Annual Bonus

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Cash the bonus check, then thank them for it and regretfully give them notice the next day, offering to stay "as long as you can to train your replacement".

Few employers worth working for would hold it against you for accepting a better opportunity, unless they are already unhappy with you. Most employers would cancel your bonus regardless of how they felt about your past performance.

Exactly. And the bonus is for past performance. So if they're handing it out, you're entitled to it.

Enjoy it and be wise with your money.

 

[donkiez]

not sure what industry you work in but in mine if you take a job with a competitor they will pay you your two weeks to not show up. Alternativly you could just get yourself fired after you get your bonus. I agree with everyone that if its based on last year then you earned it.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://skloverworkingwisdom.com/blo...uses-are-due-in-one-week-can-i-lose-my-bonus/

“If I give in my notice of resignation, effective in two weeks, and bonuses are due in one week, can I lose my bonus?”
Published on March 4th, 2010 by Alan Sklover

Question: Hi, Alan. I just discovered your blog, wonderful! I have a question that seems very common, but I didn’t quite find an answer for it on your site.

I have been offered a new job and they want me to start as soon as possible. It would be OK for me to start April 1. However, it’s also “bonus season,” and my present employer pays bonuses on March 30th. I would like to respect the usual two-week notice period. The bonus plan language says “You will not be eligible for bonus if you resign your employment before the payment date.” The way I figure, since technically my resignation is not effective until after the bonuses are paid, I should be safe.

If I give my present employer two weeks notice on March 16, which means I will still be employed by them on March 30, will my bonus be protected, or jeopardized?

Name Withheld
Oakland, California


Answer: I am very glad you came upon our blog, because otherwise you might not have your bonus.

For three reasons, I am certain – at least 99.9% certain – that you will LOSE YOUR BONUS if you provide notice of resignation before you receive the bonus amount:

First, the language of the Bonus Plan is not clear, but I think the more logical reading is this: If you give NOTICE of resignation before payment date, you will lose your bonus. That is, the more common sense reading is SUBMISSION of resignation, not effectiveness of resignation.

Second, in my many years of advising and representing people on bonus issues, I have many, many times seen people in your exact situation: every single one who took a chance and submitted notice of resignation before the bonus payment, indeed, LOST the bonus payment.

Third, understand that bonuses are paid to reward past performance, but from the employer’s perspective, they have a more important purpose: to incentivize future efforts. For someone who they know is leaving, that second – and more important – purpose is gone.

Please, please, please do not give notice of resignation until you have received your bonus. In fact I go further in counseling my own clients: You should not give notice of resignation until (a) the money is in your account, AND (b) you have moved it to a different bank. Why? That is because, if an employer auto-deposits payments into your bank account, that same employer can – and they sometimes do – take it out later. I’ve seen that happen, even six months later. I counsel clients in your situation to leave only $10 or so, to prevent just that.

As to the “timing” of your transition, I would tell your new employer that you cannot leave your bonus “on the table,” and for this reason you can’t start until the first or second week in April. If your prospective employer really balks at that, you can ask them, “Well, then, would you put into writing that, if I lose out on my bonus, you will pay that amount to me, to ‘make me whole?’” Most employers will just as soon wait the extra week or two.

Thanks for submitting this question. It is a very, very common dilemma, and a question that I am asked by my clients very often, especially this time of year, that is, “bonus season.”

I’m glad you like our blog. Consider Subscribing; It’s free. And if this helped you, please tell your friends that our blog may help them. That’s what this blog is all about.

Best, Al Sklover

 

[blazerboy30]

The bonus is about month's worth of pay. It's performance based so it's a non-guaranteed bonus.

The new employer is giving me a relocation package but I was unable to negotiate more for the missed bonus or push back the start date.

Did you read that BLAZINGGIANTS? I accept your apology.

 

[blazerboy30]

If its performance-based for performance provided, there's not much they can do. I've seen this type of thing multiple times. Law generally rules in favor of the employee, especially in compensation already earned.

Oh dear you have no idea what you're talking about.

The entire reason companies setup a bonus structure is so that there is no sense of being "entitled" to or having "earned" the bonus. They can give or take it away at their discretion... that is the point of a bonus program as far as the company is concerned.

 

[MickZagger]

Blazerboy getting catty again. Imagine that. Weird.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

bb, bluefrog has said that it is a slam dunk, they always get bonuses during this time, etc

it being "guaranteed" or not isnt really the question

and if they wouldnt bonus you after you give your two weeks bluefrog, then fuck them, collect your bonus, soak up your sick time and make them fire you... and steal a stapler on the way out

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Did you read that BLAZINGGIANTS? I accept your apology.

Do you know how to read? You certainly know how to type. I didn't say it was guaranteed to him, but it's owed based on his past performance. Did you read DC's post? That's exactly what I said. I accept your apology, Slypokerdog (I figure I'd save the mods some time by editing what I really think of you).

Careful of your gag reflexes as you pull you foot from deep outta your throat.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

As a manager/CFO, I'd love bb as an employee. What manager doesn't want employees that don't have common sense in protecting themselves first over company interests?

Are you looking for a job, bb?

 

[blazerboy30]

bb, bluefrog has said that it is a slam dunk, they always get bonuses during this time, etc

it being "guaranteed" or not isnt really the question

and if they wouldnt bonus you after you give your two weeks bluefrog, then fuck them, collect your bonus, soak up your sick time and make them fire you... and steal a stapler on the way out

That IS the point. He already said it isn't guaranteed. If it IS guaranteed, like salary until terminated, then there is no reason for this discussion. If it is guaranteed, then give the 2-week notice and they'll have to pay the bonus regardless.

The reason this is even a discussion is because bluefrog said it isn't guaranteed. Given that, then they could easily decide not to award it after a notice is given.

 

[blazerboy30]

Do you know how to read? You certainly know how to type. I didn't say it was guaranteed to him, but it's owed based on his past performance. Did you read DC's post? That's exactly what I said. I accept your apology, Slypokerdog (I figure I'd save the mods some time by editing what I really think of you).

Careful of your gag reflexes as you pull you foot from deep outta your throat.

In the business world, there is no difference between guaranteed and owed.

It's actually pretty bad and scary that you would be giving somebody else financial advice given your obvious complete lack of logical skills.

My advice to bluefrog is to do some more research into how the bonus program is structured to see if there is a issuance date at which a bonus becomes official and guaranteed. Start there and move forward from that point.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

In the business world, there is no difference between guaranteed and owed.

Yes, but now that it's been earned and he knows he's getting one, it's now owed to him........ unless he resigns beforehand. Which is why he should wait until he has the bonus in hand. Which is what I've been saying all along. Which is exactly what Denny's posted link (and most everyone else's opinions have been).

Don't be so butthurt that nobody agrees with you. Even people who answer questions on these very topics for a living.

 

[blazerboy30]

Yes, but now that it's been earned and he knows he's getting one, it's now owed to him........ unless he resigns beforehand.

This isn't even the scenario. He's asking if he should give a 2-week notice before the bonus is paid. There is a difference between a resignation and a 2-week notice.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

All I've said is that the bonus is being paid on past performance. He's earned it, and he's going to get it, unless he gives notice. Therefore, he should wait to give notice until after he receives the bonus. It wouldn't be immoral on his part to take such a route, since he's being compensated based on past performance he provided the company. That's all I've said. I don't know why that's so complicated for you to understand. And it appears everyone else, including the author in Denny's link, agrees.

This coming from the guy who made his appearance into this thread by asking how any of us can answer this without knowing the size of the bonus.... as if that were the end-all, be-all in this decision.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Blazerboy getting catty again. Imagine that. Weird.

LOL. More catty than a PMS-ing woman just dumped by her boyfriend for a younger version of herself.

 

[blazerboy30]

All I've said is that the bonus is being paid on past performance. He's earned it, and he's going to get it, unless he gives notice.

This is the part that is in question. If the bonus is guaranteed, and "owed" as you say it is, then he'll get it whether he gives notice or not. A notice is nothing but a courtesy. It isn't required and he could give a 3-minute notice if he wants to.

Therefore, he should wait to give notice until after he receives the bonus. It wouldn't be immoral on his part to take such a route, since he's being compensated based on past performance he provided the company. That's all I've said.

And you're trying to answer a different question. You're giving your opinion on whether it is immoral or not. I'm answering to give him the best chance to get money that he can have access to.

I don't know why that's so complicated for you to understand. And it appears everyone else, including the author in Denny's link, agrees.

It's not complicated for people that understand there is nothing magical about a 2-week notice. He could easily collect the bonus and just wait until the last day to just walk out, unless there is something written in the bonus program prohibiting such a thing. You don't understand what you're talking about, and you certainly don't know the details about his bonus structure, yet you spout off like you somehow have the answers.

This coming from the guy who made his appearance into this thread by asking how any of us can answer this without knowing the size of the bonus.... as if that were the end-all, be-all in this decision.

It is certainly where the discussion should start. If the bonus is only a couple thousand dollars, it isn't even worth worrying about or the stress. And certainly isn't worth taking bad advice from you on a web forum.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I don't have time for your jibber-jabber. Don't be so butthurt. Everything I've said is what everyone else has said, as well as the guy who writes on this topic for a living. If you can't understand it, nobody can explain it to you. So you should just give up.

As for the amount.... not everyone lives baller status like you. I'm sure most all posters on this board would find a couple thousand dollars to worthwhile, Mr. 1%er.

The only bad advice would be to take the approach of "fuck it" and give notice before the bonus in hand. Get that bonus and then give notice - that's the best advice (and again, that's exactly what the article says). And if you can't understand that, then nobody can help you out. Sorry dude.

 

[bluefrog]

My advice to bluefrog is to do some more research into how the bonus program is structured to see if there is a issuance date at which a bonus becomes official and guaranteed. Start there and move forward from that point.

From people at work that I trust and have asked it sounds like there is no point that the bonus becomes official aside from the actual time it is deposited into my account.

http://skloverworkingwisdom.com/blo...uses-are-due-in-one-week-can-i-lose-my-bonus/

Please, please, please do not give notice of resignation until you have received your bonus. In fact I go further in counseling my own clients: You should not give notice of resignation until (a) the money is in your account, AND (b) you have moved it to a different bank. Why? That is because, if an employer auto-deposits payments into your bank account, that same employer can – and they sometimes do – take it out later. I’ve seen that happen, even six months later. I counsel clients in your situation to leave only $10 or so, to prevent just that.

I didn't know this was possible. An employer can take money back from you after it's been deposited in your bank account? How does that work?

 

[Denny Crane]

Like stop payment on a check.

 

[bluefrog]

Some of the fine print on my bonus notification:

"Under the terms of these plans or programs, there may be circumstances where all or a portion of these equity and/or cash base awards which are granted may not ultimately be settled, including but not limited to, your voluntary termination or violation of certain other conditions to settlement."

 

[Denny Crane]

A lawyer might cost you $250 to get a definitive answer. I wouldn't trust me or anyone else that you don't know is fully qualified to give you this kind of advice. Someone qualified to read that sort of legaleze...

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Point b is mostly false/limited. Once it's in your account and cleared, they can't pull it back. The bank cannot legally pull it back. And direct deposits, when approved by an employer with ample cash flow, go through almost immediately. That'd be fraud by your employer and the bank can't legally do anything once it clears (for direct deposit, typically within hours of it being in your account even if they don't have ample cash flow). Furthermore, the single biggest thing the IRS takes issue with (with respect to businesses) is fucking with employee compensation.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Some of the fine print on my bonus notification:

"Under the terms of these plans or programs, there may be circumstances where all or a portion of these equity and/or cash base awards which are granted may not ultimately be settled, including but not limited to, your voluntary termination or violation of certain other conditions to settlement."

I would expect these terms. But once it's cleared your account, you're golden.

 

[BlazerWookee]

You guys are ignoring the most important issue: How much of your bonus will I get?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

You guys are ignoring the most important issue: How much of your bonus will I get?

None. He decided to give notice before receiving the bonus.

 

[Masbee]

My current employer pays the annual bonuses on the 15th.

I've taken a new job that starts on February 25th.

I'll almost certainly loose the bonus if I give a proper two weeks notice (2/11).

Do I wait until I get the bonus and give less than 2 weeks notice or give the proper notice and risk leaving money on the table?

Two Weeks notice is a standard of courtesy. It is not required. There is no such thing in law or in employment contracts (except in very unusual circumstances).

Some employers walk certain employees out the door when a resignation is offered (paying them for the two weeks notice offered - with unused vacation/sick if available).

Many employees do not provide two weeks notice. If you choose to provide less than two weeks, you will not be alone.

If you already have a new job, then you are less concerned about a stellar reference.

You will have to decide if a future stellar reference is worth giving up such a large bonus for.

However, you have no guarantee that providing a two week notice will give you a stellar reference. There are many other reasons you could get a neutral or negative reference in the future.

Commonly, companies instruct their managers to provide no information on past employees other than dates of employment, title and maybe confirmation of compensation. If this is the case for your current company, you have little self-interest in giving up something so valuable as a yearly bonus.

I would strongly consider witholding the resignation until you have the bonus in your account.

If you are embarassed, you can always fib a bit and say at the time of your resignation; "I only now got absolute confirmation of the new hire. I begged them to give me two weeks, but they insist I start in X days."

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Two Weeks notice is a standard of courtesy. It is not required. There is no such thing in law or in employment contracts (except in very unusual circumstances).

Some employers walk certain employees out the door when a resignation is offered (paying them for the two weeks notice offered - with unused vacation/sick if available).

Many employees do not provide two weeks notice. If you choose to provide less than two weeks, you will not be alone.

If you already have a new job, then you are less concerned about a stellar reference.

You will have to decide if a future stellar reference is worth giving up such a large bonus for.

However, you have no guarantee that providing a two week notice will give you a stellar reference. There are many other reasons you could get a neutral or negative reference in the future.

Commonly, companies instruct their managers to provide no information on past employees other than dates of employment, title and maybe confirmation of compensation. If this is the case for your current company, you have little self-interest in giving up something so valuable as a yearly bonus.

I would strongly consider witholding the resignation until you have the bonus in your account.

If you are embarassed, you can always fib a bit and say at the time of your resignation; "I only now got absolute confirmation of the new hire. I begged them to give me two weeks, but they insist I start in X days."

It's kinda funny. It's like, standard protocol says he should give two weeks notice. It is the right thing to do as an employee.

But, at the same time, you earned your bonus based on past performance. Despite this being earned in the past, the bonus entices employees to perform in the future (in an effort to earn another bonus at some future date). Despite the fact the bonus coming up is based on the prior year, if he gives notice prior to collecting the bonus, do you think the company would say, "Thanks for a great year - we'll give you your bonus anyway!" Not likely.

As long as an employee isn't doing anything illegal, he should put his own interests first. Employers operate with their interests first. Besides, as someone else pointed out, if you're going to a competitor, as soon as you give notice, they will probably let you go long before the two weeks are up. When I resigned at my former employer, they kept me my full two weeks (and tried to get me to re-consider). But every other employee that resigned, even if my employers wanted them to stay, cut them 2-3 days after they gave notice.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

exactly like i said before, take the money and run

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

exactly like i said before, take the money and run

Pretty sure Steve Miller said that before you.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

make their living off other peoples taxes