Anyone getting a little concerned...

[BigDaddyAl1973]

Dude lay off the al attacks. Im not hating in him im stating the dam facts. Funny how when I defend the old coaches I get bashed. What did I say that ripped him...oh that he was out of shape and horrible last year, it was a fact. Again why do you feel the need to defend him...you related or something shall I call you Chuck Richards?

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[BigDaddyAl1973]

So in other words two out of three seasons being no better than a #2 centerman means I should bow to the guy. All the nash bashing and I get questioned on why im bashing our "defacto" captain...smh

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[theProdigy223]

I have no problem with anybody who wants to bash Richards. Good guy but he was brought here to be the number 1 C and he fell flat on his face.

If he played like the player we thought we were getting, Nash has a true #1 to play with and take some heat off him, and Stepan is developing nicely as a 2nd C in a supporting role. Instead, he played like a third liner and everything got thrown off balance.

Locker room presence isn't everything. If it was, Callahan would be set to make 6.5m as a Ranger next year.

You can wish him luck and say thanks for the memories, like I did above, but the fact is we thought we signed a #1 C and we got a playoff 4th liner.

 

[theProdigy223]

You guys are rough on Richards. He was solid, 20 goals, in 2 of 3 seasons. No he didn't live up to the contract, but Sather did what he needed to do to get him here. Richards had other comparable offers 3 summers ago, we all forget that. And the team had 3 strong seasons in Richards time here.

So instead of tearing him down today, how about we say thanks for the time here Brad. No you weren't great, but you had a couple of solid seasons, the team had solid success (1st ECF in 15 years/1st SCF in 20 years), and now we move on. No harm no foul. That is how I view it.

Now we go out and add a # 1 C this summer, or at least a C better than Richards at this point in his career.

not sure I agree with no harm no foul Chuck...if he plays like a #1, we might have seen a championship this year. The Kings' advantage at center ice was glaring.

 

[chuckd3534]

I like the new firery Al.... I guess this board has that kind of affect on people. Good stuff.

Here is my bottom line on Richards. CLEARLY the guy did not play up to the level we expected or Sather/the organization expected when he signed here, there is simply no way to debate that fact at all. So I think we all agree a lot more than some of these posts would indicate.

BUT where I differ a little is the guy was not a disaster here. He scored 20 goals in 2 of 3 seasons. He had 50 + points in 2 of 3 seasons here. He had a very solid 25/66 season in his first season here at the age of 31/32. Yes he was bad his second season here at 32/33, but he bounced back with a pretty solid 20/51 season in his third and final season here at 33/34. He was pretty solid in the playoffs, until the SCF, and was a leader all 3 seasons, and defacto captain of the team during this playoff run. To me that is worth something.

That's the fact of it really. He did NOT live up to the contract, no one can argue it. He did NOT live up to expectations, no one can argue it. BUT we were successful as a team in his 3 seasons here, and he played a role in that for sure.

The move to buy him out HAD to happen, it was 100% the right move. He is past his prime no doubt about it. He is a lower # 2 C at this point, maybe even a high # 3 at this point at age 34, but he is gone now. His contract has ZERO affect on us now or moving forward. We had success with him on the team for 3 years, and now we move on. I just don't see the point of ripping a guy who was 31-33 here and isn't vintage Richards anymore. And in his first season here at 31 he did go 25/66 which is really solid.

Now if he played like a stud # 1 C would we have won a cup in 12 or 14, maybe we would have Prod, certainly possible, but Richards is not that player anymore. In seasons 1 and 3 I think he played the best he could at the ages of 31 and 33, and he is what he is now. I can't kill somebody for being solid but not great when they are past the point of being great as a player and have lost a step.

And I won't rip Sather either. Richards had many other offers 3 summers ago. Bigger offers actually. It was the right move at the time. A move that I claim worked out considering 1st ECF in 15 years and 1st SCF in 20 years during his 3 years here. That plus the fact that his contract now does us zero harm is why I say no harm no foul. He gave us 2 of 3 solid seasons here, clearly not worth the contract or # 1 C seasons, but solid seasons, and now we move on. I don't think we need to look deeper than that.

But again that is just my opinion. Someone clearly can differ. All good there.

 

[chuckd3534]

And one other quick comment, no one is saying he was great here. No one is saying bow to him because he was so good, how can we ever knock him or question his play, no way. Like I said it was time and he needed to be gone for sure, and he clearly didn't live up to his contract. All I am saying is he wasn't a disaster here, and had two solid/pretty solid seasons here out of three, and the team had success during his time here with an ECF run and an SCF run. Not bad.

It was time to move on, Richards is past his prime at 34 now, he is what he is...a lower # 2 C who will score 15-18 goals going forward, but I don't see the need to take shots at him and act as if he was a disaster here and killed us.

Just one man's opinion though.

 

[mrmel29]

Chuck, if this is your idea of a quick comment I'd be afraid if I asked you what time it was you would tell me how to build a clock. Ha ha ha

 

[jamsim67]

I would rather AV work with Sather, and get a Center who best fits his system. Sather throwing BIG money at the biggest name available doesn't always work out in New York. For the most part, MSG has turned into the place where goal scorers come to die.

 

[Disturbed]

I am not going to hate on Richards either. Overall he wasn't what I thought he would be, I expected 25/70 good leadership and huge goals in the playoffs. He fell short of that.

But despite his struggles he was really bought out because of the decline that is coming in the next few years and the brutal cap recapture when he retires at 37 then for his performance the past 3 years.

His performance this year in regular season and playoffs was that of about a $4.5-5m player. Not special but decent.....Definitely not a #1 center but he really hasn't been that in years and will never be that again.

If you want to pass blame on why this team didn't go further in the playoffs you start with Rick Nash who makes 2M more than Richards and played worse in the playoffs.

Richards will be a great signing for an Eastern Conf team (likely a Met team) for 3.5m a year

 

[chuckd3534]

Agree 100% Dis. That's the way I view it. I expect 15 or so goals and 40 or so points for Richards next season. A player worth a cap hit in the mid/upper 3's somewhere going forward.

And let's also remember he did go 25/66 in his first season here, so he was pretty close to your 25/70 comment Dis. So at 31 he was that guy. At 32 he was lazy and wasn't ready during the lockout shortened season, and that is 100% on him and where I can totally see fans getting on him. And at 33 he was ready, but was 33 and was a 20/50 guy at that point in his career. I expect next year with a lesser role and not as much PP time, he will settle into a 15 or so/low 40's player. That's what I expect now from Richards.

And I agree with you also mel. That is why I don't love going crazy for Stastny. He will get 6 or 7 years and a cap hit close to 7, or in the 7's, I see no way around that, and I don't see that as a smart deal. That is why I much rather deal for Kesler, and am torn on whether I rather deal for Thornton or sign Stastny for that much money. I think it would come down to what we'd have to deal away to get Thornton. But dealing for Kesler, assuming the Canucks want some picks and kids, is my clear # 1 choice to add a big C.

 

[Disturbed]

I am all in on Kessler now provided price isn't terrible.

Statsny is not worth what he will get and Thornton is old and slow.



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[BigDaddyAl1973]

Im thinking kessler is overrated

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[mrmel29]

Slats needs to use oreilly and av.'s bad blood with each other and pry the kid out of colorado somehow.

 

[Disturbed]

Who do you want Al? Doubt Ottawa would trade Spezza to a eastern conf team


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[BigDaddyAl1973]

I dont want to overspend and be in the same possible position we were in with Richards. Can't stand another battle with Chuck.

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[theProdigy223]

Al I don't see another Richards situation if we make a trade. None of the 3 Cs available are signed for more than 3 more years. That's a big difference. Kesler only signed for 2 more.

I could see Stasny turning into a Richards situation, but that's it

 

[chuckd3534]

I don't think you can compare Kesler and Richards:

1. Richards was 31 his first season here. Kesler turns 30 in two months. Now you say 1 year big deal, but that is a big deal IMO. When you get around 30, every year counts.
2. Kesler has two years with a 5 mill cap hit left on his deal. Richards was a UFA that signed for 9 years with a 6.67 per cap hit.

With that said, it will not be easy for us to get Kesler. The AV/Kesler thing has some legs, whether he last minute changed his mind about coming here or not, it is not Kesler's first choice.

From yesterday:

News: Kesler wants a trade to Pittsburgh or Chicago, reports the Ottawa Sun. (Sat Jun 21)

Spin: Though it's hard to imagine Kesler playing for the Canucks' arch-rivals in Chicago, the Blackhawks have long been looking for a real number two center. The price will be steep for Kesler, who has two years remaining on a $5 million deal. The 29-year-old finished the season with 43 points in 77 games -- his lowest full-season point total since the 2007-08 campaign.

 

[theProdigy223]

He wants to go to f'n Pittsburg? What's that about?

Interesting that he refused to play for AV yet is willing to go to a team that doesn't even have a coach yet. Come on Kesler you're better than this.

I have a bad feeling we're going to end up with Stasny for like 22 years at 12m per

 

[chuckd3534]

You nailed it Prod. Stastny can become Richards with a 6 or 7 year deal in the 7's, but even Thornton cannot. 3 years for Thornton. 2 years for Kesler. That is what's left on those guys deals. Cannot be Richards who was signed for 9 years.

I think somehow we will get Thornton. He is 35 in 10 days. Has a cap hit of 6.75 for the next 3 seasons. The last 4 seasons his point totals are: 76, 68 (pro-rated from the shortened season), 77, and 70.

So he will score 70-75 points IMO. And he gets a ton of assists. Pairing him with Nash would create a lot of space for Nash and finally give him that big C to set him up. Add Hags for speed to that line. 2nd line of Kreider/Step/MSL. Keep the same 3rd line as this past season. That is a sweet top 9.

Not saying I want Thornton more than Kesler, I don't, but a lot of teams will be in on Kesler and I doubt we are his first choice. IF the Sharks want to shake it up and deal Big Joe, I think we would be his first choice, he has a NTC.

Spezza no shot coming here, he'll go Ducks or Blues. And Stastny, who I think could be here, will want a huge deal that I see as a mistake for the level of player he is.

 

[chuckd3534]

Crosby and Malkin have a draw. You'd want to play with them also. BUT Pitt doesn't get what they need. Now don't get me wrong, Kesler helps because he is bigger and has some grit, but another C and scoring is not their need. They need a dman with some snarl and 3rd line guys with some grit and bang. That should be their focus. Not another C when they have tons of money tied up in Cindy and Malkin, and Letang on D, who are all scoring finesse type guys.

If they add Kesler I wonder if they will deal Neal. And I also wonder what they do with Orpik. They need a tough dman, and if they let him walk that needs to be # 1 on their list.

Needed to re-sign Cindy and Malkin, but that Letang deal I don't like and never did. Too much for a one way dman IMO. We'll see.

 

[chuckd3534]

Stastny being here wouldn't shock me either. He clearly wants to stay with the Avs. The Avs/Sakic are saying they want him back, but the question is at what price.

Does Stastny take a deal with a cap hit in the 6's (maybe even a little less than the 6.6 cap hit he had this past contract) to stay in Denver? Does he maybe take 5 or 6 years instead of 7 or 8 years to stay in Denver?

Point is I think if Stastny is about the money and contract length he is gone. BUT if he gives the Avs a little discount to stay in Denver (6 years 6.5 or so cap hit) I think he stays with the Avs.

If he does look to max out, no doubt we will be in on him...no doubt at all.

For the record Stastny will be 29 in late December. So he is 2 + years younger than Richards was when we signed him to play at 31. That is a real differnce. The bigger issue with Stastny is I am not sure he is a real true # 1 C. That's my concern more than age.

His last 4 seasons points wise: 60, 49 (pro-rated from the shortened season), 53, 57.

Not worth the money he will want. Even if you give him a bump since the Avs were bad 3 of those 4 years, I think you are still looking in the low 60's point wise. Better than Richards now, a little better than Stepan, but not sure if he is a true # 1. And I think Thornton is a better player than Stastny with a better contract.

 

[panzerporter]

I'm with you Al good riddance to Richards, never wanted the guy in the first place because of his lack of size but I do remember Chuck's summer of love for Brad on the old ESPN board so it's no surprise he's rushed to his defense. Brad was brought here by Sather to be the #1 Center, quarterback the PP and because good old Torts wanted him here. We saw the PP struggle mightily and Brad eking out 3rd-4th line minutes. Brad came here because Sather gave him the dollars and 10 years, there were 2 or 3 other teams interested in him but I don't recall any other teams even approaching Glen's generosity. I'd put the Rangers recent postseason success squarely on #30, the rest of the team made contributions here and there. The fact that they had this success with two almost opposite philosophies in place also speaks to a strong roster not individuals.

I don't want old man Thornton, he would be the typical Sather knee-jerk signing, let him finish his career elsewhere. I'm not a fan of Kessler either, he looks great against a non-physical team like the Rangers but watch him against Calgary and you see what you'll get from him here against Eastern opponents: a guy with Stepan's size with a little more grit but less scoring ability. I would love Glen to sign a big player like Spezza, he's made deals with Ottawa before and they owe us from that f'n Wade Redden debacle.

 

[chuckd3534]

Richards HAD TO GO. No one is arguing that. Not me, not Dis, not puck. I don't think anyone is defending him at all. He underperformed here and had to go for sure. All we are saying is the guy wasn't a disaster here and the team had success while he was here. No one is defending him. No one is saying we should have kept Richards...no way. He had to go 10000000000000%. But to act as if he was a disaster here isn't fair. His first year here he went 25/66. His last year here he went 20/51. So 20 goals two of three seasons here. 50 + points two of three seasons here. And the team had its most success in 15 years. Those are facts bro.

And at the time it was reported that another team offered more money and he signed here anyway. At the very least other teams were right there neck and neck with us offer wise. That's just the way it is. I know 3 years later no one offered anywhere near the amount of money we offered, but that isn't true. And on top of that, who cares. Is it your money? Does it affect the team going forward? No on both counts.

Like I said, I respect anyone who wants to knock and rip Richards, that is cool and 100% your right, but let's realize that Richards was solid in 2 of 3 seasons here. That's the truth of it. Not worth the money he got, and not a # 1 C by far, but solid and he wasn't a disaster.

 

[chuckd3534]

And just a quick FYI...none of the guys you mentioned would be signings. Spezza under contract for one more year with Ottawa. They will deal him West. Kesler under contract for two more years with the Canucks. He has a NTC so he will go a long way in deciding where he will get dealt. And Thornton is under contract for three more years with the Sharks. He has a NTC, so same comments on Kesler apply to Thornton.

These guys will have a big say in where they end up. It will also be interesting to see what we have to deal to get any of these guys. Not sure if we have a match with these teams. We'll see.

 

[panzerporter]

Where did I say Richards didn't have to go Chuck?, more of your typical nonsense: conjure things a poster never wrote to bolster your flimsy argument on another's opinion, just leave it at "I respect your opinion" and stop adding the "but...". My point was that I agreed with Al and I believed the Rangers should have never signed Richards in the first place. Now you've changed your story (Surprise!) from several teams wanting Brad a few years ago to one obscure, unnamed team offering him more money (not a fact). Glen's offer blew all others out of the water and that is why Brad came here. An alternate take on the Rangers success is perhaps they could have gone all the way if Glen spent the Richards money more wisely, with Brad they came up short.

Actually here are the facts on Brad Richards bro: Brad was coming off a 77 point 72 game season that was prefaced by a 91 point 80 game season, he fell well short of that production here. Brad was brought in to QB our mediocre PP and failed miserably. Brad was brought here to be a leader but when it came time to name the Rangers Captain, Callahan got the nod.

 

[chuckd3534]

No panzer, I am saying he had to go. I agree with you guys. I didn't say you didn't think he had to go. Everyone knew he had to go panzer. Read deeper bro.

And you are wrong panzer, but that is cool, no judging or name calling here, I will leave that to you bro. There was a higher offer at the time according to many, BUT at the very least there were other teams right there with us offer wise, and Richards decided to come here. That's how it went down.

Richards first year here he scored 66 points and had 25 goals. That is very solid. AGAIN he was NOT a # 1 C here. He did NOT live up to his contract here. We all agree panzer. No one is disputing that fact, so to say it like someone is disagreeing is not true, we ALL agree there.

All we are saying is he wasn't a disaster here. He was solid/pretty solid 2 of 3 seasons. He was a leader from day one. Got an A on his chest right from the start. And he was the defacto captain of a team that went to the SCF. That's just the way it was panzer.

No one is saying he should have stayed. No one is saying he didn't underperform. No one is even defending him as you say. All some of use are saying is he wasn't a disaster no show here and had 2 pretty solid/solid seasons with 20 goals or more.

Like I said yesterday, I think we all agree a lot more than what some of these posts show. It comes off as some are knocking Richards and some are defending Richards, and I don't see it like that. I see it as some of us saying yeah he didn't get the job done per his contract. Yeah he underperformed. Yeah he had to go, but he wasn't awful here, and did more than some people think, and most importantly the team was a success during his 3 seasons here. That's all we are saying.

And on top of that we move on now. Whether his contract was 6 years, 9 years, or 12 years means nothing now really. The contract is gone and he is gone, and rightfully so. That's how I view it. But I look back on his 3 years here and say thanks for the memories, and thanks for the team being a success for the first time in 15 years during his time, whether he deserves a lot of the credit or not, it happened, and he was a leader who scored 20 or more goals in 2 of 3 seasons here.

That's my take at least. All good.

 

[mrmel29]

Chuck, after careful consideration don't want stasny who is a #2 c with his cap hit and contract years he wants. Let Kessler go to pitt. Not gonna be a big help to them as they need d not scoring and I don't want to give up the assets they'll want for him. Thornton, if we're taking on his whole cap hit at 6.75 should not cost us a ton of players, I'm thinking something like miller, a prospect like kristo and a draft pick should get that done. I think if we're going to be trading assets I would like it to somehow be for oreilly out of colorado especially if they sigh strasny themselves for the big bucks. That would be our "young adam graves" back in the form of a young center man.

 

[chuckd3534]

I agree mel. I just don't see Stastny worth that contract. If he leaves the Avs it will be because he wants a large deal, otherwise he would simply re-sign in Denver. So you know if he goes he gets 6 years and a cap hit of 7 mill per give or take...I pass.

Kesler I want, but think the Canucks will want a ton, his contract is great, and think we are not his top choice and he has control with the NTC.

I zero in on Thornton, not because I love him, but because he may be the guy we have the best shot to get, and has a better contract than Stastny will get. IF the Sharks want to deal him, and that is the only way he gets moved, I bet Thornton wants to come here first for sure. So that could set up a deal between us and the Sharks. His contract is the same as Richards was pretty much, but he is better. Averaged 72 points per season over the past 4 seasons, so I think 70-75 points is very doable. And pairing him with Nash could be a great pairing. Put speed on the other wing and we could be set. Then have Step and Kreider anchor the 2nd line with MSL. Looks like solid stuff to me.

 

[chuckd3534]

Biggest questions would be do the Sharks want to deal him AND what would we have to give up.

Is Miller, another good prospect, and a pick enough OR will we have to include a current NHL player like a Hags to get it done? The Sharks are looking to win now, not in 3 years, so that is a factor.

Should be an interesting 2 or 3 weeks. That's another plus of making the SCF, now we are at the draft and FA. So we have more hockey to talk for the next 15-20 days or so.

 

[Ranger71]

They would probably have to include Stepan in a Thornton deal, we don't have the prospects to make it work. Plus SJ would want a #2/3 to put into the lineup.