Around the NBA: December to Remember 2018

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dviss1 said:
It's not that hard. Couple things:

Not every kid who makes it to the NBA plays AAU.

He didn't say shit about the AAU system. He specifically said:

'Take the best kids 7 years before they're an McDonald's all American" (those kids would be 4th and 5th graders)

Then denounced the things black people do like "taunt" and "put together mixtapes".

He's talking about and denouncing basketball culture. Culture that has been created by black people.
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Sorry you can ignore my other post. I didn't see this.
 
kjironman1 said:
It's always funny to me when people who might experience racism are the first to classify who does and who doesn't experience racism. Then they also want to try to tell others what is and isn't racism.
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NBA analysts are usually experts in their field.
 
dviss1 said:
Stop. This is fucking bullshit bones.
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You denounce anyone who interprets vague, non-blatant comments comments as not racist. I've never experienced racism. Doesnt mean im blind. Doesnt mean you're the only one who can see racism or objectively interpret comments in a different way than you.

That's an extreme anology.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
@dviss1
I absolutely understand that I have never dealt with Racism the way most (if not all Blacks) have. I didn't really read Cubans comments and think that's racist, or really about race at all. I immediately thought of my personal experiences with HS / AAU and my families experiences as well. I will certainly not deny there could be racial motivation to what he said that I didn't get.
I don't want to get into an argument with you, I literally just would like help in understanding why some people have taken it as a purely racist comment, with racist intent.
Respectfully, even if you would rather do it in a private convo could you help me understand why from your perspective, it's a racist comment.

Also what I do to combat racism, is pretty easy... I help those in need, no matter what color they are. I respect people no matter what color they are, or what they believe. I teach my kids to love people. I try to call it out when I see it, I don't stand idly by when someone's getting beaten up, or mocked because of their race and yes I've actually seen it and gotten in fights with white kids who were doing it.

Anyways you may very well be right, and it was racist. I can see that "partially" and I know Cuban has a history of things too. Personally, for anyone who is different than me, whether it's color, creed, gender, etc. I feel like the least they can do is help me to understand what they're going through, or why they take things differently than I do. I can't walk in other people's shoes (figuratively), just like no one here knows what it's like to be me. I try to be a respectful, caring person so I can assure you I didn't read it differently just because I don't want to see it.

Sorry if you already explained it to me and I missed.
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You're a cool cat. I appreciate you. Thanks for listening.
 
BonesJones said:
You denounce anyone who interprets vague, non-blatant comments comments as not racist. I've never experienced racism. Doesnt mean im blind. Doesnt mean you're the only one who can see racism or objectively interpret comments in a different way than you.

That's an extreme anology.
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Please tell me who I denounced in this thread... That literally didn't happen. Telling someone they've never experienced racism isn't denouncing anyone...

You tried to say when I told my son that once the white people pick it up (regarding our culture/dabbing/dances etc) that it's time for him to put it down and create something new, that that was racist.

It's not.
 
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dviss1 said:
It's not that hard. Couple things:

Not every kid who makes it to the NBA plays AAU.

He didn't say shit about the AAU system. He specifically said:

'Take the best kids 7 years before they're an McDonald's all American" (those kids would be 4th and 5th graders)

Then denounced the things black people do like "taunt" and "put together mixtapes".

He's talking about and denouncing basketball culture. Culture that has been created by black people.
Click to expand...
D, as a referee what is your take on taunting starting in elementary school?
Now, I don't know Cubans heart but don't you think he was talking about taunting as something that shouldn't be allowed in the game and the teaching regardless where starts with youngsters.
Because he was referring to an academy of basketball, Im quickly thinking about teaching and coaching with a certain game/court discipline that helps mold character.
 
dviss1 said:
Please tell me who I denounced in this thread... That literally didn't happen. Telling someone they've never experienced racism isn't denouncing anyone...

You tried to say when I told my son that once the white people pick it up (regarding our culture/dabbing/dances etc) that it's time for him to put it down and create something new, that that was racist.

It's not.
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You obviously didnt understand that I was joking, not understand the underlying context that related it to what goes in in here.
 
Hoopguru said:
D, as a referee what is your take on taunting starting in elementary school?
Now, I don't know Cubans heart but don't you think he was talking about taunting as something that shouldn't be allowed in the game and the teaching regardless where starts with youngsters.
Because he was referring to an academy of basketball, Im quickly thinking about teaching and coaching with a certain game/court discipline that helps mold character.
Click to expand...

My own experience (playing) is that's how basketball has always been. That's been the culture. People have always talked shit while playing. Sometimes it got pretty intense and yes there were fights.

My experience while refereeing is that it rarely happens (to a level that requires a penalty). In my 16 years of refereeing, I've never had a fight on my floor.

When Cuban talks about taunting her should talk to Dirk about how he tells players to start learning Chinese.

And Cuban was referring to the culture.
 
dviss1 said:
It's not that hard. Couple things:

Not every kid who makes it to the NBA plays AAU.

He didn't say shit about the AAU system. He specifically said:

'Take the best kids 7 years before they're an McDonald's all American" (those kids would be 4th and 5th graders)

Then denounced the things black people do like "taunt" and "put together mixtapes".

He's talking about and denouncing basketball culture. Culture that has been created by black people.
Click to expand...
This was Mark's comment:
“It is important because you’re used to people being older than you but I think he just learned how to play basketball and that’s the biggest gift. When you’re gifted as he is and you actually learn to play the game. If you look at the basketball education of kids starting at 11 years old in Europe and particularly Slovenia which is basketball oriented.

“If we took our best kids and seven years before they are McDonald’s All-Americans, we sent them over to Slovenia to get an education, the league would be a thousand times better. They just learn how to play basketball while our guys learn how to dunk and put together mixtapes.”

I guess if you see the American basketball culture as being shaped by black people than I suppose can see why you would think he's throwing shade at Blacks.
I'm not really sure I see it as a direct "shot" towards Blacks, but I will listen and try to understand it.

One thing I'd like to note but I (maybe wrongly) believe that one way racism shows it's face in America is education. Unfortunately most schools in inner cities, that have a lot of diversity don't get the proper funding, are controlled by old (mostly white) union leaders who love to give themselves pay raises instead of support the schools and teachers they're supposed to represent. I think this puts inner city kids, at a disadvantage from a early age, not because they are dumb because of their color, or even dumb at all but because they don't receive the resources are the resources that are available are spent on the wrong people. Now I have no idea how the education system over all is in Slovenia (chances are Mark doesn't either), I would totally love to see the United State do a much better job of educating it's inner city kids.

I went to Benson and Marshall my 1st two years of highschool for computer science courses, those schools were not maintained well, most of the teachers didn't care, there were a lot of issues...

The mixtape thing, well part of basketball is just that nowadays with camera's it's fun to school somebody and have it on video, and honestly only the good players make enough plays to even have a mixtape so I'm not quite sure why that's a problem, I had seen Luka "mixtapes" long before he was drafted, did he have a problem with that...? I did find that many really athletic guys never really had to learn the nuances of how to play basketball.

Anyways thanks for posting this, it's given me food for thought and helps me to understand at least somewhat why you and others feel it was racist, or at the least motivated by a desire to take a shot at Black culture.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I guess if you see the American basketball culture as being shaped by black people than I suppose can see why you would think he's throwing shade at Blacks.
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Exactly! It's like some people don't realize a very large portion of the kids in America right now are making mix tapes. The ones that are trying to play basketball are trying to Dunk and shoot Three's. There is no color mentioned here. This statement is about a culture in another country that teaches basketball fundamentals better than we do here in the states and the sad state of the league as it is right now. Unfortunately he is absolutely correct.
 
kjironman1 said:
Exactly! It's like some people don't realize a very large portion of the kids in America right now are making mix tapes. The ones that are trying to play basketball are trying to Dunk and shoot Three's. There is no color mentioned here. This statement is about a culture in another country that teaches basketball fundamentals better than we do here in the states and the sad state of the league as it is right now. Unfortunately he is absolutely correct.
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Well theres a lot of basketball culture that comes from inner cities like Philly, NY, LA, and Chicago that are predominately black. I believe they are saying that Cubans comments are aimed at not just the AAU but at those who come up from the parks.

He mentions Slovenia its not like Slovenia is a hot bed for NBA talent...
I guess while I didnt read it as a racist comment, in the context of that I can see why others do. Which is an important step for all of us, understanding others.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
He mentions Slovenia its not like Slovenia is a hot bed for NBA talent...
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You might want to rethink that.
Slovenia has not only it's own professional league that has 10 teams but it has produced a number of NBA players Dragic, Beno Udrih, Sasha Vujacic, Rasho Nesterovic and now Doncic. This country is half the size of Oregon and has half the population. When is the last time a player born in Oregon was a NBA player? Damon Staudamire? Not sure he was born here?

Maybe not a "Hot Bed". But that country is all about basketball. It was only a matter of time until they produced a player like Doncic. And now every kid in Slovenia is going to want to be "Just lika Luka"!
 
kjironman1 said:
You might want to rethink that.
Slovenia has not only it's own professional league that has 10 teams but it has produced a number of NBA players Dragic, Beno Udrih, Sasha Vujacic, Rasho Nesterovic and now Doncic. This country is half the size of Oregon and has half the population. When is the last time a player born in Oregon was a NBA player? Damon Staudamire? Not sure he was born here?

Maybe not a "Hot Bed". But that country is all about basketball. It was only a matter of time until they produced a player like Doncic. And now every kid in Slovenia is going to want to be "Just lika Luka"!
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Doncic is literally the only guy that's any good.
Edit: To be "fair" Dragic isn't bad.
Also if you think that slovenia list is impressive. This is just portland, OR.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/birth-cities/117/Portland-OR-United-States
 
kjironman1 said:
You might want to rethink that.
Slovenia has not only it's own professional league that has 10 teams but it has produced a number of NBA players Dragic, Beno Udrih, Sasha Vujacic, Rasho Nesterovic and now Doncic. This country is half the size of Oregon and has half the population. When is the last time a player born in Oregon was a NBA player? Damon Staudamire? Not sure he was born here?

Maybe not a "Hot Bed". But that country is all about basketball. It was only a matter of time until they produced a player like Doncic. And now every kid in Slovenia is going to want to be "Just lika Luka"!
Click to expand...

For starters, I think the fact you're comparing a country to a state brings up an issue of equivalence, tho i see your bigger point.

As to the last time an NBA player born in Oregon was an NBA player?

Damon was born in Portland, as was Terrell Brandon, AC Green, Ime Udoka (I think?), Ronnie Brewer, Dan Dickau, Terrence Jones (2017), Kyle Singler (last year), Salim Stoudamire and currently Terrence Ross and Domantas Sabonis.

Now granted, a player born in Portland doesn't necessarily mean they grew up here. But like I said, it's different compare a nation with a state. I'm guessing it's much easier to move from Portland to New York than it is to move from Slovenia to France or something.
 
kjironman1 said:
Exactly! It's like some people don't realize a very large portion of the kids in America right now are making mix tapes. The ones that are trying to play basketball are trying to Dunk and shoot Three's. There is no color mentioned here. This statement is about a culture in another country that teaches basketball fundamentals better than we do here in the states and the sad state of the league as it is right now. Unfortunately he is absolutely correct.
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Stop. Our country is full of racist assholes and the people who give them cover. I literally encounter them everyday. The very minute we accept that and accept that's what this country was built upon (genocide and racism), the sooner white people can right their ancestors wrongs.

You don't have to blatantly call someone the N to be a racist...

Fix this shit.
 
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I don't think a lot of people here understand how institutionalized racism is in our country. How ingrained it is where you don't even notice it. Because it's normal. The line isn't... someone says N*****, they're racist, they don't, they're ok.
 
dviss1 said:
Stop. Our country is full of racist assholes and the people who give them cover. I literally encounter them everyday. The very minute we accept that and accept that's what this country was built upon (genocide and racism), the sooner white people can right their ancestors wrongs.

You don't have to blatantly call someone the N to be a racist...

Fix this shit.
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Not making excuses at all but the founding of almost large civilizations throughout history came about by similar things. Really in terms of conquering land, what happened in America was pretty normal.
Also Racism is a world wide issue. Mongolians and Chinese, Isreal and Islam, Europeans are notorious for not liking their neighbors. White people are hates black people are hated, brown, red, whatever.
I hated US history (and my initial college major was in History), but to me the “sins” of this country really came about after they had the land. It wasnt the foundation persay because yes while conquering the way they did was bad, it was par for the course historically speaking.

The elite since then have been mostly about making money, we are by far the greediest nation in the history of this planet and if you know history at all, that statement speaks volumes.

They brought Africans by shipment like cattle, treated them like cattle for profits. The entire reason black people were herec to begin with was to make white people money. Unfortunately and this is where I get so annoyed is I believe that while blacks are no longer technically slaves, and that yes America has gotten “better”, politicians still exploit minorities for their own gain for their pocketbooks. So while on the surface I dont think anyone can deny a black persons existence is a LOT better than it was even 20 years ago there really has not been much change in the status of most Black people. I think most people in America understand that Blacks and whites are both equally human, but I also believe that the tactics our politicians use to engross fear in us and divide us is absolutely awful...
 
RR7 said:
I don't think a lot of people here understand how institutionalized racism is in our country. How ingrained it is where you don't even notice it. Because it's normal. The line isn't... someone says N*****, they're racist, they don't, they're ok.
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Its 100% true. I just dont think that Cuban's comments were racist, and I dont think I cant have a just opinion on the context of a statement just because Im white.
 
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