AP Exclusive: US removes uranium from Iraq

[Denny Crane]

Right. But if you have a billion gallons of insect poison, you do have WMDs.

 

[Vintage]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thoth @ Jul 24 2008, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>cough, cough....vindicated....cough</div>

How pathetic trying to justify the greatest debacle in US Foreign policy & Military History.

Just because I have aluminum siding on my house doesn't mean I have a six pack of Dr Pepper in the fridge. Another way, I may have cookie dough in the fridge, it doesn't mean I live in a bakery.
</div>


How is Iraq in any way worse than Vietnam?

 

[RipCity]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thoth @ Jul 24 2008, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>cough, cough....vindicated....cough</div>

How pathetic trying to justify the greatest debacle in US Foreign policy & Military History.

Just because I have aluminum siding on my house doesn't mean I have a six pack of Dr Pepper in the fridge. Another way, I may have cookie dough in the fridge, it doesn't mean I live in a bakery.
</div>


That is quite possibly the most horrible analogy I've ever heard. Congrats.

 

[TheBeef]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thoth @ Jul 24 2008, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>cough, cough....vindicated....cough</div>

How pathetic trying to justify the greatest debacle in US Foreign policy & Military History.

Just because I have aluminum siding on my house doesn't mean I have a six pack of Dr Pepper in the fridge. Another way, I may have cookie dough in the fridge, it doesn't mean I live in a bakery.
</div>

If you had 500 metric tons of cookie dough in your fridge, you would be hard pressed to convince me you werent planning on doing some serious baking....or that you had the munchies....

 

[Real]

I might be in the drive thru line at Burger King, but that doesn't mean I'm getting a burger....

Saddam had WMD's, doesn't mean they were in Iraq from 2002-2003. Maybe they got moved??

 

[huevonkiller]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Claims were made by the Bush and Blair adminstrations and their spin-doctors that Saddam Hussein was in possession of Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) which he might deploy at any time within 45 minutes. In September 2002, the Blair Government prepared a dossier to that effect for public consumption allegedly based on intelligence collected by MI6, their intelligence agency. The Bush administration relied upon this British intelligence in addition to their own. Further, the CIA is supposed to have collected intelligence that Saddam Hussein was engaged in procuring uranium from an African country so that he could refine the same and manufacture nuclear weapons. All these claims were being made when a team of Inspectors working in Iraq and headed by Hans Blix and Mohammed al Baredie, Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), a watchdog body, said they could not find any "smoking gun".

A plea by Hans Blix for more time was ignored by the Bush and Blair administrations which were eager to start the war. Recently, Paul O?€™Neil, former US Treasury Secretary, who was once on Bush?€™s National Security Team announced that he (O?€™Neil) never saw any evidence of Iraqi WMD. Instead, he said, Bush had been "gunning for Saddam Hussein since the day he took office". A team known as Iraq Survey Group (ISG) of 1200 personnel including 400 scientists headed by David Kay was deputed by the Bush Administration to trace Saddam?€™s WMD. The ISG carried out its search for nine months but the result was nil. Kay therefore tendered his resignation from the ISG out of disgust on the specific ground there were no WMDs in Iraq.</div>

http://www.iheu.org/node/1177

Well one could say we stretched certain conclusions. I can assure you we probably did not expect to waste so much money on this war either.

 

[huevonkiller]

Empirical numbers of War:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>For your quick reading, I've listed key statistics about the Iraq War, taken primarily from data analyzed by various think tanks, including The Brookings Institution's Iraq Index, and from mainstream media sources. Data is presented as of July 16, 2008, except as indicated.

U.S. SPENDING IN IRAQ

Spent & Approved War-Spending - About $600 billion of US taxpayers' funds. In June 2008, President Bush signed a bill approving about 200 billion more for 2008, which will bring the cumulative total to close to $800 billion.

U.S. Monthly Spending in Iraq - $12 billion in 2008

U.S. Spending per Second - $5,000 in 2008 (per Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on May 5, 2008)

Cost of deploying one U.S. soldier for one year in Iraq - $390,000 (Congressional Research Service)

Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq - $9 billion of US taxpayers' money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors. Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.

Missing - $1 billion in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles, machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and other equipment and services provided to the Iraqi security forces. (Per CBS News on Dec 6, 2007.)

Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq - $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings

Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported - $1.4 billion

Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items - $20 billion

Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" - $3.2 billion

Number of major U.S. bases in Iraq - 75 (The Nation/New York Times)

TROOPS IN IRAQ

Iraqi Troops Trained and Able to Function Independent of U.S. Forces - 6,000 as of May 2007 (per NBC's "Meet the Press" on May 20, 2007)

Troops in Iraq - Total 154,372, including 145,000 from the US, 4,000 from the UK, 2,000 from Georgia, 900 from Poland, 650 from South Korea and 1,822 from all other nations

U.S. Troop Casualties - 4,122 US troops; 98% male. 90% non-officers; 80% active duty, 12% National Guard; 74% Caucasian, 10% African-American, 11% Latino. 18% killed by non-hostile causes. 51% of US casualties were under 25 years old. 70% were from the US Army

Non-U.S. Troop Casualties - Total 313, with 176 from the UK

US Troops Wounded - 30,409, 20% of which are serious brain or spinal injuries (total excludes psychological injuries)

US Troops with Serious Mental Health Problems - 30% of US troops develop serious mental health problems within 3 to 4 months of returning home

US Military Helicopters Downed in Iraq - 68 total, at least 36 by enemy fire

IRAQI TROOPS, CIVILIANS & OTHERS IN IRAQ

Private Contractors in Iraq, Working in Support of US Army Troops - More than 180,000 in August 2007, per The Nation/LA Times.

Journalists killed - 129, 85 by murder and 44 by acts of war

Journalists killed by US Forces - 14

Iraqi Police and Soldiers Killed - 8,461

Iraqi Civilians Killed, Estimated - A UN issued report dated Sept 20, 2006 stating that Iraqi civilian casualties have been significantly under-reported. Casualties are reported at 50,000 to over 100,000, but may be much higher. Some informed estimates place Iraqi civilian casualities at over 600,000.

Iraqi Insurgents Killed, Roughly Estimated - 55,000

Non-Iraqi Contractors and Civilian Workers Killed - 554

Non-Iraqi Kidnapped - 306, including 57 killed, 147 released, 4 escaped, 6 rescued and 89 status unknown.

Daily Insurgent Attacks, Feb 2004 - 14

Daily Insurgent Attacks, July 2005 - 70

Daily Insurgent Attacks, May 2007 - 163

Estimated Insurgency Strength, Nov 2003 - 15,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, Oct 2006 - 20,000 - 30,000

Estimated Insurgency Strength, June 2007 - 70,000

QUALITY OF LIFE INDICATORS

Iraqis Displaced Inside Iraq, by Iraq War, as of May 2007 - 2,255,000

Iraqi Refugees in Syria & Jordan - 2.1 million to 2.25 million

Iraqi Unemployment Rate - 27 to 60%, where curfew not in effect

Consumer Price Inflation in 2006 - 50%

Iraqi Children Suffering from Chronic Malnutrition - 28% in June 2007 (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)

Percent of professionals who have left Iraq since 2003 - 40%

Iraqi Physicians Before 2003 Invasion - 34,000

Iraqi Physicians Who Have Left Iraq Since 2005 Invasion - 12,000

Iraqi Physicians Murdered Since 2003 Invasion - 2,000

Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 1 to 2 hours, per Ryan Crocker, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq (Per Los Angeles Times, July 27, 2007)

Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 10.9 in May 2007

Average Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 5.6 in May 2007

Pre-War Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 16 to 24

Number of Iraqi Homes Connected to Sewer Systems - 37%

Iraqis without access to adequate water supplies - 70% (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)

Water Treatment Plants Rehabilitated - 22%

RESULTS OF POLL Taken in Iraq in August 2005 by the British Ministry of Defense (Source: Brookings Institute)

Iraqis "strongly opposed to presence of coalition troops - 82%

Iraqis who believe Coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security - less than 1%

Iraqis who feel less ecure because of the occupation - 67%

Iraqis who do not have confidence in multi-national forces - 72%</div>

http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsec...IraqNumbers.htm

 

[AEM]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Jul 24 2008, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I might be in the drive thru line at Burger King, but that doesn't mean I'm getting a burger....

Saddam had WMD's, doesn't mean they were in Iraq from 2002-2003. Maybe they got moved??</div>

Look to Syria. I've been saying that since 2002...

 

[huevonkiller]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Why McCain Should Embrace Withdrawal

Ilan Goldenberg

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's support for a timetable for the withdrawal of American combat forces has created a political firestorm in the United States with most of the commentary focused on how his statements reinforce Barack Obama's policies. John McCain and other proponents of a continued large U.S. presence in Iraq have dismissed Maliki's position as unimportant, arguing that it is "only" the result of the domestic political pressures inside Iraq.

McCain is right that this is ultimately about Iraqi domestic politics. But insurgencies and counterinsurgency strategies are, at their very core, all about domestic politics. A close study of the Army's own Counterinsurgency (COIN) doctrine suggests that the Maliki government's position should be recognized as an important and positive development. It signals the beginning of the end of the Iraq War as the American military takes on an increasingly smaller role while handing off more responsibility to the Iraqi Security Forces and withdrawing.

Despite confusion and various halfhearted retractions from Iraqi politicians and attempted explanations by the White House, it is apparent that Maliki's statements represent a sea change inside Iraq. There is today a consensus within the Iraq body politic for setting a timetable for the withdrawal of American combat forces. The Iraqi public is overwhelmingly supportive of an American withdrawal. Muqtada al Sadr and other opponents of Maliki's coalition have always called for a withdrawal and made it one of the cornerstones of their political platform.

Two weeks ago Maliki expressed similar views only pulling back after pressure from the White House. Iraq's National Security Advisor Mouwaffak al-Rubaie and Vice President Adel Abdul-Mahdi both reaffirmed this position in recent weeks and Maliki's spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh stated authoritatively on Monday that "We can't give any schedules or dates, but the Iraqi government sees the suitable date for withdrawal of the U.S. forces is by the end of 2010." In fact, even the Bush administration has accepted this reality and is now negotiating "time horizons" as part of an agreement that will govern the legal status of American forces in Iraq.

It is hard to imagine how these developments won't reshape or at least dramatically influence the military's COIN strategy in Iraq According to Army COIN Field Manual, written by General David Petraeus and considered the definitive work on the subject, "Political power is the central issue in insurgencies and counterinsurgencies; each side aims to get the people to accept its governance or authority as legitimate." The government and the insurgents are in a competition for the support of the public and whichever side is able to provide security and basic services and govern legitimately is going to prevail.

Iraq is more complicated than the average insurgency because, in addition to Sunni insurgents, the central government has had to deal with various Shi'a militias, al Qaeda in Iraq and other non-state actors. However, when dealing with all these groups the basic formula remains the same: security, services, and legitimacy.

In this context the United States must listen to the Iraqi government's demands or risk endangering the gains that have been made during the past 18 months. Over that time the Iraqi government and its security forces have increasingly taken a more central role in providing security and have increased their legitimacy in the eyes of the people. However, one of the key elements still working against them is the heavy dependence on the U.S. military presence, which is highly unpopular inside Iraq.

Thus, Maliki's recent declaration was not, as John McCain would have you believe, just the Iraqi government playing politics. Instead, it was a genuine attempt by the Iraqi government to increase its legitimacy with its people -- a critical element of counterinsurgency. One of the main factors limiting the Iraqi government’s credibility with its own people is its complete dependence on the United States. Maliki's declarations were meant to limit that perception and shore up domestic support. After coming out so strongly and publicly for a gradual American withdrawal, the Maliki government has made it all but impossible to walk back. If it were to now sign an agreement that did not include some specific target dates for withdrawal or that tried to preserve the permanent South Korea-like presence that John McCain has long advocated, it would be seen by its own people as a weak American puppet instead of the legitimate government that it must become.

This could in turn lead to a dramatic opening for opponents of the government. For example, Muqtada Al Sadr, who has already used opposition to the U.S. military presence to his political advantage and still has the capacity to mobilize large numbers of Mehdi Army militiamen to fight on his behalf, could at some point decide to forgo political bargaining and return to fighting. Similarly, the former Sunni insurgents now known as the Sons of Iraq are currently cooperating with the U.S. military against Al Qaeda in Iraq. However, they still distrust the Maliki Government which has been slow to integrate them into the Iraqi Security Forces and may at some point choose to turn against the central government. A government that is seen as a complete puppet of the United States would find itself in a weakened position -- unable to garner the necessary support against these types of threats.

Petraeus's counterinsurgency manual also makes clear the Iraqi Government's desire for a timeline should be seen as an important step forward: "The long-term goal is to leave a government able to stand by itself. In the end, the host nation has to win on its own. ... Eventually all foreign armies are seen as interlopers or occupiers; the sooner the main effort can transition to Host Nation institutions, without unacceptable degradation, the better." Of course, it is quite likely that, buoyed by its recent successes, the Maliki Government is overestimating its own capabilities and the U.S. should take care to withdraw carefully in a way that minimizes the likelihood of the situation deteriorating. But with that caveat in place, counterinsurgency doctrine dictates that this assertion of independence is an important step. It should be welcomed -- not derided as political posturing or suppressed by a White House seeking a permanent presence in Iraq.

In the end, COIN doctrine tells us that Prime Minister Maliki's recent assertions are a crucial turning point as Iraqis being to declare their own independence. This moment should be seized on to begin transitioning to a more limited mission that acts to support the Iraqis instead of taking the lead, and which requires a much smaller U.S. force presence. This is the position that Barack Obama has had all along. John McCain would be wise to accept this new reality and move to Obama's position, instead of continuing to reject the major breakthrough that has occurred.</div>

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articl...race_withdrawal

 

[The Return of the Raider]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jul 24 2008, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Right. But if you have a billion gallons of insect poison, you do have WMDs.</div>

If you have a couple of chemicals that can be purchased from a farmers COOP, you can build a WMD. Timothy McVeigh used a WMD on an Oklahoma building using commonly attainable materials, that did not require the level of equipment needed to produce a nuclear bomb out of Uranium cake.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Saddam’s supply of yellowcake has been secretly sold to a Canadian energy firm and flown safely to Montreal.

In a Monday June 9, 2003 file photo, UN inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) work at the nuclear facility in Tuwaitha, Iraq, 50 kms east of Baghdad. The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein\'s nuclear program - a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium - reached a Canadian port Saturday, July 5, 2008, to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans. (AP Photo/Saurabh Das, file) The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program - a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium - reached a Canadian port Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans. The removal of 550 metric tons of “yellowcake” - the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment - was a significant step toward closing the books on Saddam’s nuclear legacy. It also brought relief to U.S. and Iraqi authorities who had worried the cache would reach insurgents or smugglers crossing to Iran to aid its nuclear ambitions.

[...]

While yellowcake alone is not considered potent enough for a so-called “dirty bomb” - a conventional explosive that disperses radioactive material - it could stir widespread panic if incorporated in a blast. Yellowcake also can be enriched for use in reactors and, at higher levels, nuclear weapons using sophisticated equipment.

[...]

Tuwaitha and an adjacent research facility were well known for decades as the centerpiece of Saddam’s nuclear efforts. Israeli warplanes bombed a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later, U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf War. <u>There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991</u>, the official said.

Daniel De Groot notes that “this uranium a) was not weapons grade and b) was well known to the UN and IAEA and was being stored legally by Saddam’s government. It was legally in Iraq according to international law.” Barbara O’Brien adds, “The critical point is that Saddam Hussein couldn’t do anything with this uranium because he lacked the equipment and technology to enrich it. So it had been sitting around for years in drums sealed by the IAEA. No nuclear program.” Here’s an extensive listings of IAEA Key Findings on Iraq’s Nuclear Program, listing extensively the materials we knew about before the invasion.

I’d add that the key line from the AP report is, “<u>There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991</u>.” So, while Joe Wilson may have lied about many things, the movement of yellowcake from more than a decade before his infamous fact finding trip isn’t evidence of a new one.</div>

Vindication? WMD's? Neither.

 

[The Return of the Raider]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 24 2008, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thoth @ Jul 24 2008, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>cough, cough....vindicated....cough</div>

How pathetic trying to justify the greatest debacle in US Foreign policy & Military History.

Just because I have aluminum siding on my house doesn't mean I have a six pack of Dr Pepper in the fridge. Another way, I may have cookie dough in the fridge, it doesn't mean I live in a bakery.
</div>

If you had 500 metric tons of cookie dough in your fridge, you would be hard pressed to convince me you werent planning on doing some serious baking....or that you had the munchies....
</div>

Not even if that cookie dough had completely rotted while sitting there for 12 straight years, had never moved, was documented, and he had no stove in which to bake the cookies?

 

[RipCity]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider @ Jul 25 2008, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 24 2008, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thoth @ Jul 24 2008, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>cough, cough....vindicated....cough</div>

How pathetic trying to justify the greatest debacle in US Foreign policy & Military History.

Just because I have aluminum siding on my house doesn't mean I have a six pack of Dr Pepper in the fridge. Another way, I may have cookie dough in the fridge, it doesn't mean I live in a bakery.
</div>

If you had 500 metric tons of cookie dough in your fridge, you would be hard pressed to convince me you werent planning on doing some serious baking....or that you had the munchies....
</div>

Not even if that cookie dough had completely rotted while sitting there for 12 straight years, had never moved, was documented, and he had no stove in which to bake the cookies?
</div>

Another absolutely awful analogy. Cookie dough is no good after 12 years, Uranium however, is still potent and useable well past 12 years. Let's not forget that no centerfuge is required to make yellow-cake uranium a WMD, it already is. High explosive + yellow cake = dirty bomb aka a Weapon of Mass Destruction.