Ariza won't be suspended, Odom still being reviewed

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Odom suspended one game.

 

[DaRizzle]

I said you were "trying to reason" but I didn't mean to imply that you were reasonable.

And I have to say, I have to give you props for sticking around here today. You may be a completely misguided Laker fan but I think most of us like having you around. The other LA fans over here yapping are just reinforcing the negative stereotype.

i try

Honestly, its incidents like this that are the reason I hang out here. Who the fuck wants everybody agreeing 100% of the time. That would be very boring.

...but i do mean what i say, im not just arguing for the sake of arguing

 

[DaRizzle]

Odom suspended one game.

damn really? whatever...

 

[Nate Dogg]

From this shot from LA times it doesn't look like Ariza had his eyes on the ball.
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-03/45487553.jpg

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

hold on to your shorts!

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57830/20090310/lakers_odom_suspended_for_one_game/

 

[SodaPopinski]

Odom suspended one game.

Seems fair. And by the way I'm not concerned about this hurting us because the Lakers are playing the Rockets and we need the Rockets to lose. Odom has been playing like shit lately and you could make a pretty strong argument the Lakers will play better without him.

-Pop

 

[Da_O]

Dude, you're quoting Wikipedia????? Like that's an authorataive source???

Here's a link to the OFFICIAL NBA rule book at nba.com:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_12.html?nav=ArticleList

Please show me where the words intent or intentional are used.

BNM

I got it. I just typed in flagrant 1 and flagrant 2 in google and wikipedia was the first source. Usually wikipedia would have had the exact rule down, I didn't think it didn't. My interest is what it says at the bottom of the wikipedia link. That the delineation of the rules has definitely evolved.

I mean look at what just happened. Ariza didn't get suspended, was there excessive force? Yes, but no suspension. Why not? That's what LOTB is talking about.

 

[gatorpops]

BNM, Ill give you credit, you have given the most convincing arguments so far to the other side...but I still disagree.

Players get bopped in the head during a foul in virtually every NBA game that is played. Yes I know intent has nothing to do with deciding if its a flagrant or not. I mean, Ariza was 3 inches of clearance space away from making an amazing block. I obviously dont want players to get hurt but you gotta let them play...shit happens

From the angle of the replays he could not have ogtten to the ball except thru the head and if Rudy had not ducked a little I doubt that Ariza would have even hit the ball. And most importantly Ariza grabbed Rudy's wrist and held on turning him nearly around in the air and causing him to not be able to break his fall. THIS WAS FLAGRANT IN ANYONE'S BOOK OR SHOULD BE!

 

[LOTBfan]

Understand, I don't disagree, but flagrant does not carry a requisite suspension... so arguing if it is flagrant or not has nothing to do with whether he should be suspended or not.

 

[DaRizzle]

And most importantly Ariza grabbed Rudy's wrist and held on

ugh...are you messing with me? I swear Ive pointed this out on 5 different threads. Please look at the play in slow mo again. Ignore everything except the "grab" you claim...Just look at it several times, please...

Ariza didnt grab anything. Both of their momuntum brought their arms together and made contact at the wrists. I made Rudys fall worse but it was in no way on purpose. Just part of the contact

 

[gatorpops]

hold on to your shorts!

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57830/20090310/lakers_odom_suspended_for_one_game/[/QUOTE

I think the ruld should be they are suspended for one game with the team just played. Be far more fair.

 

[alex42083]

If the NBA is going to continue to be consistent with their bench-leaving rule, then Lamar deserved his one-game suspension. Lakers got a tough rest of the month with 8 of the 11 games out on the road. I hope they lose their HCA through the playoffs.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I got it. I just typed in flagrant 1 and flagrant 2 in google and wikipedia was the first source. Usually wikipedia would have had the exact rule down, I didn't think it didn't. My interest is what it says at the bottom of the wikipedia link. That the delineation of the rules has definitely evolved.

I mean look at what just happened. Ariza didn't get suspended, was there excessive force? Yes, but no suspension. Why not? That's what LOTB is talking about.

You need to understand how Wikipedia works. It's a collaborative knowledgebase. ANYBODY can contribute. Postings are supposed to be reviewed, but there is no guarantee that anything is accurate. It's a good place to get general high level knowledge, but NOT an authoratative source. It's basically some well meaning volunteer's interpretation of the rule.

But why rely on a second-hand interpretation. There is only ONE definitive source for information on NBA rules - the NBA rule book. The complete rule book is available online at NBA.com (links already posted).

BNM

 

[Minstrel]

Ariza didnt grab anything. Both of their momuntum brought their arms together and made contact at the wrists.

And he hooked Rudy's wrist, pulling him off-balance.

 

[DaRizzle]

And he hooked Rudy's wrist, pulling him off-balance.

yeah yeah yeah...i know you POV

 

[Da_O]

You need to understand how Wikipedia works. It's a collaborative knowledgebase. ANYBODY can contribute. Postings are supposed to be reviewed, but there is no guarantee that anything is accurate. It's a good place to get general high level knowledge, but NOT an authoratative source. It's basically some well meaning volunteer's interpretation of the rule.

But why rely on a second-hand interpretation. There is only ONE definitive source for information on NBA rules - the NBA rule book. The complete rule book is available online at NBA.com (links already posted).

BNM

I know how wikipedia works. Thanks for making assumptions though. I was already clearly corrected by LOTB so no need to be redundant.

Also to that part in bold, nearly all the stuff on wikipedia shows it source where the knowledge came from. So most stuff is actually accurate, not just opinion, which is how you make it sound. Take a look at the references it uses.

References

* NBA Rule Number 12: Fouls and Penalties
* NCAA Rule 4: Definitions
* NCAA Rule 10: Fouls and Penalties in 2008 NCAA Men's and Women's Basketball Rules
* NFHS Rule 2: Definitions 2-16c

c. Flagrant — a foul so severe or extreme that it places an opponent in danger of serious injury, and/or involves violations that are extremely or persistently vulgar or abusive conduct.

* NFHS Rule 10: Fouls and Penalties

How did I not see that.

 

[Masbee]

ugh...are you messing with me? I swear Ive pointed this out on 5 different threads. Please look at the play in slow mo again. Ignore everything except the "grab" you claim...Just look at it several times, please...

Ariza didnt grab anything. Both of their momuntum brought their arms together and made contact at the wrists. I made Rudys fall worse but it was in no way on purpose. Just part of the contact

How in the heck do you KNOW that Ariza did not intend to either initiate that contact or persist with that contact?

How the fuck do you KNOW?

 

[LOTBfan]

Da O: good sport +1 for talking slowly so everyone can understand.

 

[DaRizzle]

How in the heck do you KNOW that Ariza did not intend to either initiate that contact or persist with that contact?

How the fuck do you KNOW?

cause I watched the replay?

Ariza wasnt even looking in the direction of Rudy when their arms hit each other...there was no plan of dragging him down, he didnt have the time even if he wanted to plan it

 

[RR7]

He wasn't looking in the direction of Rudy? Well how can one be trying to time a leap just perfectly to execute an incredible block if they aren't even looking at the player? I mean, that's incredible.

 

[DaRizzle]

He wasn't looking in the direction of Rudy? Well how can one be trying to time a leap just perfectly to execute an incredible block if they aren't even looking at the player? I mean, that's incredible.

Oh jesus.... sorry let me spell it out for you...

When that part of the incident occurred (arms hitting) Ariza was already spotting his landing

 

[Da_O]

Da O: good sport +1 for talking slowly so everyone can understand.

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[LittleAlex]

ugh...are you messing with me? I swear Ive pointed this out on 5 different threads. Please look at the play in slow mo again. Ignore everything except the "grab" you claim...Just look at it several times, please...

Ariza didnt grab anything. Both of their momuntum brought their arms together and made contact at the wrists. I made Rudys fall worse but it was in no way on purpose. Just part of the contact

I find the fact that you are watching this over and over again pretty disturbing. I was at the game, saw it once and figured that was enough.

Not suprising though. If you watch enough times, maybe you can convince yourself Ariza was fouled by Rudy.

 

[DaRizzle]

I find the fact that you are watching this over and over again pretty disturbing. I was at the game, saw it once and figured that was enough.

Not suprising though. If you watch enough times, maybe you can convince yourself Ariza was fouled by Rudy.

really...you are arguing sitting in the stands and seeing it in real time is a better view than watching 5 different angles in slow mo....okay

...and where exactly were your seats? In front of the camera man sitting baseline I can only assume

 

[RR7]

Oh jesus.... sorry let me spell it out for you...

When that part of the incident occurred (arms hitting) Ariza was already spotting his landing

Really? Oh Boy! Thanks for spelling it out for me.

Odd. He sure looks to be looking at him. Although, by your thought, before he even gets contact on a block, he is already looking to land, as opposed to looking to make a block. Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

 

[Masbee]

cause I watched the replay?

Ariza wasnt even looking in the direction of Rudy when their arms hit each other...there was no plan of dragging him down, he didnt have the time even if he wanted to plan it

Comical.

Your rationalizations for why Ariza's "message" hard foul in front of his complaining the team is soft coach, as the team was getting blown out, WAS NOT IN FACT AN INTENTIONAL HARD FOUL, are old at this point.

Either Ariza went in the motion with some level of malice, or he didn't. If he did, the heat of the moment can cause him to do just about anything - including hanging on to whatever contact there is to give Rudy a little extra something-something. You know, to let him know Ariza was there.

Do you actually think that NBA players are taught to grab a limb, hold onto it, and then yank it? Please. They are taught how to impact another body in natural looking motions. Like bringing your arms down, when keeping them up is just as normal. Why were Arizas arms coming down? If Ariza were going in for a layup, he could/would have kept him arms up the entire time. He didn't HAVE to bring his arms down onto Rudy.

 

[DaRizzle]

Really? Oh Boy! Thanks for spelling it out for me.

Odd. He sure looks to be looking at him. Although, by your thought, before he even gets contact on a block, he is already looking to land, as opposed to looking to make a block. Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

wow...this is amazing...you are basing your argument on a still frame now??? You realize their arms havent made contact yet right????? right???

 

[RR7]

Are you serious? Are you??? You watched it a dozen or so times. You do realize his right arm was hit first, hence the odd angle in that picture. Then, you can see his head at an odd angle as well, also from getting hit. But yeah, that's before contact. Watch it another dozen or so times, and see if you can actually know what the fuck you're talking about. Thanks.
I'm basing it off a still picture, you can't even look at a still picture and see what's happening. Nice. Right?? Right?? How many more question marks until I get to look as stupid as you do?

 

[DaRizzle]

So I was wrong about one thing. Ariza wasnt spotting his landing. I was wrong. See! Im not some smug Laker fan as somebody claimed earlier.


But just look at the swat attempt. For sake of argument lets just say Ariza was going for his head. After swinging through how the hell are you gonna instantly stop the momentum of your arm? Their arms were gonna collide no matter what
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[DaRizzle]

Are you serious? Are you??? You watched it a dozen or so times. You do realize his right arm was hit first, hence the odd angle in that picture. Then, you can see his head at an odd angle as well, also from getting hit. But yeah, that's before contact. Watch it another dozen or so times, and see if you can actually know what the fuck you're talking about. Thanks.
I'm basing it off a still picture, you can't even look at a still picture and see what's happening. Nice. Right?? Right?? How many more question marks until I get to look as stupid as you do?

The arm we are all talking about is Rudys left arm, the one that Ariza hit to spin him around


edit: btw, i love you too rr7