An entirely too early minutes breakdown... tear it apart

[Ed O]

and it's amazing how dramatically you misinterpret posts to launch your straw men

You posted about posters' hypothetical responses to a potential trade in a thread about minutes distribution given our current roster.

Forgive me for not reading your mind about wtf you were talking about and why it's relevant to this thread.

 

[Tince]

"Give" and "earn" aren't different in my mind, since only one person makes the determination of who plays: Billups.

Understood... The two words certainly have different meaning though.

In some organizations, the general managers/owners can more or less dictate the certain players need to play; forcing the coach to give them minutes they didn't earn. You see this on tanking teams where players are given minutes.

 

[Ed O]

Understood... The two words certainly have different meaning though.

In some organizations, the general managers/owners can more or less dictate the certain players need to play; forcing the coach to give them minutes they didn't earn. You see this on tanking teams where players are given minutes.

I 10000% understand what you're saying. Sorry for being feisty.

Let me restate that I hope that Scoop earns minutes AND that Billups gives him what he deserves (within the context of other guys available). The second part of that is what worries me, given his reluctance to play Sharpe last year until no one else was left standing.

 

[Tince]

I 10000% understand what you're saying. Sorry for being feisty.

Let me restate that I hope that Scoop earns minutes AND that Billups gives him what he deserves (within the context of other guys available). The second part of that is what worries me, given his reluctance to play Sharpe last year until no one else was left standing.

I'm with you... we're all good!

 

[Predator]

I don't really care about the breakdown over the season.

What I care about is our "playoff rotation" because that's what ultimately matters.

And that's when I say... there's not enough minutes to go around...

And frankly, that's also not the issue.

If you're willing to trot out 3 and 4-guard lineups, of course, you can make enough minutes.

The issue is we have to trot out 3 and 4-guard lineups (if we want to put our best players on the floor) because we don't have any front-court players worth giving those minutes too.

 

[THE HCP]

Someone above actually thinks Murray will play 12 minutes a game…..Bro! This kid won’t play 12 minutes ALL SEASON!

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Someone above actually thinks Murray will play 12 minutes a game…..Bro! This kid won’t play 12 minutes ALL SEASON!

I'd say "someone above" is closer to reality than you are.

 

[mook]

I don't agree that Scoot gets 22mpg just because Shae did. Scoot played 2 years in the g league against pro-sized guys playing nba-types of offensive and defensive systems. He outplayed Wembenyama in a highly publicized game. Scoot has the body of a 7 year nba vet--hell I bet the kid squats more than Dame the first time he enters the Blazers gym.

Shae entered the league after sitting out a half year of college, so his last competitive environ was high school. Amazing hops, but just not the same build as prototypical nba shooting guards quite yet.

Scoot is about as Nba ready as a top 3 pick under 20 can be (not named LeBron or Luka). Shae was hyped as "the mystery man."

If Portland only finds 22 minutes a night for Scoot, it's just malpractice.

 

[mook]

I like your numbers overall, but it just really drives home to me how urgent it is to trade Ant.

Forget about the sunk cost fallacy for a minute and just ask yourself--Imagine we didn't already have Ant. If we had the opportunity to trade forward or center depth to acquire Ant, would you recommend it?

It's the same question our GM never asked himself throughout the CJ era, because the answer is obviously no. Ant/CJ are just too duplicative of our star.

Scoot might be too, but he's different enough from those two that I'm curious to see if it can work. But we need more than 22mpg to see.

 

[Paine Tablet]

I don't agree that Scoot gets 22mpg just because Shae did. Scoot played 2 years in the g league against pro-sized guys playing nba-types of offensive and defensive systems. He outplayed Wembenyama in a highly publicized game. Scoot has the body of a 7 year nba vet--hell I bet the kid squats more than Dame the first time he enters the Blazers gym.

Shae entered the league after sitting out a half year of college, so his last competitive environ was high school. Amazing hops, but just not the same build as prototypical nba shooting guards quite yet.

Scoot is about as Nba ready as a top 3 pick under 20 can be (not named LeBron or Luka). Shae was hyped as "the mystery man."

If Portland only finds 22 minutes a night for Scoot, it's just malpractice.

3.4 TOs per game. 42.9 pct from the field. 27.9 pct from 3 point. I swear this has got to be one of the most overhyped prospects I have ever seen. How does he have a higher ceiling than Amen Thompson I do not know. Talk about Amen's broken shot, but he shot 56% from the field because he lived at the rim because he's that good.

 

[mook]

3.4 TOs per game. 42.9 pct from the field. 27.9 pct from 3 point. I swear this has got to be one of the most overhyped prospects I have ever seen. How does he have a higher ceiling than Amen Thompson I do not know.

Eh, I agree the stats are concerning. But man, the eyeball test...he just seems to have "it." I don't know what to say. He just looks like a guy who is going to be a stud.

He was always the best option on his g league team so he did everything. Seems like maybe he overdid it.

I'm expecting him to play as a third or fourth scorer and secondary ball handler on our team. Push the pace, play hard defense, drive and kick and make the simple pass, work hard on defense. If he does that, efficiency should improve a lot.

 

[Paine Tablet]

Eh, I agree the stats are concerning. But man, the eyeball test...he just seems to have "it." I don't know what to say. He just looks like a guy who is going to be a stud.

I'm expecting him to play as a third or fourth scorer and secondary ball handler on our team. Push the pace, play hard defense, drive and kick and make the simple pass, work hard on defense. If he does that, efficiency should improve a lot.

I get it because there is a lot to like. I just like taller, more athletic players who can do the same thing..

 

[Whyachi]

Someone above actually thinks Murray will play 12 minutes a game…..Bro! This kid won’t play 12 minutes ALL SEASON!

I think Murray was drafted to be an assistant coach. He's older and more experienced then most of the Blazers, and seemed very witty during the rookie press conference. Give the kid a clipboard, he can help Chauncey & Rodney figure stuff out. Oh... and might get some run in full cleanup garbage time.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I like your numbers overall, but it just really drives home to me how urgent it is to trade Ant.

Forget about the sunk cost fallacy for a minute and just ask yourself--Imagine we didn't already have Ant. If we had the opportunity to trade forward or center depth to acquire Ant, would you recommend it?

It's the same question our GM never asked himself throughout the CJ era, because the answer is obviously no. Ant/CJ are just too duplicative of our star.

Scoot might be too, but he's different enough from those two that I'm curious to see if it can work. But we need more than 22mpg to see.

If we are keeping Dame long term I agree.

The problem is what if we trade Ant now then Dame asks out in a few months? We go from 3 guys who can create with the ball to 1.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

3.4 TOs per game. 42.9 pct from the field. 27.9 pct from 3 point. I swear this has got to be one of the most overhyped prospects I have ever seen. How does he have a higher ceiling than Amen Thompson I do not know. Talk about Amen's broken shot, but he shot 56% from the field because he lived at the rim because he's that good.

Scoot played for the Washington Generals and Amen played for the Globetrotters. Pretty stupid to compare stats between the two.

 

[Natebishop3]

If we are keeping Dame long term I agree.

The problem is what if we trade Ant now then Dame asks out in a few months? We go from 3 guys who can create with the ball to 1.

What about Sharpe?

 

[wizenheimer]

If we are keeping Dame long term I agree.

The problem is what if we trade Ant now then Dame asks out in a few months? We go from 3 guys who can create with the ball to 1.

that's not a problem. If the Blazers trade Dame their immediate goal should be to suck for a couple of seasons

 

[TBpup]

Someone above actually thinks Murray will play 12 minutes a game…..Bro! This kid won’t play 12 minutes ALL SEASON!

I'll take the 'Over' on that bet all day.

 

[Natebishop3]

The roster seems extremely unbalanced right now.

PG - Dame/Scoot
SG - Ant/Sharpe/Keon
SF - Little/Knox/Rupert
PF - Watford/Murray/Walker
C - Nurk

Free Agents
Grant
Reddish
Thybulle
Eubanks
Butler Jr
Badji

Let's assume we bring back Grant, Thybulle, and Eubanks

PG - Dame/Scoot
SG - Ant/Sharpe/Keon
SF - Thybulle/Little/Knox/Rupert
PF - Grant/Watford/Murray/Walker
C - Nurk/Eubanks

We still have major size issues. We need to move the following players:

Simons
Keon
Little

We need a starting caliber small forward OR a starting quality power forward so we can move Grant to small forward. We need another center. Our rotation next season could be

Dame
Sharpe
Grant
Thybulle
Nurk
Scoot
Eubanks
Watford
Rupert?
Murray?

Just looking at this list, we need two more solid veterans in our rotation. Desperately.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I actually was thinking about that... how likely is he to give even Scoot 22 minutes a game, assuming the team doesn't have to tank again 75% of the way through the season? It'll be interesting to see.

The collective scream from this site would be deafening if Henderson doesn’t play 20+ mins a game as a third pick.
It’s either that or trade the kid. He doesn’t seem to me like the type to keep his mouth shut and just get to work. He’s already running his mouth.

 

[Natebishop3]

The collective scream from this site would be deafening if Henderson doesn’t play 20+ mins a game as a third pick.
It’s either that or trade the kid. He doesn’t seem to me like the type to keep his mouth shut and just get to work. He’s already running his mouth.

How is he running his mouth?

 

[Paine Tablet]

Scoot played for the Washington Generals and Amen played for the Globetrotters. Pretty stupid to compare stats between the two.

It's pretty stupid to compare numbers? Then why is Scoot considered an elite talent for putting up inefficient numbers in a developmental league? Why does this argument work for Scoot? Based on athletic metrics, Amen is a far superior prospect, but you are relying on G-League stats to cite the transcendent aspects of Scoot to put him ahead of Amen?

 

[Natebishop3]

It's pretty stupid to compare numbers? Then why is Scoot considered an elite talent for putting up inefficient numbers in a developmental league? Why does this argument work for Scoot? Based on athletic metrics, Amen is a far superior prospect, but you are relying on G-League stats to cite the transcendent aspects of Scoot to put him ahead of Amen?

Because Scoot was playing against grown ass men and Amen was playing against high schoolers.

 

[THE HCP]

I'd say "someone above" is closer to reality than you are.

Well I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for that dude to get on the court for TWELVE minutes a game anytime soon. You can though.

 

[PCmor7]

If we are keeping Dame long term I agree.

The problem is what if we trade Ant now then Dame asks out in a few months? We go from 3 guys who can create with the ball to 1.

Doesn't that depend on what the Blazers would get back if they traded Dame? I'd imagine they'd be aware of that issue and address it in the deal.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Well I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for that dude to get on the court for TWELVE minutes a game anytime soon. You can though.

Deductive reasoning is not your strong suit...

 

[Ed O]

Well I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for that dude to get on the court for TWELVE minutes a game anytime soon. You can though.

Jabari Walker played 11.1 minutes a game last year in 56 games, and he wasn't a first rounder.

Twelve minutes a game is definitely no guarantee, but it definitely seems possible.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Jabari Walker played 11.1 minutes a game last year in 56 games, and he wasn't a first rounder.

Twelve minutes a game is definitely no guarantee, but it definitely seems possible.

You have to take into account they tanked though. Walker doesn't play 11 minutes or in 56 games if the team is trying to win.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

It's pretty stupid to compare numbers? Then why is Scoot considered an elite talent for putting up inefficient numbers in a developmental league? Why does this argument work for Scoot? Based on athletic metrics, Amen is a far superior prospect, but you are relying on G-League stats to cite the transcendent aspects of Scoot to put him ahead of Amen?

Your comparing stats from a league of 16 year olds to an exhibition team (like the Washington Generals) that play against NBA level men and are not trying to win.

If they played a game at the YMCA would you use those stats too?

This is a case where game film and scouts reviews dwarf the usefulness of stats. Those both rank Scoot as the clear #2 or #3 prospect, and at a #1 pick level across years.

 

[Ed O]

You have to take into account they tanked though. Walker doesn't play 11 minutes or in 56 games if the team is trying to win.

Why take that into account?

The fact that a second rounder got 11.1 minutes a game over 56 minutes is... a fact. We tanked for part of the year, but lots of stuff happened last year. That Billups gave a second rounder that many minutes is a pretty good indicator that 12 minutes a game for a first rounder is within the realm of possibilities, and I don't think nitpicking the we tanked last year, or that Eubanks stayed healthy, or that it rained a hundred days makes any kind of difference to the main point.