And the name of his book is "Touched" / Paterno fired! (2 Viewers)

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Page 7 in the PDF is why Paterno was fired. He was told what happened and passed it off to someone else instead contacting of the police. Immediate grounds for firing, imo, especially after it was made public in the indictment. What a POS. I don't give a shit if he's an old frail man. Fuck him.
http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF
 
Who looks at this scandal and thinks "what does that dummy from That 70s Show think about this?"
 
If someone witnesses the rape of child and does nothing that's an entirely different animal than having a mere suspicion or hearing rumors of somebody victimizing a child.

Absolutely. JoePa is not, as I understand it, in the former camp.

McQuery testified that he witnessed a crime and did not intervene, he walked away and told his father and then his boss. In my mind that makes him a coward at the least and an accessory to a crime at the worst.

I wouldn't use the word "coward", but I agree with the general sentiment.

So when Paterno heard McQuery's account and at least the words "Sandusky," "shower and "boy" were uttered to him by a trusted associate and he didn't immediately notify the police that may not make him legally responsible, but I find it incredible that he didn't think he had a moral obligation to protect a child that was very likely assaulted in his office by a former colleague.

I don't make this leap. He didn't have first-hand knowledge, and he was using processes that were in place... without knowing with any certainty what he heard, I'm not willing to say he had any moral obligations to do more than he did.

As JoePa said, in HINDSIGHT he should have. If he had known more, his obligations (IMO) increase. He knows more now than he knew then, and for the purposes of this discussion I am erring on the side of ignorance on JoePa's part since I do not know the facts.

Maybe I'm interpreting your words wrong, but I get the impression that you are saying you'd protect a friend from charges of sexual assault if given the choice between that and turning them to protect a child that you don't know. I'm probably weird for feeling so strongly, having grown up in a household where my father was a rampant abuser (physically and verbally, but not sexually) and knowing the damage it caused (in particular to my sister) because people covered for him, but I find your point of view sickening, frankly.

You are interpreting my words wrong, yes. It's pretty pathetic that you find my point of view "sickening" to me. But whatever.

I have not been put in that situation (either of abused or of knowing an accused abuser), but I do not immediately believe the worst in people, and if I had known someone for decades and thought them a good person, I would err on the side of giving them the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't give them carte blanche, of course, but it means that it's fact-specific and that the most important thing is not "be most concerned about protecting victims"... that is like someone saying "as long as it saves one life, it's worth it". Which is bullshit. We should not shut down freeways or end alcohol consumption in order to save one life.

We cannot and should not live in a state of paranoia and perpetual distrust in order to protect potential victims. Absent this absolute commitment to prevention and cracking down, there are going to be crimes and victims. It's just part of being in a complex society, and I believe that we should punish the criminals and support the victims, but not cut a wide swath around both in the names of protecting everyone.

Ed O.
 
I think the biggest question on my mind today is WHAT THE FUCK IS MCQUEARY STILL DOING THERE? He saw the act happening, and simply walked away and let it happen. This piece of shit should have been gone long before JoPa

I also agree with this. They're treating McQueary as if he was just a kid himself, and how he was intimidated by the hierarchy of power at Penn State and it is understandable he didn't do more but tell Joe Paterno. The Mikes at least were infuriated at him this morning, but on First Take they were trying to make excuses for him not doing -more-. That's the biggest bullshit I have heard out of all the excuses the adults that aren't Sandusky. He was a 28 year old grown ass man and he just walked the fuck away. WALKED AWAY FROM WATCHING A KID GET RAPED. What the hell.


and Nik you aren't weird for feeling so strongly, people who protect their friends because "they just can't imagine it to be true and they don't have 'all the facts' do it because they don't want to think they made poor decisions themselves. If people want to slander someone they don't generally do the "well, I heard he's a pedophile/rapist/murderer" rumors. When stuff like that is said, it is probably the best to go to the police even if it is an anonymous tip. They'll do their job. I'd much rather have a friend of mine have the police come and question me than for them to sit back and do nothing.

I cannot stress how pedophiles do not stop at one victim. I'm really sorry if it makes someone uncomfortable that they might find out some horrible truths about their friends, but you hide it in the back of your mind and you are helping keep a predator on the streets.
 
Absolutely. JoePa is not, as I understand it, in the former camp.



I wouldn't use the word "coward", but I agree with the general sentiment.



I don't make this leap. He didn't have first-hand knowledge, and he was using processes that were in place... without knowing with any certainty what he heard, I'm not willing to say he had any moral obligations to do more than he did.

As JoePa said, in HINDSIGHT he should have. If he had known more, his obligations (IMO) increase. He knows more now than he knew then, and for the purposes of this discussion I am erring on the side of ignorance on JoePa's part since I do not know the facts.



You are interpreting my words wrong, yes. It's pretty pathetic that you find my point of view "sickening" to me. But whatever.

I have not been put in that situation (either of abused or of knowing an accused abuser), but I do not immediately believe the worst in people, and if I had known someone for decades and thought them a good person, I would err on the side of giving them the benefit of the doubt. That doesn't give them carte blanche, of course, but it means that it's fact-specific and that the most important thing is not "be most concerned about protecting victims"... that is like someone saying "as long as it saves one life, it's worth it". Which is bullshit. We should not shut down freeways or end alcohol consumption in order to save one life.

We cannot and should not live in a state of paranoia and perpetual distrust in order to protect potential victims. Absent this absolute commitment to prevention and cracking down, there are going to be crimes and victims. It's just part of being in a complex society, and I believe that we should punish the criminals and support the victims, but not cut a wide swath around both in the names of protecting everyone.

Ed O.

If you were told that a long time friend of yours had abused a child and this was the 2nd time you had heard such a rumor, would you still recommend that children attend his football camps?

That's what lots of people have issues with Ed. We get your point, the guy is a long time friend and you haven't seen any proof yourself that is enough to convict him. But to still enable him? To make it easier for him to get access to children?
 
I also agree with this. They're treating McQueary as if he was just a kid himself, and how he was intimidated by the hierarchy of power at Penn State and it is understandable he didn't do more but tell Joe Paterno. The Mikes at least were infuriated at him this morning, but on First Take they were trying to make excuses for him not doing -more-. That's the biggest bullshit I have heard out of all the excuses the adults that aren't Sandusky. He was a 28 year old grown ass man and he just walked the fuck away. WALKED AWAY FROM WATCHING A KID GET RAPED. What the hell.


and Nik you aren't weird for feeling so strongly, people who protect their friends because "they just can't imagine it to be true and they don't have 'all the facts' do it because they don't want to think they made poor decisions themselves. If people want to slander someone they don't generally do the "well, I heard he's a pedophile/rapist/murderer" rumors. When stuff like that is said, it is probably the best to go to the police even if it is an anonymous tip. They'll do their job. I'd much rather have a friend of mine have the police come and question me than for them to sit back and do nothing.

I cannot stress how pedophiles do not stop at one victim. I'm really sorry if it makes someone uncomfortable that they might find out some horrible truths about their friends, but you hide it in the back of your mind and you are helping keep a predator on the streets.

What I want to know is how many Graduate Assistants have gone on to get full time employment on Penn State's coaching staff during Paterno's era? If it's not many or he's the only one then you know he was rewarded with a job for keeping his mouth shut.
 
I don't know how someone doesn't, after seeing that shower scene, yell something like "WTF?!?! Stop that, you sick *&(> !" and call 9-1-1 immediately.

I think the bigger bombshell, sick as that sounds, that is going to be coming out over the next few days may answer what seems like an obvious question to 99% of us looking inside from the outside.

The word 'systemic' keeps running through my mind, and I can only hope that these new rumors aren't true. Then again, I won't be shocked, because there are a lot of similarities, structurally, between this and known pedo rings that have been uncovered over the past few decades.

McQueary grew up in State College, his dad and Sandusky are friends ... my God ... this could get to another level of horrific.
 
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Casey and Toomey rescind support for Medal of Freedom nomination for Joe Paterno

U.S. Senators Bob Casey (D-Pa.) and Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) announced today that they are rescinding their support for the nomination of former Penn State football coach Joe Paterno for the Presidential Medal of Freedom. They issued the following statement:

“In light of the recent events in State College, we are rescinding our support for the nomination of Joe Paterno for the Presidential Medal of Freedom. We hope the proper authorities will move forward with their investigation without delay. Penn State is an important institution in our commonwealth. We should turn our attention to the victims of these atrocious crimes and ensure they get the help they need. Our hearts and prayers go out to them and their families.”


http://www.whptv.com/content/Sandus...port-for-Medal-of/lnN48owJOEC7iqRo5VD9iA.cspx
 
Casey and Toomey rescind support for Medal of Freedom nomination for Joe Paterno

U.S. Senators Bob Casey (D-Pa.) and Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) announced today that they are rescinding their support for the nomination of former Penn State football coach Joe Paterno for the Presidential Medal of Freedom. They issued the following statement:

“In light of the recent events in State College, we are rescinding our support for the nomination of Joe Paterno for the Presidential Medal of Freedom. We hope the proper authorities will move forward with their investigation without delay. Penn State is an important institution in our commonwealth. We should turn our attention to the victims of these atrocious crimes and ensure they get the help they need. Our hearts and prayers go out to them and their families.”


http://www.whptv.com/content/Sandus...port-for-Medal-of/lnN48owJOEC7iqRo5VD9iA.cspx

Meanwhile, today in Beaverton, 200 kids are in daycare at the Joe Paterno Center.

These senators withdrawing their support for Paterno tells me that shit is about to blow up, big time.
 

McQueary to coach Saturday? Reasoning difficult to comprehend


STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- As of right now, Mike McQueary will coach Saturday for Penn State when it plays Nebraska. There are theories behind this, theories that delve deeply into legal stuff, and I'll address those theories in a minute. At the moment, though, I'm trying to wrap my brain around the idea that Joe Paterno got fired for doing the same thing Mike McQueary did or did not do in 2002 -- and still Mike McQueary will coach Saturday.

And I'm failing to understand, because the idea is grotesque. Mike McQueary, coaching? Saturday? This is the same Mike McQueary who claimed to have seen a young boy being sexually assaulted by former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky in a football shower in 2002, and who reacted by running away. From what we know, the attack by Jerry Sandusky -- an attack McQueary has testified to seeing -- continued in that shower.

Mike McQueary ran away.

Didn't stop it.

Mike McQueary ran to his telephone, but his first call wasn't to the police. His second call wasn't to the police, either. I could go on and on, but let's just say this: McQueary never called the police. What he did was, he called his daddy. His daddy. He told his daddy what he saw, and his daddy told McQueary to get the hell out of that building.

Presumably, Sandusky was still in the shower. And Sandusky wasn't alone.

Mike McQueary will coach for Penn State on Saturday against Nebraska. Sorry, I'm repeating myself. Still trying to wrap my brain around that fact. Still failing.

But it's not for lack of effort. I've asked Penn State people for help, but didn't get it. For the first time as interim coach, Tom Bradley met the media on Thursday -- and I asked him about McQueary. Lots of people asked Bradley about that, wanting to know if McQueary would coach on Saturday (yes), who made the decision (interim athletic director Mark Sherburne), where McQueary would perform his coaching duties (maybe the press box).

And those were all good questions. But they weren't my question. My question was, as I posed it to Bradley, "Joe Paterno got fired for not reporting what happened in 2002 to police. Mike McQueary didn't report it either. Why is Paterno not coaching Saturday but McQueary is?"

Bradley ducked the question, as he ducked most hard questions Thursday, and I don't blame him for that. This is an active criminal case, and people much higher up the food chain at Penn State are making the toughest decisions. Why is McQueary allowed to coach on Saturday? It's not for Tom Bradley to say. He might not even know.

But I have two theories, and this is not an either/or proposition. Both theories could be true. Both could be false too, but I doubt it. I mean, I really doubt it. One of these theories is true, possibly both. Here they are, and my money's on the second one:

1. Penn State is afraid to fire McQueary because that would leave the school vulnerable to a lawsuit under whistleblower laws, which protect employees like McQueary after reporting illegal activity at the workplace. Whether McQueary would be eligible for such protection, that's not for me to say. But that's one theory why he remains on the sideline, and Joe Paterno does not. McQueary reported an alleged crime to Paterno nine years ago, and circumstances emanating from that allegation have led us here. If McQueary is fired, the seeds of his dismissal would have been planted in 2002.

2. The Pennsylvania attorney general's office doesn't want to lose McQueary as a cooperative witness, should the AG decide to pursue legal charges against Paterno for not doing enough in 2002, and the AG's office has asked the school not to alienate McQueary by firing him. That's my belief, that the attorney general wants to leave the door cracked -- just barely cracked, but cracked nonetheless -- toward charges against Paterno. The charges might not stick, might not have a chance of sticking, but that wouldn't be the point. The AG's point would be: Let's send a message to everyone in this state that sex crimes must be reported, and not just to a supervisor but to the police.

That's what I believe. I believe Penn State is doing whatever it can to help the attorney general, up to and including the makeup of its coaching staff for Saturday's game. That's a crazy thought, but this is a crazy situation. It's an unfathomable allegation -- a possible child molester, once one of the most respected men in town and the heir apparent to Joe Paterno's throne at Penn State, running amok in State College. It's insane.

So is the idea Mike McQueary will coach on Saturday. It's unsightly to the eyes, inappropriate to common decency, disrespectful to Sandusky's alleged victims. It's insane that Penn State receivers coach Mike McQueary would coach Saturday, unless there's a lot more going on here than concern for Penn State's receivers.
And I hope to God there is more going on than that.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...ch-saturday-reasoning-difficult-to-comprehend
 
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If you were told that a long time friend of yours had abused a child and this was the 2nd time you had heard such a rumor, would you still recommend that children attend his football camps?

It's very fact specific. Rumors are often entirely without merit. It depends on what I thought I knew.

I am not sure how I could be friends with someone after hearing (repeatedly) that he/she was a molester. I think that I would have to have been convinced pretty thoroughly that the rumors I'd heard were untrue (by my friend, probably). If I was sure the rumors weren't true, I might very well continue to support my friend.

That's what lots of people have issues with Ed. We get your point, the guy is a long time friend and you haven't seen any proof yourself that is enough to convict him. But to still enable him? To make it easier for him to get access to children?
I understand, and it's definitely not a black-and-white issue for me.

Ed O.
 
pedo_statue_paterno_1.jpg
 
It's very fact specific. Rumors are often entirely without merit. It depends on what I thought I knew.

I am not sure how I could be friends with someone after hearing (repeatedly) that he/she was a molester. I think that I would have to have been convinced pretty thoroughly that the rumors I'd heard were untrue (by my friend, probably). If I was sure the rumors weren't true, I might very well continue to support my friend.

I understand, and it's definitely not a black-and-white issue for me.

Ed O.

My take is that people see it as a sickness and not that their friend is a monster.

That said, you have to confront a friend about something like this. You can still support him, but you can't morally ignore it.
 
It's very fact specific. Rumors are often entirely without merit. It depends on what I thought I knew.

I am not sure how I could be friends with someone after hearing (repeatedly) that he/she was a molester. I think that I would have to have been convinced pretty thoroughly that the rumors I'd heard were untrue (by my friend, probably). If I was sure the rumors weren't true, I might very well continue to support my friend.

I understand, and it's definitely not a black-and-white issue for me.

Ed O.

Ed, have you read the grand jury report? Also, you're aware of PSU themselves investigating Sandusky in 1998, right, and that he retired within a year of it, never to coach again? Also, according to that report, PSU still allowed Sandusky access to the PSU football facility, but told him not to bring kids anymore.

I'm not sure what your angle is here, but it's not very difficult to connect the dots and see a complete an utter moral failing by Joe Paterno, among others, occured. I have to assume you're being in 'contrarian' mode, but frankly, this probably isn't the topic for that, and it's making you look extremely ignorant as to what is in the public record at this point.
 
My take is that people see it as a sickness and not that their friend is a monster.

That said, you have to confront a friend about something like this. You can still support him, but you can't morally ignore it.

Some people consider it a sexual orientation.
 
Ed, have you read the grand jury report? Also, you're aware of PSU themselves investigating Sandusky in 1998, right, and that he retired within a year of it, never to coach again? Also, according to that report, PSU still allowed Sandusky access to the PSU football facility, but told him not to bring kids anymore.

I haven't read the grand jury report. None of this impacts me or my life in the slightest, so I don't care to take the time or subject myself to it.

I'm not sure what your angle is here, but it's not very difficult to connect the dots and see a complete an utter moral failing by Joe Paterno, among others, occured.
I don't have an "angle". I am using the information that was available when I first made my post and thinking through some things with my fellow posters.

I have to assume you're being in 'contrarian' mode, but frankly, this probably isn't the topic for that, and it's making you look extremely ignorant as to what is in the public record at this point.
I'm not arguing the public record. I'm not arguing facts to any significant degree. I don't think that it's really up to you to tell me what topic is appropriate to disagree with others about, either.

Ed O.
 
My take is that people see it as a sickness and not that their friend is a monster.

That said, you have to confront a friend about something like this. You can still support him, but you can't morally ignore it.

I can understand that position and, upon further reflection, I think that you might be right.

Ed O.
 
Jerry Sandusky has 6 adopted children and would regularly bring in foster children into his home.

-ESPN
 
Re: Rumor: Sandusky was pimping out young boys to rich donors

Its the return of the catamites!
 
Re: Rumor: Sandusky was pimping out young boys to rich donors

His life in prison won't be worth $.05.
 

Mike McQueary: I'm In Protective Custody, Double Fisting Booze

Mike McQueary has reportedly informed the Penn State football players that he's currently in protective custody and "double fisting" alcohol.

According to PennLive.com, one of the PSU coaches gathered several players in a room on campus and allowed McQueary to speak to the team via speaker phone.

McQueary reportedly told the team, "I wanted to let you guys know I'm not your coach anymore. I'm done.”

McQueary also told the team he's not at the University, but in protective custody after receiving several threats ... and "double fisting" booze.

McQueary was placed on administrative leave earlier today.

McQueary -- who's married with a 2-year-old daughter -- is the man who witnessed Jerry Sandusky allegedly rape a young boy back in 2002 ... but failed to stop the attack and didn't report the crime to the police.

http://www.tmz.com/2011/11/11/mike-mcqueary-protective-custody-double-fisting/#.Tr3lNvKx1I4
 
double fisting booze. Crazy Irishmen. Way to go out, ya ginger!
 
I haven't read the grand jury report. None of this impacts me or my life in the slightest, so I don't care to take the time or subject myself to it.

So you want to stay ignorant of the story but argue with other poster about it.
 
So you want to stay ignorant of the story but argue with other poster about it.

No. I am not arguing facts. I'm arguing priorities and theories and what I believe to be moral or immoral.

Morality and theory impact my life every day. The Penn State program and the terrible things that a former assistant coach allegedly did do not.

That's not arguing the story, and I'm sorry if you can't tell the difference.

Ed O.
 

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