Are We Alone?

[deception]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2009/aug/17/ufo-mod-files

"Do not be afraid to contact us with whatever strange item you may wish to put to a sympathetic ear," the UK's Strange Phenomena Investigations group reassures people on its website. It is a message that does not seem to have fallen on deaf ears if the release of the latest batch of the Ministry of Defence's UFO files is anything to go by. Far from being afraid or embarrassed of reporting unexplained phenomena, the usually sceptical British public apparently report hundreds of UFO sightings a year.
Nick Pope, formerly of the MoD's UFO project is a believer who feels there could be security considerations for the UK.

The real problem with unexplained phenomena, of course is in the name – in other words the fact that it is unexplained. Footage is invariably unclear, prompting most people to reach instinctively for a rational explanation. And when the footage is clear, the sceptic in us inevitably takes over

-fyi both the uk and france have made public their ufo files and some of the cases they cant explain
-if u click on the link, the first you tube video is a bbc interview with a former uk minister of defense researcher on ufo incidents who is convinced ufo's are real
-personally im a cynic but im interested to hear what u guys think

 

[DaRizzle]

there is way too much space out there to think there is not other life...I also find it shortsided that some scientists think you must have water to have life...as if there are no other possibilities if a human cant think of them

 

[Denny Crane]

I haven't seen a shred of evidence there is life anywhere outside of earth. The opposite is true, actually. Everything is a gas ball, a frozen wasteland, or a frozen desert.

Plus if the odds of life out there are what the believers say they are, a broadcast we sent (any old one, TV or radio) 50 years ago would mean that anyone within 25 light years could have responded by now. And there's a LOT of stars within 25 light years. Not a peep.

 

[DaRizzle]

I haven't seen a shred of evidence there is life anywhere outside of earth. The opposite is true, actually. Everything is a gas ball, a frozen wasteland, or a frozen desert.

Plus if the odds of life out there are what the believers say they are, a broadcast we sent (any old one, TV or radio) 50 years ago would mean that anyone within 25 light years could have responded by now. And there's a LOT of stars within 25 light years. Not a peep.

We cant even comprehend how tiny we are in the universe. Exploring our galaxy is nothing compared to the vastness out there....

 

[Denny Crane]

We cant even comprehend how tiny we are in the universe. Exploring our galaxy is nothing compared to the vastness out there....

Milky Way is 100,000 light years across. The universe is about 65 billion light years across.

But if life on earth is any indication of things, it takes hold and is near impossible to kill off (we've had several near full extinctions, but nothing's killed everything).

Why wouldn't there be life within 25 light years?

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/nearstar.html

 

[DaRizzle]

lol, nice link

 

[¹²³]

I haven't seen a shred of evidence there is life anywhere outside of earth. The opposite is true, actually. Everything is a gas ball, a frozen wasteland, or a frozen desert.

Plus if the odds of life out there are what the believers say they are, a broadcast we sent (any old one, TV or radio) 50 years ago would mean that anyone within 25 light years could have responded by now. And there's a LOT of stars within 25 light years. Not a peep.

Only if that life has enough tecnology to receive and respond to the broadcast.

 

[Denny Crane]

Only if that life has enough tecnology to receive and respond to the broadcast.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/50lys.html

This is a map of every star within 50 light years visible with the naked eye from Earth. There are 133 stars marked on this map. Most of these stars are very similar to the Sun and it is probable that there are many Earth-like planets around these stars. There are roughly 1400 star systems within this volume of space containing 2000 stars, so this map only shows the brightest 10% of all the star systems

Still not a shred of evidence of even a microbe out there.

 

[barfo]

Only if that life has enough tecnology to receive and respond to the broadcast.

And is bored enough that they want to communicate with us.

barfo

 

[¹²³]

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/50lys.html

This is a map of every star within 50 light years visible with the naked eye from Earth. There are 133 stars marked on this map. Most of these stars are very similar to the Sun and it is probable that there are many Earth-like planets around these stars. There are roughly 1400 star systems within this volume of space containing 2000 stars, so this map only shows the brightest 10% of all the star systems

Still not a shred of evidence of even a microbe out there.

We don't have enough technology to collect evidences of microbes outside our solar system right now, so this isn't very relevant. We actually found limited evidence that microbial life might have existed or still exist on Mars.

 

[deception]

I haven't seen a shred of evidence there is life anywhere outside of earth. The opposite is true, actually. Everything is a gas ball, a frozen wasteland, or a frozen desert.

Plus if the odds of life out there are what the believers say they are, a broadcast we sent (any old one, TV or radio) 50 years ago would mean that anyone within 25 light years could have responded by now. And there's a LOT of stars within 25 light years. Not a peep.

i tend to agree with u but did u watch the interview with the uk ministry of defense official who believes in ufo's? its provided in the link

 

[DaRizzle]

And is bored enough that they want to communicate with us.

barfo

bingo, why should they care...maybe WE are the ones with crappy technology...do you want to talk all day to a mentally disabled person?

 

[Denny Crane]

We don't have enough technology to collect evidences of microbes outside our solar system right now, so this isn't very relevant. We actually found limited evidence that microbial life might have existed or still exist on Mars.

The evidence is unconvincing.

 

[Denny Crane]

i tend to agree with u but did u watch the interview with the uk ministry of defense official who believes in ufo's? its provided in the link

http://dsc.discovery.com/space/qa/alien-ufo-edgar-mitchell.html

I'm not convinced.

 

[deception]

http://www.physorg.com/news169736472.html

"Glycine is an amino acid used by living organisms to make proteins, and this is the first time an amino acid has been found in a comet," said Dr. Jamie Elsila of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. "Our discovery supports the theory that some of life's ingredients formed in space and were delivered to Earth long ago by meteorite and comet impacts."

Elsila is the lead author of a paper on this research accepted for publication in the journal Meteoritics and Planetary Science. The research will be presented during the meeting of the American Chemical Society at the Marriott Metro Center in Washington, August 16.

"The discovery of glycine in a comet supports the idea that the fundamental building blocks of life are prevalent in space, and strengthens the argument that life in the universe may be common rather than rare," said Dr. Carl Pilcher, Director of the NASA Astrobiology Institute which co-funded the research.

Proteins are the workhorse molecules of life, used in everything from structures like hair to enzymes, the catalysts that speed up or regulate chemical reactions. Just as the 26 letters of the alphabet are arranged in limitless combinations to make words, life uses 20 different amino acids in a huge variety of arrangements to build millions of different proteins.

-this came out this week

 

[speeds]

Skip to 3:48 if you are impatient.

 

[Denny Crane]

Skip to 3:48 if you are impatient.

Speeds,

I've heard Hawking talk about his belief that life must exist elsewhere.

But let me ask you a question.

If we're going to play a numbers and probability game to support this belief, then why isn't it also believable that there must be at least one other Steven Hawking (a clone, a literal copy, the same guy) out there?

 

[¹²³]

I tend to side with the “the rare Earth hypothesis”.

The book presents what the authors call “the rare Earth hypothesis”: simple (bacterial) life is very common in the universe; complex life (multi-cellular life forms, or animals -- let alone intelligent life) is very rare.

Link

 

[barfo]

If we're going to play a numbers and probability game to support this belief, then why isn't it also believable that there must be at least one other Steven Hawking (a clone, a literal copy, the same guy) out there?

Who says that's not believable?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I tend to side with the “the rare Earth hypothesis”.



Link

I do, too. I haven't read the book, just heard about it a bit.

There are a lot of variables other than chance that need to be considered.

Like the Earth's moon is really big in relationship to the planet, especially compared with all the planets we know about. The moon was a lot closer early on and the tidal forces really stirred things up. It also keeps the planet from wobbling a lot more than it does.

We have a magnetic field that protects us from deadly radiation from the sun. An ozone layer to protect us from UV.

We have plate tectonics, something I don't think we've found anywhere else to date.

It's estimated that 60% of all stars are binary (two or more stars) systems. I have no reason to expect those to support planets with life. I'm not factoring into that 60% that we have no reason to expect life to exist around any star unlike our own.

If the big bang theory is correct, we can clearly expect that stars close to us (like within the 25 and 50 light year radius I mentioned earlier) are the same age as us. Something 50 light years away is less than 50 years older/younger than us due to the fabric of spacetime stretching (like 1/2, so 50 light years would be only 25 real years difference). If Evolution is universal, and no reason to expect it isn't, then any life there should have basically evolved starting at the same time as ours.

Then there's the obvious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

 

[Denny Crane]

Who says that's not believable?

barfo

barfo barfo

 

[barfo]

If the big bang theory is correct, we can clearly expect that stars close to us (like within the 25 and 50 light year radius I mentioned earlier) are the same age as us. Something 50 light years away is less than 50 years older/younger than us due to the fabric of spacetime stretching (like 1/2, so 50 light years would be only 25 real years difference).

I'm not sure I agree with that analysis. While the matter near us might be the same age, the stars near us don't have to be the same age. If they formed by gravitational attraction of space junk, then one star might get a head start if it starts with a more massive collection of space junk. Small differences upfront could lead to large differences in when the star gets enough mass to start shining; similarly for the ages and development of planets that might be orbiting the stars.

barfo

 

[barfo]

barfo barfo

barfo barfo barfo

barfo

 

[Colonel Ronan]

What are your thoughts on this, barfo?

 

[barfo]

What are your thoughts on this, barfo?

I don't believe there is any intelligent life in the universe.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't believe there is any intelligent life in the universe.

barfo

For Brian's benefit:

There certainly isn't any in government.

 

[Denny Crane]

barfo barfo barfo

barfo

I was referring to the other barfo, but I hear he goes by the name ofrab and comes from a planet called Ork that's full of comedians.

 

[barfo]

I was referring to the other barfo, but I hear he goes by the name ofrab and comes from a planet called Ork that's full of comedians.

Yeah, that guy. Can't stand him.

barfo

 

[porky88]

For all we know some planets are dominated by dinosaur like species or a civilization once flourished in a different galaxy and is now extinct. There are many possibilities. Perhaps we are the most advanced civilization in the universe? Nobody ever talks about that. Most people think of Aliens as little green guys that can fly in ships that travel as fast as the speed of light. Maybe and maybe not. There is absolutely no way anyone can prove or disprove whether or not life exists outside of our solar system. It's just something we won't know unless we're ever able to harness enough energy to travel between solar systems and galaxies. Even then the universe is so big that we still wouldn't come up with a definite answer.

 

[speeds]

Speeds,

I've heard Hawking talk about his belief that life must exist elsewhere.

But let me ask you a question.

If we're going to play a numbers and probability game to support this belief, then why isn't it also believable that there must be at least one other Steven Hawking (a clone, a literal copy, the same guy) out there?

Is our definition of life as narrow as the exact characteristics of a Steven Hawking, from DNA to haircut? I suppose you're saying if Hawking is one in six billion, why aren't we one in seventy sextillion? Eventually you can narrow the scope of your search to the point where it is rather unlikely that you'll find a match. Considering how little we actually know about the origins of life on our planet I think it is a mistake to be overly specific/demanding in our criteria.