies and Jazz to shoot 57 percent from the field. In the 10 games Andre Miller has come off the bench, Portland's defensive rating is 105.2, as opposed to 93.4 in the nine games he started.

Discuss.

 

[B-Roy]

Taken from John Schumann's power rankings at NBA.com
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/powerrankings/11/30/week5/index.html


Discuss.

Look at the opponents. The only decent opponent in the 9 game stretch where Andre started were the Hawks. In the other 10? Warriors, Rockets, Rockets, Hawks, Denver, OKC, Jazz.

Memphis was an embarrassment though.

 

[hasoos]

Look at the opponents. The only decent opponent in the 9 game stretch where Andre started were the Hawks. In the other 10? Warriors, Rockets, Rockets, Hawks, Denver, OKC, Jazz.

Memphis was an embarrassment though.

Well here is the choice. We can keep on trucking with what is not working, or we can try something to change it up. I take it you think Steve Blake is superior?

 

[B-Roy]

Well here is the choice. We can keep on trucking with what is not working, or we can try something to change it up. I take it you think Steve Blake is superior?

Nope. Just saying that stat is flawed.

I'm pretty angry that Blake is getting more minutes than Andre, but I don't care that he starts.

 

[MARIS61]

Well here is the choice. We can keep on trucking with what is not working, or we can try something to change it up. I take it you think Steve Blake is superior?

At team defense?

Absolutely.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I'm pretty angry that Blake is getting more minutes than Andre, but I don't care that he starts.

I do. By starting Blake with Oden, Oden's entire first half is wasted on the offensive end.

In the last two games, Oden has played a total of ONE FUCKING MINUTE* with Andre Miller in the first half. The result - ZERO points in the first half against Memphis and four points in the first half against the Jazz.

This after Oden made these comments about Andre Miller after scoring a career high 24 points against Chicago one week ago:

"He's a big breath of fresh air for me," Oden said. "When he comes into the game, he's like, 'G.O., we are going to run a play for you so you can try to get the other big man in foul trouble.' That definitely puts a big smile on my face. I turned my head and had a big smile."

Andre Miller makes Greg Oden better, WAY FUCKING BETTER. Steve Blake turns Greg Oden into a total non-factor on offense. That alone justifies starting Miller over Blake.

Bench Blake. Start Miller.

BNM

* 1:01 to be exact

 

[B-Roy]

I do. By starting Blake with Oden, Oden's entire first half is wasted on the offensive end.

In the last two games, Oden has played a total of ONE FUCKING MINUTE* with Andre Miller in the first half. The result - ZERO points in the first half against Memphis and four points in the first half against the Jazz.

The last two games have been anomalies. Andre Miller only played 6 horrid minutes against the Jazz anyways, so using that as a data point is pretty stupid. Oden usually plays with Miller at the beginning of the second until one of them has to leave. (Usually Oden for fouls)

 

[RoyToy]

The writer didn't even bring up the fact the Blazers are 7-2 with miller starting, 5-5 when he's not.

 

[yakbladder]

The writer didn't even bring up the fact the Blazers are 7-2 with miller starting, 5-5 when he's not.

Perhaps you missed the earlier part of this thread:

The only decent opponent in the 9 game stretch where Andre started were the Hawks. In the other 10? Warriors, Rockets, Rockets, Hawks, Denver, OKC, Jazz.

 

[RoyToy]

Perhaps you missed the earlier part of this thread:

SA isn't a decent opponent?

 

[Boob-No-More]

The last two games have been anomalies. Andre Miller only played 6 horrid minutes against the Jazz anyways, so using that as a data point is pretty stupid. Oden usually plays with Miller at the beginning of the second until one of them has to leave. (Usually Oden for fouls)

Nope. Nate has been taking Greg out at the 6 minute mark of the 1st quarter regardless of how few fouls he has and then doesn't put him back in until the 3 - 4 minutes into the 2nd quartert.

All six of Miller's minutes againt Utah were in the 1st half, but not a single one with Oden. Nate automatically yanks Greg at the 6 minute mark, and that's when he inserted Miller - but not for Blake, he brought him in for Webster.

Blake played like absolute and total shit for the entire game against Memphis (I honestly don't remember ever seeing him play worse), and not much better against Utah. Yet, Miller is the one who get benched for one bad 6 minute stretch.

BNM

 

[MARIS61]

SA isn't a decent opponent?

If by decent you mean old, tired, unimaginative and stale, then yes they are decent.

 

[hasoos]

I do. By starting Blake with Oden, Oden's entire first half is wasted on the offensive end.

In the last two games, Oden has played a total of ONE FUCKING MINUTE* with Andre Miller in the first half. The result - ZERO points in the first half against Memphis and four points in the first half against the Jazz.

This after Oden made these comments about Andre Miller after scoring a career high 24 points against Chicago one week ago:

"He's a big breath of fresh air for me," Oden said. "When he comes into the game, he's like, 'G.O., we are going to run a play for you so you can try to get the other big man in foul trouble.' That definitely puts a big smile on my face. I turned my head and had a big smile."

Andre Miller makes Greg Oden better, WAY FUCKING BETTER. Steve Blake turns Greg Oden into a total non-factor on offense. That alone justifies starting Miller over Blake.

Bench Blake. Start Miller.

BNM

* 1:01 to be exact

This. I have been harping on the fact that several Blazers are not sharing the ball with Oden during the games, and it is flat out blatant "freeze out". The facts are that Greg Odens effective field goal percentage is .628 right now. That means if they bothered to pass him the ball when he was open, he would score most of the time. But they don't. They freeze him out. Blake will stare right at him open and reverse the ball. It happens all the time.

 

[RoyToy]

If by decent you mean old, tired, unimaginative and stale, then yes they are decent.

The Blazers have the tired/unimaginative/stale part down right now pretty well themselves.

 

[B-Roy]

Nope. Nate has been taking Greg out at the 6 minute mark of the 1st quarter regardless of how few fouls he has and then doesn't put him back in until the 3 - 4 minutes into the 2nd quartert.

He's with Miller for at least 4-5 minutes most games.

All six of Miller's minutes againt Utah were in the 1st half, but not a single one with Oden. Nate automatically yanks Greg at the 6 minute mark, and that's when he inserted Miller - but not for Blake, he brought him in for Webster.

And Miller would have played more minutes, which would have led to playing time with Oden, hand he not made 2 turnovers, and missed 4 consecutive shots. Nate then said after the game that he felt Andre wasn't moving well.

Blake played like absolute and total shit for the entire game against Memphis (I honestly don't remember ever seeing him play worse), and not much better against Utah. Yet, Miller is the one who get benched for one bad 6 minute stretch.

True, but regardless, you're letting two games dictate your opinion on the season. You're also working on the lie that "Blake doesn't get Oden the ball". In the Memphis game, they did go to Oden in the 1st, but he went 0/3. In the Utah game, they also went to Oden in the 1st, but he went 0/2. I doubt he missed those shots because of bad entry passes.

 

[Denny Crane]

I do. By starting Blake with Oden, Oden's entire first half is wasted on the offensive end.

In the last two games, Oden has played a total of ONE FUCKING MINUTE* with Andre Miller in the first half. The result - ZERO points in the first half against Memphis and four points in the first half against the Jazz.

This after Oden made these comments about Andre Miller after scoring a career high 24 points against Chicago one week ago:

"He's a big breath of fresh air for me," Oden said. "When he comes into the game, he's like, 'G.O., we are going to run a play for you so you can try to get the other big man in foul trouble.' That definitely puts a big smile on my face. I turned my head and had a big smile."

Andre Miller makes Greg Oden better, WAY FUCKING BETTER. Steve Blake turns Greg Oden into a total non-factor on offense. That alone justifies starting Miller over Blake.

Bench Blake. Start Miller.

BNM

* 1:01 to be exact

In 10 games this season, Oden's finished with 5 or 6 fouls (only once). In another 6 he's finished with 4.

Taking him out after 6 minutes, Nate's managed to have Oden able to finish games.

I would think that if Oden starts finishing games with 2 or 3 total fouls, we'll see his minutes increased accordingly.

 

[BBert]

I'm pretty angry that Blake is getting more minutes than Andre, but I don't care that he starts.

I do. Miller should start. He should start because Oden starts and Andre Miller is the best thing on this team for Greg Oden. And Greg Oden is the best thing on this team for our playoff chances.

As for Roy with Miller, Roy is famous for taking it easy in first quarters in seasons past, supposedly to get his teammates going and to save himself for the fourth quarter. So...I don't see how starting Miller with Roy should be a big problem. Start with running some Miller-Oden and Miller-Aldridge. Work Roy into the game gradually, as he likes to do. Pass Roy the ball off some screens or cutting to the hoop -- Oden can pass.

Nate's rotations this year =

 

[B-Roy]

I do. Miller should start. He should start because Oden starts and Andre Miller is the best thing on this team for Greg Oden. And Greg Oden is the best thing on this team for our playoff chances.

Andre Miller also equals less shots for Roy and Aldridge.

Unless people here want Oden to become the 1st option...

 

[blue32]

Andre Miller also equals less shots for Roy and Aldridge.

Unless people here want Oden to become the 1st option...

That's just because its 1 on 1 offense that we run. nobody else is moving...

 

[BBert]

I do. By starting Blake with Oden, Oden's entire first half is wasted on the offensive end.

In the last two games, Oden has played a total of ONE FUCKING MINUTE* with Andre Miller in the first half. The result - ZERO points in the first half against Memphis and four points in the first half against the Jazz.

This after Oden made these comments about Andre Miller after scoring a career high 24 points against Chicago one week ago:

"He's a big breath of fresh air for me," Oden said. "When he comes into the game, he's like, 'G.O., we are going to run a play for you so you can try to get the other big man in foul trouble.' That definitely puts a big smile on my face. I turned my head and had a big smile."

Andre Miller makes Greg Oden better, WAY FUCKING BETTER. Steve Blake turns Greg Oden into a total non-factor on offense. That alone justifies starting Miller over Blake.

Bench Blake. Start Miller.

BNM

* 1:01 to be exact

I guess had I read down to your (right on the money) post, I wouldn't have made mine. You make me feel superfluous.

 

[BBert]

Andre Miller also equals less shots for Roy and Aldridge.

Unless people here want Oden to become the 1st option...

Well, I don't think that has to be the case. The stats might show I'm wrong, but it has been my understanding the past two seasons that Roy doesn't shoot that much in the first quarter anyway. Miller needs to focus on setting up his teammates -- it's unfortunate that in Nate's inflexible system, the PG is expected to be a three point specialist. Miller should establish Greg and LaMarcus early while Roy is feeling out the competition and 'saving' himself for the fourth quarter. Also, if the team would just push the ball more and more effectively, something Miller is great at, there will be more shots per game for Roy to share with LaMarcus and Greg. And yeah, a guy who shoots over 60% fromt he field should get more shots than he's currently getting, despite the effect it may have on Roy's ego.

 

[Boob-No-More]

He's with Miller for at least 4-5 minutes most games.

He should be with him a minimum of 24 MPG - and least half of those in the first half. But, it will never happen with Blake starting and Nate automatically yanking Oden - no matter what - at the 6 minute mark.

And Miller would have played more minutes, which would have led to playing time with Oden, hand he not made 2 turnovers, and missed 4 consecutive shots. Nate then said after the game that he felt Andre wasn't moving well.

Did you not see how absolutey awful Blake played in the Memphis game? He actually had a negative EFF for the game, but still played 23:30. He missed every shot and every FT he attempted, did not make one decent entry pass into the low post, made costly turn overs that lead to fast break lay-ups for Memphis when he didn't get back on defense. Yet, it's Miller who gets benched for one similar six minute stretch of play.

True, but regardless, you're letting two games dictate your opinion on the season. You're also working on the lie that "Blake doesn't get Oden the ball". In the Memphis game, they did go to Oden in the 1st, but he went 0/3. In the Utah game, they also went to Oden in the 1st, but he went 0/2. I doubt he missed those shots because of bad entry passes.

Not just two games. Every minute Greg Oden plays with Steve Blake is a waste of Oden on offense. 2 shots in a quarter isn't enough. The passes Miller gets to Greg result in easy baskets and dunks. Blake RARELY gets Oden the ball in the low post, and when he does, Oden is covered. In the Memphis game, Blake had the ball in the left corner and Oden was WIDE FUCKING OPEN, I mean no a Memphis player in site, on the left block right in front of Blake. The crowd was going crazy as Blake held the ball for a full four seconds - until Oden was covered and then Blake passed him the ball. That was one of the two FG attempts Oden got in that first quarter. If Blake would have passed him the ball immediately, Oden would have had an uncontested dunk. Instead, he missed a tough, contested shot.

This is the difference between Andre Miller and Steve Blake. When Miller seems the big man open, he zips him the ball without hesitation. Blake holds onto it and and usually passes it back around the perimeter. If he does pass it in to Oden, it's after the defense has long since recovered and Greg is no longer in position for an easy score.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Andre Miller also equals less shots for Roy and Aldridge.

Unless people here want Oden to become the 1st option...

Bull fucking shit. Who hits Aldridge in stride on the fast break for easy dunks. Hint: it's NOT Steve Blake. Miller is capable of pushing the pace - which means MORE shots for everyone. Blake can't lead a fast break to save his life.

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

He's better.

End thread

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Yes, exactly at BNM said - Andre pushing the tempo equals an increase in pace (I believe we are still 29th out of 30) which increases shot attempts which means more shot attempts all around.

 

[PapaG]

Bull fucking shit. Who hits Aldridge in stride on the fast break for easy dunks. Hint: it's NOT Steve Blake. Miller is capable of pushing the pace - which means MORE shots for everyone. Blake can't lead a fast break to save his life.

BNM

This is the type of congenial and reasoned debate that makes this place an oasis of calmness in an ocean of Blazer angst.

 

[Luther]

I do. By starting Blake with Oden, Oden's entire first half is wasted on the offensive end.

In the last two games, Oden has played a total of ONE FUCKING MINUTE* with Andre Miller in the first half. The result - ZERO points in the first half against Memphis and four points in the first half against the Jazz.

This after Oden made these comments about Andre Miller after scoring a career high 24 points against Chicago one week ago:

"He's a big breath of fresh air for me," Oden said. "When he comes into the game, he's like, 'G.O., we are going to run a play for you so you can try to get the other big man in foul trouble.' That definitely puts a big smile on my face. I turned my head and had a big smile."

Andre Miller makes Greg Oden better, WAY FUCKING BETTER. Steve Blake turns Greg Oden into a total non-factor on offense. That alone justifies starting Miller over Blake.

Bench Blake. Start Miller.

BNM

* 1:01 to be exact

Yea this is a sign of a coach who has his head so far up his own ass he PLAYS STEVE BLAKE OVER ANDRE MILLER..

 

[KingSpeed]

I do. By starting Blake with Oden, Oden's entire first half is wasted on the offensive end.

In the last two games, Oden has played a total of ONE FUCKING MINUTE* with Andre Miller in the first half. The result - ZERO points in the first half against Memphis and four points in the first half against the Jazz.

This after Oden made these comments about Andre Miller after scoring a career high 24 points against Chicago one week ago:

"He's a big breath of fresh air for me," Oden said. "When he comes into the game, he's like, 'G.O., we are going to run a play for you so you can try to get the other big man in foul trouble.' That definitely puts a big smile on my face. I turned my head and had a big smile."

Andre Miller makes Greg Oden better, WAY FUCKING BETTER. Steve Blake turns Greg Oden into a total non-factor on offense. That alone justifies starting Miller over Blake.

Bench Blake. Start Miller.

BNM

* 1:01 to be exact

Vs Minnesota- Oden makes 7 shots. They are wide open dunks. Guess who set those up and passed him the ball? Answer: Steve Blake

That third quarter stretch was the ONLY time all SEASON that I've seen one of our players consistently go to Oden. Not only did Blake set up Oden for easy dunks but he often posted Oden MULTIPLE TIMES in a single possession. Apparently, a lot of the "Blazer fans" were watching the Ducks during this quarter, but if you saw it, you would know that your argument holds no water.

Hate him all you want. It is false to say that Blake doesn't get the ball to Oden.

 

[KingSpeed]

Every minute Greg Oden plays with Steve Blake is a waste of Oden on offense. 2 shots in a quarter isn't enough. The passes Miller gets to Greg result in easy baskets and dunks.

Bullshit. It is BLAKE's passes to Oden that end in easy dunks. Watch the games and count.