Around the NBA 2022 Playoffs: The Thread

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Fairly-Hard said:
Kind of why I felt they won the trade by a wide margin. I felt Harden and Simmons was a pretty even deal.
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"wide margin"....really?

unless and until Simmons can come back and be close to the player he was (which is certainly not a sure thing) you can't really set any solid value on him. It's a hell of a lot less than it was a year ago. Harden averaged 21-7-11 for Philly with a .601 TS%. Those are good numbers over a short 21 game stint.

* Curry just averaged 14 points and 3 assists in the playoffs. He's a really good shooter but his talent is right around MLE

* Drummond is a dinosaur C worth a vet minimum deal and no more. He just averaged 3.7 points and 3 rebounds in 4 playoff games

* the picks will be the 23rd pick this draft, and either a 2027 or 2028 first (top-8 protected; if not conveyed a 2028 2nd)

I don't see any 'wide margin' in value at all. I've seen plenty of 'both-teams-won' trades. This trade might eventually be a 'both-teams-lost' situation but at this point, it looks like Philly won. They have Maxey who has stepped into any void Curry left, and looks to be an upgrade. And they haven't really missed Drummond. And, they have Harden now. At the cost of a 23rd pick
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I dunno - I think the Rockets made out pretty well.
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ok...let's look at that:

• Victor Oladipo
• Dante Exum
• Rodions Kurucs

LOL....ok. That part of the trade doesn't need to be examined. Shuffling around minimum to no value players

* • Rockets option to swap 2021 first round picks (Blazers, Heat, Pistons, Rockets, Thunder) with Nets (not exercised)

(no value)

* • 2022 first round pick (from Nets) (?-?)

17th pick this draft

* • Rockets option to swap 2023 first round picks with Nets (?-?)

(pretty safe to say it won't be exercised...likely no value)

* • 2024 first round pick (from Nets) (?-?)
* • Rockets option to swap 2025 first round picks (Rockets, Thunder) with Nets (?-?)
* • 2026 first round pick (from Nets) (?-?)
* • Rockets option to swap 2027 first round picks with Nets (?-?)

now, there might be some decent value here depending on what the Nets do. Two firsts could be good picks, or not. But they come 3.5 and 5.5 years after the trade. And the swaps only have value if Houston is a considerably better team than the Nets

in other words, what you are calling the Rockets "making out pretty well" is 3 players who had poor value and combined to play 20 games for Houston; an upcoming 17th pick; two future 1st's of undetermined value conveying in the 4th and 6th drafts after the trade; and 3 pick swaps that might never be conveyed.

The 'real' value is a 17th pick and far future picks

Blazers getting that kind of value for Dame would be a fucking disaster
 
wizenheimer said:
why does anybody think the Nets will trade Simmons this soon after landing him?
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:dunno: This team was supposed to be a serious contender, maybe even the favorite. Instead they left a smoking crater in their wake. Even if they make Nash the scapegoat, the fans will be howling for major roster change.
 
oldmangrouch said:
:dunno: This team was supposed to be a serious contender, maybe even the favorite. Instead they left a smoking crater in their wake. Even if they make Nash the scapegoat, the fans will be howling for major roster change.
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in other words, there is no reason to believe the Nets will trade Simmons before he's ever played a game for them.

by the way...they had the major roster change in Feb.
 
wizenheimer said:
unless and until Simmons can come back and be close to the player he was (which is certainly not a sure thing) you can't really set any solid value on him.
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You seem to understand the point i was making.
 
will utah split up gobert and mitchell ? any way to get gobert? prolly not
 
Cugel said:
will utah split up gobert and mitchell ? any way to get gobert? prolly not
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Does Gobert provide value on his massive contract?

His team always seems to disappoint in the playoffs. I don't think you can build a contending team with him as one of your high paid stars. Embiid, Jokic, healthy Anthony Davis can win titles as centers. Gobert isn't on their level but is paid the same.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Does Gobert provide value on his massive contract?

His team always seems to disappoint in the playoffs. I don't think you can build a contending team with him as one of your high paid stars. Embiid, Jokic, healthy Anthony Davis can win titles as centers. Gobert isn't on their level but is paid the same.
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Watch Gobert go to the Mavs and them run off a few championships.

And we don't know if Embiid or Jokic can win championships, do we?
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Watch Gobert go to the Mavs and them run off a few championships.
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Who goes to Utah in that scenario? I don't think anyone doubts what Gobert brings to the table, just that his salary hinders certain teams from adding stars around him due to his contract. Gobert is a very good complimentary player. But will he be worth 40+ million in a couple of years? He shoots a high percentage because he makes a lot of dunks. Nothing wrong with that, but he is certanly not a go-to player. But he is a very effective defender. Overall he is a good player being paid as a superstar, which he is not.
 
Side note: I doubt there is any way the Nets trade Simmons as Wiz said. But here’s why:

If they trade him this fast, without him playing, that signals to rest of the league there is a “major” red flag and they would get a fraction of a fraction of “Pennies on the dollar” for him.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Does Gobert provide value on his massive contract? His team always seems to disappoint in the playoffs.
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Let's see if it still does once it doesn't have Donovan Mitchell on it.

I think a better description would be that Gobert's teams overachieve in the regular season, but don't have enough varied scoring to win in the playoffs. I think Gobert should be compared with Draymond Green - give Gobert Curry and two other elite shooters and see how he does in the playoffs. (Yes, I know Draymond isn't paid like a superstar, but he absolutely should be given his importance to the Warriors.)
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Watch Gobert go to the Mavs and them run off a few championships.

And we don't know if Embiid or Jokic can win championships, do we?
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Watch player x go to Mavs and win championships, you could say this about anybody. Two years ago it was supposed to be Porzingis.

We know Embiid or Jokic can carry their team on an MVP level. Jokic lead his to the conference finals. Gobert team has been played off the floor opposed to middling talent in the postseason for years going back to a few Rockets series, and against a Kawhi less Clips last year. Year prior they lost to the younger Nuggets.

Gobert is a very nice center, but he's not close to the MVP star class with Embiid, Jokic, Giannis, Durant, etc level of players.

With Gobert on his super massive contract you can only really pair him with one other super max player, that type of roster is unlikely to build a contender IMO as we've seen in Utah. Now if he is paired with one of those MVP players I mentioned sure, but you could probably have 50+ players in the league pair an MVP to build a contender.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
You just watched four games and you came up with "CJ is trash"? Go ask Brandon Ingram if CJ is trash. While you're at it as Jonas as well.
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Just got off the phone with Jonas. He says they’re “coping” with CJ. I texted BI but he hasn’t gotten back to me yet
 
illmatic99 said:
Utah's problem isn't Gobert.

But it's inevitable that he will be the scapegoat.
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You are probably right. I really haven't watched too many Jazz games of late, but I do have some die-hard Jazz fan friends. They keep saying that the team has no heart. Not sure if that is true but if I had to guess who the fault lies with....... my money is with Mitchell. I think he is an awesome talent, but from the limited times I have watched Utah, Donavan plays best when he is running the team. But I am not sure the rest of the team plays best when he is dominating the ball. This is why I questioned the Conely trade in the first place. Regardless there is something about Mitchell that rubs me the wrong way. I question his leadership skills.
 
Mitchell has been terrible. One of my best friends is a big Jazz fan and wants to be done with him - his inability to get others involved is driving him insane.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
You just watched four games and you came up with "CJ is trash"? Go ask Brandon Ingram if CJ is trash. While you're at it as Jonas as well.
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I thought Brandon Ingram was a lot like CJ though? At least that’s what people were saying when this forum was discussing trades for CJ.
 
Anyone want to talk about the Sixers/Raptors series? This was posted at realGM.

On blowing 3-0 lead:
“Everything Doc (Rivers) has ever done in his career has led right to this possible achievement.”
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Anyone want to talk about the Sixers/Raptors series? This was posted at realGM.

On blowing 3-0 lead:
“Everything Doc (Rivers) has ever done in his career has led right to this possible achievement.”
Click to expand...
Harden is playing himself out of a supermax deal in this series.
 
Philly can't play worse than they did last night so we'll see if it goes seven...

 
illmatic99 said:
Utah's problem isn't Gobert.

But it's inevitable that he will be the scapegoat.
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The problem isn’t necessarily Gobert. But it’s the fact that last year against the clippers, they literally played him off the court. If you’re paying someone 40 million and they can “get played off the court” that’s a massive, massive issue and partially why I’ve been against Ben Simmons. That’s also why the Draymond Green reference earlier doesn’t make sense. You can’t play Draymond off the court AND Draymond makes much less than Rudy. And even if you could play Draymond off the court, since he makes much less than Rudy they’ve been able to spend money elsewhere. So the problem is Rudy’s only really to matchup with traditional lineups (easily countered by going small w/speed) AND he makes way too much money.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Anyone want to talk about the Sixers/Raptors series? This was posted at realGM.

On blowing 3-0 lead:
“Everything Doc (Rivers) has ever done in his career has led right to this possible achievement.”
Click to expand...

You think Mike D’Antoni will coach the 76ers next year?
 
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