Science Are the Covid Vaccines the Biggest Pharma Corporate Welfare Bailout in History?

[barfo]

Contradicted himself in the same post. Amazing. How do you know it doesn’t work against Covid? Where is your medical proof?

In the appropriate medical journals, where it belongs.

Again, what motivation is there for doctors to put their reputations on the line to lie about a generic medicine that they believe helped treat Covid based on the results they saw in their clinics.

Who said they were lying? Anecdotal observations are not lies, they simply aren't statistically meaningful.

I ate an orange today and I didn't get covid today. Therefore, oranges prevent covid? Maybe, but further study would be necessary to validate that hypothesis.

Why are you so opposed to people choosing to take a safe generic as treatment while at the same time promoting mRNA vaccines that don’t always work, as we’ve seen.

At the very worst, HCQ doesn’t work for them. Why do you care?

Actually, that's not the very worst. The worst would be they take it rather than something that would actually help them, and also suffer side effects from it.

But I don't think I've suggested that people be forbidden from taking it if they want to, despite medical advice to the contrary.

Do you own stock in Moderna of Pfizer?

I own Pfizer and J&J. I got the Moderna shot. Make of that what you will.

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19

COVID-19. We’ve been living with it for what sometimes seems like forever. Given the number of deaths that have occurred from the disease, it’s perhaps not surprising that some consumers are looking at unconventional treatments, not approved or authorized by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Though this is understandable, please beware. The FDA’s job is to carefully evaluate the scientific data on a drug to be sure that it is both safe and effective for a particular use, and then to decide whether or not to approve it. Using any treatment for COVID-19 that’s not approved or authorized by the FDA, unless part of a clinical trial, can cause serious harm.

There seems to be a growing interest in a drug called ivermectin to treat humans with COVID-19. Ivermectin is often used in the U.S. to treat or prevent parasites in animals. The FDA has received multiple reports of patients who have required medical support and been hospitalized after self-medicating with ivermectin intended for horses.

Here’s What You Need to Know about Ivermectin

• FDA has not approved ivermectin for use in treating or preventing COVID-19 in humans. Ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses for some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea. Ivermectin is not an anti-viral (a drug for treating viruses).
• Taking large doses of this drug is dangerous and can cause serious harm.
• If you have a prescription for ivermectin for an FDA-approved use, get it from a legitimate source and take it exactly as prescribed.
• Never use medications intended for animals on yourself. Ivermectin preparations for animals are very different from those approved for humans.

What is Ivermectin and How is it Used?
Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms. In addition, some topical (on the skin) forms of ivermectin are approved to treat external parasites like head lice and for skin conditions such as rosacea.

Some forms of ivermectin are used in animals to prevent heartworm disease and certain internal and external parasites. It’s important to note that these products are different from the ones for people, and safe when used as prescribed for animals, only.

When Can Taking Ivermectin Be Unsafe?
The FDA has not reviewed data to support use of ivermectin in COVID-19 patients to treat or to prevent COVID-19; however, some initial research is underway. Taking a drug for an unapproved use can be very dangerous. This is true of ivermectin, too.

There’s a lot of misinformation around, and you may have heard that it’s okay to take large doses of ivermectin. That is wrong.

Even the levels of ivermectin for approved uses can interact with other medications, like blood-thinners. You can also overdose on ivermectin, which can cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, hypotension (low blood pressure), allergic reactions (itching and hives), dizziness, ataxia (problems with balance), seizures, coma and even death.

Ivermectin Products for Animals Are Different from Ivermectin Products for People
For one thing, animal drugs are often highly concentrated because they are used for large animals like horses and cows, which can weigh a lot more than we do—a ton or more. Such high doses can be highly toxic in humans.

Moreover, FDA reviews drugs not just for safety and effectiveness of the active ingredients, but also for the inactive ingredients. Many inactive ingredients found in animal products aren’t evaluated for use in people. Or they are included in much greater quantity than those used in people. In some cases, we don’t know how those inactive ingredients will affect how ivermectin is absorbed in the human body.

Meanwhile, effective ways to limit the spread of COVID-19 continue to be to wear your mask, stay at least 6 feet from others who don’t live with you, wash hands frequently, and avoid crowds.

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consu...-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

 

[jonnyboy]

Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent COVID-19

COVID-19. We’ve been living with it for what sometimes seems like forever. Given the number of deaths that have occurred from the disease, it’s perhaps not surprising that some consumers are looking at unconventional treatments, not approved or authorized by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Though this is understandable, please beware. The FDA’s job is to carefully evaluate the scientific data on a drug to be sure that it is both safe and effective for a particular use, and then to decide whether or not to approve it. Using any treatment for COVID-19 that’s not approved or authorized by the FDA, unless part of a clinical trial, can cause serious harm.

There seems to be a growing interest in a drug called ivermectin to treat humans with COVID-19. Ivermectin is often used in the U.S. to treat or prevent parasites in animals. The FDA has received multiple reports of patients who have required medical support and been hospitalized after self-medicating with ivermectin intended for horses.

Here’s What You Need to Know about Ivermectin

• FDA has not approved ivermectin for use in treating or preventing COVID-19 in humans. Ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses for some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea. Ivermectin is not an anti-viral (a drug for treating viruses).
• Taking large doses of this drug is dangerous and can cause serious harm.
• If you have a prescription for ivermectin for an FDA-approved use, get it from a legitimate source and take it exactly as prescribed.
• Never use medications intended for animals on yourself. Ivermectin preparations for animals are very different from those approved for humans.

What is Ivermectin and How is it Used?
Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms. In addition, some topical (on the skin) forms of ivermectin are approved to treat external parasites like head lice and for skin conditions such as rosacea.

Some forms of ivermectin are used in animals to prevent heartworm disease and certain internal and external parasites. It’s important to note that these products are different from the ones for people, and safe when used as prescribed for animals, only.

When Can Taking Ivermectin Be Unsafe?
The FDA has not reviewed data to support use of ivermectin in COVID-19 patients to treat or to prevent COVID-19; however, some initial research is underway. Taking a drug for an unapproved use can be very dangerous. This is true of ivermectin, too.

There’s a lot of misinformation around, and you may have heard that it’s okay to take large doses of ivermectin. That is wrong.

Even the levels of ivermectin for approved uses can interact with other medications, like blood-thinners. You can also overdose on ivermectin, which can cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, hypotension (low blood pressure), allergic reactions (itching and hives), dizziness, ataxia (problems with balance), seizures, coma and even death.

Ivermectin Products for Animals Are Different from Ivermectin Products for People
For one thing, animal drugs are often highly concentrated because they are used for large animals like horses and cows, which can weigh a lot more than we do—a ton or more. Such high doses can be highly toxic in humans.

Moreover, FDA reviews drugs not just for safety and effectiveness of the active ingredients, but also for the inactive ingredients. Many inactive ingredients found in animal products aren’t evaluated for use in people. Or they are included in much greater quantity than those used in people. In some cases, we don’t know how those inactive ingredients will affect how ivermectin is absorbed in the human body.

Meanwhile, effective ways to limit the spread of COVID-19 continue to be to wear your mask, stay at least 6 feet from others who don’t live with you, wash hands frequently, and avoid crowds.

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consu...-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

Also not approved by the FDA:

Any COVID-19 vaccine.

To summarize what you just posted:

-The FDA has never even reviewed any ivermectin studies in relation to Covid-19 treatment.
-Don’t take animal medicine.
-If you take too much of a medicine, it could be bad for you.
-Don’t overdose on ivermectin.
-Shut up and wear a mask bitch.

Thanks, FDA.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Also not approved by the FDA:

Any COVID-19 vaccine.

nbcchicago.com

Are COVID Vaccines FDA Approved? Here's How the Process Works
NBC Chicago
4 minutes
News that Moderna was inching closer to requesting full approval of its COVID vaccine by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has led to some questions surrounding the approval process for the coronavirus vaccines this week.

Currently, no coronavirus vaccine is fully approved by the FDA, but three were given emergency use authorization by the agency.

They include vaccines from Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson, the last of which regulators recommended be paused Tuesday while they investigate reports of potentially dangerous blood clots in a small number of women.

Emergency use authorization allows a vaccine to become available prior to full approval in the case of public health emergencies. The FDA can revoke the EUA at any time.

"The vaccines met FDA’s rigorous scientific standards for safety, effectiveness, and manufacturing quality needed to support emergency use authorization," the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention states on its website.

FDA approval of a drug, which requires a rigorous and structured process, means that data on the drug’s effects have been reviewed by the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, which rules on whether the drug's provided benefits "outweigh its known and potential risks for the intended population," according to the agency's website.

Moderna, citing data from its phase three clinic trial, reported its COVID-19 vaccine was more than 90% effective at protecting against COVID and more than 95% effective against severe disease up to six months after the second dose, the company said Tuesday.

The update brings Moderna a step closer to filing its request for full U.S. approval, CNBC reports.

Once it gets full approval, Moderna can begin marketing the shots directly to consumers and selling them to individuals and private companies in the U.S.

Similarly, Pfizer and BioNTech said at the end of March that data from their Phase 3 trial showed high levels of protection against COVID six months after second doses.

"Because of that, that means that Pfizer is now going to be able to apply for the FDA for the full approval," Chicago Department of Public Health Commissioner Dr. Allison Arwady said at the time. "It's been under emergency use authorization, but that step is the part that lets you actually move ahead and apply for the full approval authorization, which is a big deal and exciting."

Since then, the companies have requested the FDA expand the emergency use of their COVID-19 vaccine to include adolescents aged 12 to 15.

Meanwhile, U.S. health officials are weighing next steps as they investigate a handful of unusual blood clots in people who received Johnson & Johnson’s COVID-19 vaccine — a one-dose shot that many countries were eagerly awaiting to help speed virus protection.

It’s not clear if the exceedingly rare reports — so far, six cases out of more than 7 million inoculations in the U.S. — really are linked to the J&J vaccine. But the government recommended a pause in J&J vaccinations on Tuesday, just a week after European regulators declared that such clots are a rare but possible risk with the AstraZeneca vaccine, a shot made in a similar way but not yet approved for use in the U.S.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/cor...approved-heres-how-the-process-works/2486206/

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Also not approved by the FDA:

Any COVID-19 vaccine.

To summarize what you just posted:

-The FDA has never even reviewed any ivermectin studies in relation to Covid-19 treatment.
-Don’t take animal medicine.
-If you take too much of a medicine, it could be bad for you.
-Don’t overdose on ivermectin.
-Shut up and wear a mask bitch.

Thanks, FDA.

fda.gov

Learn More About COVID-19 Vaccines From the FDA

8-10 minutes
See the evidence for each COVID-19 vaccine and the reasoning behind the FDA’s emergency use authorizations.

April 23, 2021: The FDA amended the emergency use authorization of the Johnson & Johnson (Janssen) COVID-19 vaccine to include information about a very rare and serious type of blood clot in people who receive the vaccine. View frequently asked questions about Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine...

Report vaccine side effects toll-free at 1-800-822-7967 or online to FDA/CDC Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).





The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized three COVID-19 vaccines for emergency use. The vaccines are:

• Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine
• Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine
• Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine (Johnson & Johnson)

Emergency use authorization (EUA) allows these vaccines to be distributed in the U.S. Learn more about EUAs for COVID-19 vaccines from the FDA’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER).

Who authorizes COVID-19 vaccines for emergency use?
The FDA is the authority that has regulatory oversight of the safety, effectiveness and quality of vaccines that are used in the U.S., including COVID-19 vaccines. FDA employees who are career scientists and doctors are the people who decided to authorize COVID-19 vaccines after they thoroughly analyzed and evaluated the data on COVID-19 vaccine safety, effectiveness and manufacturing quality.

The FDA may issue an EUA when the agency’s scientific experts have determined that the known and potential benefits of the vaccine outweigh its known and potential risks. FDA employees are fathers, mothers, daughters, sons, sisters, brothers and more. They and their families are directly impacted by the work they do.

Why should I get a COVID-19 vaccine?
When you get a COVID-19 vaccine, you are choosing to protect yourself and make a difference for your children, parents, grandparents, and other loved ones. Millions of people in the U.S. have already received a COVID-19 vaccine. For a community to be fully protected, most community members need to get the vaccine. Getting vaccinated to prevent COVID-19 will help protect you from COVID-19, and it may also protect the people around you.

How do I get a COVID-19 vaccine?
Go to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website to find your state and local health departments who are responsible for COVID-19 vaccine distribution. All questions and concerns should be sent to your state government or local health department. The U.S. government’s goal is to have enough COVID-19 vaccine doses for all people in the U.S. who choose to be vaccinated.

FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccines are being distributed for free by states and local communities. If you see vaccines for sale online, or if someone asks you for money to get a vaccine appointment, to put your name on a waiting list, or to get access to a vaccine, it is a scam. You do not need to pay to get a vaccine appointment or to be put on a waiting list.

Do the COVID-19 vaccines work?
Yes. All three FDA-authorized vaccines are effective in preventing COVID-19 and related serious outcomes, including hospitalization and deaths. The FDA thoroughly evaluated and analyzed the safety and effectiveness data for all of the authorized COVID-19 vaccines and determined that the available data for each vaccine provides clear evidence that the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks of each vaccine.

Do the COVID-19 vaccines work against the new variants?
The available information suggests that the authorized vaccines remain effective in protecting the American public against currently circulating strains of COVID-19. We are already talking with vaccine manufacturers about these new strains and how to quickly and safely make any changes that may be needed in the future.

Some variants spread more easily than others and are more transmissible than the original virus that causes COVID-19. To help slow the spread of COVID-19, get a COVID-19 vaccine when it is available to you. Other ways to slow the spread include:

• Wearing a mask
• Keeping 6 feet apart from others who don’t live with you
• Avoiding crowds and poorly ventilated indoor spaces
• Washing your hands often with soap and water (use hand sanitizer if soap and water aren’t available)

How safe are the COVID-19 vaccines?
The FDA evaluated data from clinical studies that included tens of thousands of people for each COVID-19 vaccine. The FDA authorized the vaccines because the data from these studies clearly showed that the known and potential benefits of the FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccines outweighed the known and potential risks.

Report vaccine side effects toll-free at 1-800-822-7967 or online to FDA/CDC Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).

Millions of doses of FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccines have been given to people all around the country. Serious adverse events following vaccination are very rare. Allergic reactions, some of which are severe, and cases of anaphylaxis have occurred following administration of COVID-19 vaccines. Anaphylaxis is a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction that happens within seconds or minutes of exposure to an allergen. Because of this remote chance of severe allergic reaction or anaphylaxis, health care providers may ask you to stay at the place where you received your COVID-19 vaccine for monitoring for 15 to 30 minutes.

For one vaccine, the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine, there have been cases reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) of a type of blood clot called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST) in combination with low levels of platelets in the blood (thrombocytopenia). CVST occurs when a blood clot forms in the brain's venous sinuses. This prevents blood from draining out of the brain. It is a type of rare stroke.

On April 13, 2021, the FDA and CDC recommended a pause in the use of this vaccine out of an abundance of caution while it further investigates these cases and to ensure that the health care provider community is aware of the potential for these adverse events and can plan for proper recognition and management due to the unique treatment required with this type of blood clot.

Can I see the safety and effectiveness data that support the Emergency Use Authorization of the COVID-19 vaccines?
The FDA is publicly sharing information about COVID-19 vaccines so you can see the evidence for yourself. The FDA’s analysis of clinical trial data, as well as demographic information about the clinical study volunteers, is available in the FDA Briefing Document for each vaccine. You can also view the advisory committee webcasts where outside experts discuss the data. The FDA’s reasoning for authorizing each vaccine is available in the FDA Decision Memorandum.

COVID-19 Vaccine FDA Briefing Document Advisory Committee Meeting Webcast FDA Decision Memorandum
Pfizer-BioNTech
COVID-19 Vaccine Pfizer-BioNTech December 10, 2020 Webcast Pfizer-BioNTech
Moderna
COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna December 17, 2020 Webcast Moderna
Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine
(Johnson & Johnson) Janssen February 26, 2021 Webcast Janssen
Does the FDA monitor COVID-19 vaccine safety after authorization?
Yes. The FDA and the CDC have several systems in place to continually monitor COVID-19 vaccine safety. These systems, called “passive surveillance” and “active surveillance” systems, rapidly detect and investigate potential safety problems. Systems such as the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) and CDC’s text-based v-safe system, which receive reports of adverse events following vaccination, are examples of passive surveillance systems. The FDA‘s BEST InitiativeExternal Link Disclaimer is an example of an active surveillance system, which can rapidly analyze information occurring in millions of individuals recorded in large data systems to investigate any safety signals that are identified by VAERS or v-safe.

Related Information

• FDA: COVID-19 Vaccine Safety Monitoring
• FDA COVID-19 Vaccine Information: http://www.fda.gov/covid19vaccines

 

[jonnyboy]

My skepticism about taking an experimental vaccine for a disease I’m not at risk for is not about microchips and other weird shit. It’s mainly rooted in the fact that I live in a country with a for-profit healthcare system that props up companies that price gouge and fuck over poor and working people as a tried and true business model.

I don’t think they just now randomly started to give a fuck about people over profits. I just don’t, sorry. That ship has sailed. I won’t be receiving this vaccine, ever.

 

[Phatguysrule]

My skepticism about taking an experimental vaccine for a disease I’m not at risk for is not about microchips and other weird shit. It’s mainly rooted in the fact that I live in a country with a for-profit healthcare system that props up companies that price gouge and fuck over poor and working people as a tried and true business model.

I don’t think they just now randomly started to give a fuck about people over profits. I just don’t, sorry. That ship has sailed. I won’t be receiving this vaccine, ever.

The vaccine is free... This is the one time they aren't price gouging poor people.

 

[stampedehero]

According to Forbes he mentioned it 13 times.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrew...-promoted-hydroxychloroquine/?sh=539535646432

Hence forth the suspicion arises that he owns stock in the company who manufacturers it.

 

[Lanny]

Well this is such a stupid post that it defies logic.

There is no reason that people shouldn’t have a choice to take HCQ as a prophylactic treatment. It’s been approved for general use in terms of safety for 65 years. I have no idea of the efficacy profile of it for Covid, but some doctors saw it work for patients. My cynical side says it’s because there isn’t billions of dollars to be made off of a generic, unlike a patented vaccine taxpayers are spending $200 a shot on human lab rats.

It’s sad to me to see dishonest politicians claim HCQ isn’t safe while at the same time lining up people for experimental vaccines. Look at how it made this guy make his stupid post. What do you do for a living? It obviously has nothing to do with medicine.

Taking it for Covid-19 is just plain stupid and dangerous unless under a doctor's supervision but what doctor would be stupid enough to prescribe hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19?

 

[jonnyboy]

The vaccine is free... This is the one time they aren't price gouging poor people.

Bullshit were all paying for it through taxes, national debt and our children not having a future. Pharma companies don’t give shit away for free. Trillion dollar bills don’t come from nowhere, someone’s going to collect on these debts and the politicians who got the loans and signed your name on the loan application aren’t going to be the ones face to face with the loan sharks. On what planet does it make sense for the stock markets to be up 70% in the face of unprecedented unemployment, evictions and homelessness? The building is getting looted before they torch it, it’s a free for all. People are giving up way too much for a false sense of security.

 

[Lanny]

Bullshit were all paying for it through taxes, national debt and our children not having a future. Pharma companies don’t give shit away for free. Trillion dollar bills don’t come from nowhere, someone’s going to collect on these debts and the politicians who got the loans and signed your name on the loan application aren’t going to be the ones face to face with the loan sharks. On what planet does it make sense for the stock markets to be up 70% in the face of unprecedented unemployment, evictions and homelessness? The building is getting looted before they torch it, it’s a free for all. People are giving up way too much for a false sense of security.

This is not new and I don't see any reason why it can't go on endlessly as long as the debt doesn't grow larger proportionally than the GDP.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Bullshit were all paying for it through taxes, national debt and our children not having a future. Pharma companies don’t give shit away for free. Trillion dollar bills don’t come from nowhere, someone’s going to collect on these debts and the politicians who got the loans and signed your name on the loan application aren’t going to be the ones face to face with the loan sharks. On what planet does it make sense for the stock markets to be up 70% in the face of unprecedented unemployment, evictions and homelessness? The building is getting looted before they torch it, it’s a free for all. People are giving up way too much for a false sense of security.

It's less than $15 billion to vaccinate the whole population. $15 billion to put out a $20 TRILLION fire is an INCREDIBLE value.

 

[riverman]

You can escape big pharma greed easily and move to Brasil, South Africa and India....they don't have any stinkin' vaccine laws! Choices damnit! Be the immune system ironman you believe you are! Take one for the team in the name of anarchy! I'll be fishing with my micro chip controlled American brain!

 

[jonnyboy]

It's less than $15 billion to vaccinate the whole population. $15 billion to put out a $20 TRILLION fire is an INCREDIBLE value.

I get it. I went on a tangent and didn’t mean to make it sound like pharma was wholly responsible. But it’s part of the problem. When people getting vaccines, medicine, etc. is contingent on slipping it into a trillion dollar bill with countless hidden bailouts and good ol boy pocket lining there is a huge problem. This thing isn’t sustainable. I know people have been saying it for years but I truly think we’re reaching some sort of tipping point.

 

[jonnyboy]

You can escape big pharma greed easily and move to Brasil, South Africa and India....they don't have any stinkin' vaccine laws! Choices damnit! Be the immune system ironman you believe you are! Take one for the team in the name of anarchy! I'll be fishing with my micro chip controlled American brain!

Yes, I can “easily” uproot my family and move thousands of miles away to a foreign country. So easy. It should be especially easy when I can’t fly, or even leave the country because of vaccine passports.

Why didn’t I think of that?

Why don’t cows just jump the fence and start a new life in San Francisco? It would be so easy.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I get it. I went on a tangent and didn’t mean to make it sound like pharma was wholly responsible. But it’s part of the problem. When people getting vaccines, medicine, etc. is contingent on slipping it into a trillion dollar bill with countless hidden bailouts and good ol boy pocket lining there is a huge problem. This thing isn’t sustainable. I know people have been saying it for years but I truly think we’re reaching some sort of tipping point.

Yes. It's incredibly important that we try to get dirty money out of politics, and make any other changes enabling and encouraging people to vote for the most capable people with the best ideas.

We'll need to amend the constitution and better educate our population.

Tribalism will only get in the way.

 

[riverman]

Yes, I can “easily” uproot my family and move thousands of miles away to a foreign country. So easy. It should be especially easy when I can’t fly, or even leave the country because of vaccine passports.

Why didn’t I think of that?

Why don’t cows just jump the fence and start a new life in San Francisco? It would be so easy.

nah.....what's easy is to go spend 20 minutes and get vaccinated .... how you got to relating yourself to a fenced in cow wanting to live in San Francisco is beyond me though.

 

[Lanny]

Yes, I can “easily” uproot my family and move thousands of miles away to a foreign country. So easy. It should be especially easy when I can’t fly, or even leave the country because of vaccine passports.

Why didn’t I think of that?

Why don’t cows just jump the fence and start a new life in San Francisco? It would be so easy.

How did cows get in this. This is really kinky and makes me think you're getting your ideas from Sly.

 

[jonnyboy]

nah.....what's easy is to go spend 20 minutes and get vaccinated .... how you got to relating yourself to a fenced in cow wanting to live in San Francisco is beyond me though.

You can’t pretend to know the long term effects of an experimental treatment that’s been out only a few months. I’m not willing to risk any side effects, even rare ones, to combat a disease I’ve already had that I have a .01 percent chance of dying from. Personal choice. I don’t see why everyone is so desperate to interject themselves into my personal affairs. I’m not trying to stop anyone from getting the shot, it’s a two way street. Nobody should ever need to know my medical history besides a doctor of my choice, not the government, and especially not some corporation. They can all eat a dick. The arm-twisting that’s going on is concerning and people are jumping on board like it’s normal. It’s not.

 

[barfo]

You can’t pretend to know the long term effects of an experimental treatment that’s been out only a few months. I’m not willing to risk any side effects, even rare ones, to combat a disease I’ve already had that I have a .01 percent chance of dying from. Personal choice. I don’t see why everyone is so desperate to interject themselves into my personal affairs. I’m not trying to stop anyone from getting the shot, it’s a two way street. Nobody should ever need to know my medical history besides a doctor of my choice, not the government, and especially not some corporation. They can all eat a dick. The arm-twisting that’s going on is concerning and people are jumping on board like it’s normal. It’s not.

It's not all about you, y'know. The disease is contagious.

barfo

 

[riverman]

You can’t pretend to know the long term effects of an experimental treatment that’s been out only a few months. I’m not willing to risk any side effects, even rare ones, to combat a disease I’ve already had that I have a .01 percent chance of dying from. Personal choice. I don’t see why everyone is so desperate to interject themselves into my personal affairs. I’m not trying to stop anyone from getting the shot, it’s a two way street. Nobody should ever need to know my medical history besides a doctor of my choice, not the government, and especially not some corporation. They can all eat a dick. The arm-twisting that’s going on is concerning and people are jumping on board like it’s normal. It’s not.

airborne virus sort of sets the table for breathing into other people's personal affairs.....and if you read my posts I 've said I support your right to deny vaccinations but warn you it's going to limit your options for PUBLIC health reasons....not private ones. You can be a host without dying from this shit....and you got the early version which is not nearly as dangerous as the mutated versions...which you can still get. This is a public forum...I only know you went out to a bar early in the pandemic and got covid early because you posted that here..... if the vaccine didn't kill off Chris Christie it's probably not going to kill you either....the fact that you got covid should be concerning you over long term effects more than the vaccine in my view....my grandaughter has asthma like conditions since she got it early and survived....she's only 20 years old. She didn't have breathing problems before. I'm not pretending to know shit....my heart doctor got the vaccine and he knows a bit about this stuff.....I asked him if my heart could take it and he assured me it wasn't a risk....being the guy who's saved my life when my heart failed....I'm going to trust his word over your skepticism

 

[Phatguysrule]

You can’t pretend to know the long term effects of an experimental treatment that’s been out only a few months. I’m not willing to risk any side effects, even rare ones, to combat a disease I’ve already had that I have a .01 percent chance of dying from. Personal choice. I don’t see why everyone is so desperate to interject themselves into my personal affairs. I’m not trying to stop anyone from getting the shot, it’s a two way street. Nobody should ever need to know my medical history besides a doctor of my choice, not the government, and especially not some corporation. They can all eat a dick. The arm-twisting that’s going on is concerning and people are jumping on board like it’s normal. It’s not.

Yes, you certainly can. You can know exactly how the body deals with a protein. There is nothing chemically unique about this vaccine which we have not already used billions of times on billions of people for many many years. Only the arrangement of the proteins, which we can know with a high degree of certainly what kind of responses to expect, and over what timeframe.

That you do not understand how this works doesn't mean it's bad. There is a lot of stuff you interact with every day which causes far more harm to far more people than this vaccine possibly could. We know this because every person educated enough to know about it says so, with a very high degree of certainty. The only people who have questioned the consensus have been people with other motives and/or people who are unqualified.

 

[Lanny]

You can’t pretend to know the long term effects of an experimental treatment that’s been out only a few months. I’m not willing to risk any side effects, even rare ones, to combat a disease I’ve already had that I have a .01 percent chance of dying from. Personal choice. I don’t see why everyone is so desperate to interject themselves into my personal affairs. I’m not trying to stop anyone from getting the shot, it’s a two way street. Nobody should ever need to know my medical history besides a doctor of my choice, not the government, and especially not some corporation. They can all eat a dick. The arm-twisting that’s going on is concerning and people are jumping on board like it’s normal. It’s not.

Hey, hey, you want me to eat a dick, which you gotta admit is a pretty strange order, and I haven't even said a word about you not taking a vaccination that would be good for you and those around you.

 

[Lanny]

airborne virus sort of sets the table for breathing into other people's personal affairs.....and if you read my posts I 've said I support your right to deny vaccinations but warn you it's going to limit your options for PUBLIC health reasons....not private ones. You can be a host without dying from this shit....and you got the early version which is not nearly as dangerous as the mutated versions...which you can still get. This is a public forum...I only know you went out to a bar early in the pandemic and got covid early because you posted that here..... if the vaccine didn't kill off Chris Christie it's probably not going to kill you either....the fact that you got covid should be concerning you over long term effects more than the vaccine in my view....my grandaughter has asthma like conditions since she got it early and survived....she's only 20 years old. She didn't have breathing problems before. I'm not pretending to know shit....my heart doctor got the vaccine and he knows a bit about this stuff.....I asked him if my heart could take it and he assured me it wasn't a risk....being the guy who's saved my life when my heart failed....I'm going to trust his word over your skepticism

Answer this, why on God's green earth does he want us to suck dick? I protest, in fact, I'm not doing it, not now, not ever.

 

[jonnyboy]

Yes, you certainly can. You can know exactly how the body deals with a protein. There is nothing chemically unique about this vaccine which we have not already used billions of times on billions of people for many many years. Only the arrangement of the proteins, which we can know with a high degree of certainly what kind of responses to expect, and over what timeframe.

That you do not understand how this works doesn't mean it's bad. There is a lot of stuff you interact with every day which causes far more harm to far more people than this vaccine possibly could. We know this because every person educated enough to know about it says so, with a very high degree of certainty. The only people who have questioned the consensus have been people with other motives and/or people who are unqualified.

This is simply not true. This treatment hasn’t been used in this way “billions of times”. That is a grossly over generalized statement. Yes, our bodies have dealt with spiked proteins from other wild viruses. But we’ve never been administered a treatment which re-trains our cells to produce these proteins. We don’t know at what rate or quantity each individual’s body will replicate these proteins, or how long they will continue to produce them. These are the same proteins which cause cell coagulation, blood clots and other serious conditions we’ve seen as a result of COVID, especially in the lungs and softer tissues. Training your body to deal with spiked proteins by producing them in-house is an interesting theory, but overproduction can cause serious problems and there are plenty of reputable medical doctors saying it could take years for your body to stockpile enough of these proteins to where it becomes a problem. It doesn’t mean the sky is falling and we’re all gonna die, but it is a legitimate medical concern to look at. People just don’t want to hear it though, they want their lives back. Can’t say I really blame them.

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is simply not true. This treatment hasn’t been used in this way “billions of times”. That is a grossly over generalized statement. Yes, our bodies have dealt with spiked proteins from other wild viruses. But we’ve never been administered a treatment which re-trains our cells to produce these proteins. We don’t know at what rate or quantity each individual’s body will replicate these proteins, or how long they will continue to produce them. These are the same proteins which cause cell coagulation, blood clots and other serious conditions we’ve seen as a result of COVID, especially in the lungs and softer tissues. Training your body to deal with spiked proteins by producing them in-house is an interesting theory, but overproduction can cause serious problems and there are plenty of reputable medical doctors saying it could take years for your body to stockpile enough of these proteins to where it becomes a problem. It doesn’t mean the sky is falling and we’re all gonna die, but it is a legitimate medical concern to look at. People just don’t want to hear it though, they want their lives back. Can’t say I really blame them.

No. The spike protein does not cause any of the problems you described. Proteins of any kind do not cause any of the problems you described.

They are absorbed by the body like any other protein. Proteins don't reproduce or attack anything. They are just protein. A molecule.

If what you claim were true we would have increased rates of blood clots and strokes from mrna vaccines and we just don't have that.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Ivanka is part of the deep state shot!

 

[Shaboid]

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...onal-patent-protections-for-covid-19-vaccines

We'll see if it ever actually happens. What is stopping the WHO from making this proposal, especially if there are hundreds of countries are in support?

 

[jonnyboy]

No. The spike protein does not cause any of the problems you described. Proteins of any kind do not cause any of the problems you described.

They are absorbed by the body like any other protein. Proteins don't reproduce or attack anything. They are just protein. A molecule.

If what you claim were true we would have increased rates of blood clots and strikes from mrna vaccines and we just don't have that.

Spike proteins cut the outer wall of a cell. It’s literally some virus’ mechanism for entering a cell to reproduce. Hence a corona virus being surrounded by them. Not all proteins are the same thing or serve the same purpose. And I know they don’t ‘reproduce’ in whatever fashion you think I implied. I don’t think they fuck and make baby proteins. The mRNA vaccine trains your cells to create these proteins on their own. The idea being that your cells will be able to recognize the ones around the actual COVID viruses that enter your body and be better prepared to quell them. The question some doctors and scientists were raising (how dare they) is at what rate and quantity these spike proteins are reproduced by the host cells, and are they shed at a fast enough rate to not have an influx of these spike proteins in the body? Nobody seems to be able to answer that question definitively, and it’s an important one.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Spike proteins cut the outer wall of a cell. It’s literally some virus’ mechanism for entering a cell to reproduce. Hence a corona virus being surrounded by them. Not all proteins are the same thing or serve the same purpose. And I know they don’t ‘reproduce’ in whatever fashion you think I implied. I don’t think they fuck and make baby proteins. The mRNA vaccine trains your cells to create these proteins on their own. The idea being that your cells will be able to recognize the ones around the actual COVID viruses that enter your body and be better prepared to quell them. The question some doctors and scientists were raising (how dare they) is at what rate and quantity these spike proteins are reproduced by the host cells, and are they shed at a fast enough rate to not have an influx of these spike proteins in the body? Nobody seems to be able to answer that question definitely, and it’s an important one.

It doesn't matter because the spike protein doesn't cause any damage. If it could, it would have already done so.