Around the NBA: February 2016

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And the Thunder lose. I hate the Thunder. Curry hit game winner, I love it.
 
Jazz lose to Brooklyn at home.

Grizzlies are losing to Suns team that has lost 13 in a row.

5th seed is looking possible for us.
 
Fonzthecpt1 said:
Curry isn't human
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The dude is in some kind of zone. He just hits shots that nobody has any business hitting. I've never seen anything like it. Dame is really good, but Curry is just ridiculous. I thought it was silly at first, but he probably is the best shooter in NBA history.
 
Curry if he continues to play like this for 4 or 5 more seasons I don't see how he isn't the best basketball player of all time
 
I disagree with that. Jordan shot an unbelievable percentage from the floor despite 3 people hanging on him. He was defensive player of the year. 10 scoring titles. 6 championships. 6 NBA Finals MVPs (Steph doesn't have one). Curry has a loooong way to go catch that man. LeBron is better too. Twice, he's taken a crappy Cleveland team to the Finals. And there's Larry Bird. That dude was a ridiculously good player in every facet of the game. Curry has the CHANCE to be a top 10 player in NBA history but I think GOAT is not in his wheelhouse.
 
KingAlbertoJrSpeed said:
I disagree with that. Jordan shot an unbelievable percentage from the floor despite 3 people hanging on him. He was defensive player of the year. 10 scoring titles. 6 championships. 6 NBA Finals MVPs (Steph doesn't have one). Curry has a loooong way to go catch that man. LeBron is better too. Twice, he's taken a crappy Cleveland team to the Finals. And there's Larry Bird. That dude was a ridiculously good player in every facet of the game. Curry has the CHANCE to be a top 10 player in NBA history but I think GOAT is not in his wheelhouse.
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I think Golden State is getting more credit than they deserve. I think that team is middle-of-the-pack without Curry. I think he's elevating that team. The Bulls still made the ECF without Jordan. I'm not sure the Warriors make it to the second round without Curry.
 
I don't think Curry is likely to end up GOAT, mostly because he can't match up with Jordan defensively. But he's not a worse defender than players like Magic Johnson and Larry Bird...like both of those guys, he's not a great one-on-one defender but he's a smart team defender who play with good technique, funnels his man to the right places in the defensive scheme and plays passing lanes well.

I think Magic's point is that he's such a unique offensive weapon, he may push himself into that argument just by how he warps games. Arguably, he warps games more than Jordan did, due to his unprecedented range. Jordan was unstoppable too, but Curry stretches defenses in ways no player has ever done. Jordan made the mid-range his domain, which has limited ability to completely distort defenses. Curry needs to be accounted for almost out to 40 feet. It's crazy, really.
 
Natebishop3 said:
The dude is in some kind of zone. He just hits shots that nobody has any business hitting. I've never seen anything like it. Dame is really good, but Curry is just ridiculous. I thought it was silly at first, but he probably is the best shooter in NBA history.
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Somebody turned the sliders all the way up man, no other explanation.
 
I can't believe how the Thunder choked that away... all they had to do was hold on to the ball and have them foul.... but no. And THEN the foul on Iggy at the end of regulation.

That team is not mentally strong to win a championship.

I love it.
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
For a team with 2 of the 5 best NBA players the Thunder really struggle.
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Westbrook isn't one of the 5 best NBA players. He's not even one of the 10 best. Maybe he sneaks into the top15. A top5 NBA player doesn't miss 19 shots with 7 turnovers. Thats not just stats from one game; he's had those hero ball hogging moments his entire career. Curry, LeBron, Lowry, Butler, Kawhi, Draymond, Davis, Aldridge, Harden, Cousins, Durant, CP3, Griffin, and Lillard are all superior.

He puts up big points and sportscenter dunks so everyone considers him top 5. He has good teammates. He couldn't help a decent roster get to the 8th seed when Durant was injured. Oh but he had a bunch of ball hogging triple doubles where his team lost so some consider him top5.
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
We will see. The playoffs are a whole other beast, when teams can get away with more physical play (basically getting to play the way GS does...) shots tend to be harder as we all know.
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Are you from 2014? We saw it work in the playoffs last year.
 
Strenuus said:
I can't believe how the Thunder choked that away... all they had to do was hold on to the ball and have them foul.... but no. And THEN the foul on Iggy at the end of regulation.

That team is not mentally strong to win a championship.

I love it.
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If this season ends very poorly makes me think Durant could have some Aldridge type of interest to look elsewhere.

Still think its very likely he resigns for a 1+1 year deal. That door might be open a tiny crack though.
 
I don't understand why David Lee, Joe Johnson, Kevin Martin and Andre Miller are getting this interest to join playoff teams? Do these teams think its 2009? If any of those guys are on the floor for playoff minutes somebody is gonna get blown out and its not the opponent.
 
Minstrel said:
I don't think Curry is likely to end up GOAT, mostly because he can't match up with Jordan defensively. But he's not a worse defender than players like Magic Johnson and Larry Bird...like both of those guys, he's not a great one-on-one defender but he's a smart team defender who play with good technique, funnels his man to the right places in the defensive scheme and plays passing lanes well.

I think Magic's point is that he's such a unique offensive weapon, he may push himself into that argument just by how he warps games. Arguably, he warps games more than Jordan did, due to his unprecedented range. Jordan was unstoppable too, but Curry stretches defenses in ways no player has ever done. Jordan made the mid-range his domain, which has limited ability to completely distort defenses. Curry needs to be accounted for almost out to 40 feet. It's crazy, really.
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He's having the greatest season in the history of basketball. Its certainly possible he could be the greatest of all time if he strings together a few of these.

Jordan never had a year as dominant as Curry is having. Please don't bring up those 72win Bulls; they played in a weak expansion era with two new teams. There were more terrible teams; and far fewer quality opponents as in today's game.

Jordans dominance did remind me of these Warriors in that they sucked the hope out of opponenets. Shaq did that for a few years. Kobe never did.
 
Draco said:
He's having the greatest season in the history of basketball. Its certainly possible he could be the greatest of all time if he strings together a few of these.

Jordan never had a year as dominant as Curry is having. Please don't bring up those 72win Bulls; they played in a weak expansion era with two new teams. There were more terrible teams; and far fewer quality opponents as in today's game.

Jordans dominance did remind me of these Warriors in that they sucked the hope out of opponenets. Shaq did that for a few years. Kobe never did.
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Man.... this is just flat wrong. That league was tough. Even with the expansion teams, how were they any worse than the shit show that is Philly and LA this season?

The 72 win Bulls played in a league with:

Payton/Kemp Sonics - 64-18
Shaq/Penny Magic - 60-22
Robinson Spurs - 59-23
Malone/Stockton Jazz - 55-27
Reggie Pacers - 52-30

The worst records that year:

Vancouver - 15-67
Philly - 18-64
Toronto - 21-61
LAC - 29-53

The Sixers currently have 8 wins.
The Lakers have 11.
The Suns have 15.
The Nets have 17.
The TWolves have 19.

The 8th best team in the east had Tim Hardaway and Alonzo Mourning for pete's sake. I just can't imagine Curry would be nearly this good with handchecking and physical defense. Who in the league is even remotely as good defensively at point guard as Payton or Stockton? Jordan had to physically bulk himself up to deal with the abuse that Detroit and New York were throwing on him. Curry weighs 190 lbs soaking wet.

And to say that Jordan never had a year as dominant....... Go back and look at his numbers in the 80's. It's absurd. He averaged 32.5, 8 assists, and 8 rebounds with almost 3 steals per game on 54% shooting in 88-89. Those are all better numbers than Curry is currently averaging, and Curry is a point guard.
 
And two of Chicago's ten losses were to Damon's Raptors, as I recall. They clobbered the rest of the league.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Curry may be having the best SHOOTING season ever, but until he's the best defending guard in the league as well, it's stupid to compare him to Jordan.
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Yeah, his shooting numbers are pretty insane. In Jordan's best shooting year (also 88-89) he has a lower fg% than Jordan, but his eFG and TS% are much much higher.

Curry's current shooting percentages:
51.5% FG
46.8% 3PT
57% 2PT
64.3% eFG
68.5 TS%

Jordan's best shooting percentages:

53.8% FG
27.6% 3PT
55.3% 2PT
54.6% eFG
61.4 TS%
 
Natebishop3 said:
And to say that Jordan never had a year as dominant....... Go back and look at his numbers in the 80's. It's absurd. He averaged 32.5, 8 assists, and 8 rebounds with almost 3 steals per game on 54% shooting in 88-89. Those are all better numbers than Curry is currently averaging, and Curry is a point guard.
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Jordan also played 40.2 MPG. Curry is averaging 33.9 MPG.

Adjusting for minutes, Curry's line would be: 37 PPG/ 8 APG / 6.4 RPG / 2.5 SPG. And that's on 0.685 TS% vs. Jordan's .614 TS%.

Curry is not Jordan's equal as an on-ball defender, that much is true, mostly due to his size (Curry puts in effort on that end and has solid technique). Curry is a good team/off-ball defender. Beyond that, though, it's quite legitimate to argue that Curry is having a superior season to Jordan.

And even if we compare overall offense to defense, this is interesting though not conclusive (higher ORtg is better, lower DRtg is better):

1988/89 Jordan': 123 ORtg / 103 DRtg
2015/16 Curry: 126 Ortg / 102 DRtg

Interesting to look at Curry's DRtg by year:

2009/10: 111
2010/11: 112
2011/12: 108
2012/13: 107
2013/14: 104
2014/15: 101
2015/16: 102

The story DRtg tells is that Curry started off as a terrible defender, improved to mediocre and then, over the past 2-3 years, turned into a good to very good defender. I've watched a lot of Warriors games being in the Bay Area and that actually fits the eye test, in my opinion. I still wouldn't say he's as good as Jordan, but I would say that the gap between them is probably exaggerated.
 
Minstrel said:
Curry needs to be accounted for almost out to 40 feet. It's crazy, really.
Click to expand...

Fonzthecpt1 said:
Somebody turned the sliders all the way up man, no other explanation.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of this article:

Steph Curry is so good that he's broken 'NBA 2K'

Stephen Curry's play hasn't just redefined scoring in the NBA, it's seeping into everything. Some are blaming Curry for the decline of youth basketball as kids who "want to be like Steph" are jacking up shots from deep and passing up layups, while his ludicrous accuracy from deep could force an overhaul of the NBA 2K series all together.

Forbes broke down the problem with Mike Wang, gameplay director for NBA 2K. He explains that trying to balance the game around three-pointers is ruined when trying to accurately represent Curry's play.

"To be completely honest, we are still looking for ways to better translate his game into NBA 2K," says Wang. "He's a ‘rule breaker' when it comes to jump shooting ... he becomes a problem in the video game world where we've been trying to train our gamers [to know] that certain types of shots should be rewarded versus others."

This is the Steph conundrum: His play defies all logic, but still works. We're conditioned to believe that shots from insanely deep ranges or contested threes rarely get drained -- but he does it every single night. It's not a simple fix like jacking his three-point stat through the roof, because even the best shooters miss these kinds of shots. A new game needs to be created around him

"Taking 3s off the dribble are also definitely discouraged in NBA 2K," Wang adds. "Especially after over-dribbling beforehand."

Steph does this easily. The only solution is putting Steph on an island and developing elements of the game around him entirely. This is the kind of work that will need to take place in order to accurately represent him in the game, and it will need to be built around him exclusively.

"We're going to have to invest even more time in future iterations to really let Steph be Steph in future versions of NBA 2K."

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/2/28/11129304/stephen-curry-nba-2k-broken-warriors
 
Minstrel said:
Jordan also played 40.2 MPG. Curry is averaging 33.9 MPG.

Adjusting for minutes, Curry's line would be: 37 PPG/ 8 APG / 6.4 RPG / 2.5 SPG. And that's on 0.685 TS% vs. Jordan's .614 TS%.

Curry is not Jordan's equal as an on-ball defender, that much is true, mostly due to his size (Curry puts in effort on that end and has solid technique). Curry is a good team/off-ball defender. Beyond that, though, it's quite legitimate to argue that Curry is having a superior season to Jordan.

And even if we compare overall offense to defense, this is interesting though not conclusive (higher ORtg is better, lower DRtg is better):

1988/89 Jordan': 123 ORtg / 103 DRtg
2015/16 Curry: 126 Ortg / 102 DRtg

Interesting to look at Curry's DRtg by year:

2009/10: 111
2010/11: 112
2011/12: 108
2012/13: 107
2013/14: 104
2014/15: 101
2015/16: 102

The story DRtg tells is that Curry started off as a terrible defender, improved to mediocre and then, over the past 2-3 years, turned into a good to very good defender. I've watched a lot of Warriors games being in the Bay Area and that actually fits the eye test, in my opinion. I still wouldn't say he's as good as Jordan, but I would say that the gap between them is probably exaggerated.
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But how do you factor in rule changes? How do you factor in team defenses?

What team in the league today would be comparable to the Bad Boy Pistons or the Riley Knicks?
 
Natebishop3 said:
But how do you factor in rule changes? How do you factor in team defenses?

What team in the league today would be comparable to the Bad Boy Pistons or the Riley Knicks?
Click to expand...

This is something I saw a few years ago. Absorb the two team defensive stat lines and then click the spoilers for best effect. ;)

Team A - 104.7 points/100 possessions (3rd in the league), held opponents to a .447 FG%, and forced 1225 turnovers

Team B - 105.4 points/100 possessions (16th in the league), held opponents to a .435, on pace for about 1220 turnovers forced.

Team A = the World Champion Bad Boy Pistons circa 1989
Team B = the 2013/2014 Houston Rockets
Click to expand...

Basically, I disagree with the general idea that teams play worse defense today.

The main offense-freeing rule change has been the removal of the handcheck. But how much would handchecking affect Curry? Handchecking was most effective in limiting players with an explosive first step from blasting past you. Curry doesn't rely on his first step--when he drives, he often has his defender on his hip, but uses crafty moves and acrobatic finishes to get his lay-ups and floaters. The only way to stop that is to reach out and grab him, which has been illegal in any of those eras. There's also very little that handchecking is going to do for you when he takes step-back threes or fires off a three with the tiniest bit of daylight going around a screen. Again, you'd have to reach out and hold him to prevent that.

Handchecking was a big deal because previous eras focused on isolation and athletic one-on-one scorers. Being able to slow up a hyper-athletic slasher from driving past you had a lot of value. That doesn't apply to Curry, who is many things but not a hyper-athletic slasher. Handcheck his drives all you want...he's not trying to explode past you, he's trying to probe for weaknesses and exploit missteps.

The other main rule change since the '80s/'90s is the removal of illegal defense. This actually hurts Curry, because it's opened up many more defensive schemes that allow players to rove on both the strong and weak side. In a strict illegal defense world, doubling Curry to get the ball out of his hands would be much harder and defensive schemes wouldn't be as sophisticated as they are today.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I think Golden State is getting more credit than they deserve. I think that team is middle-of-the-pack without Curry. I think he's elevating that team. The Bulls still made the ECF without Jordan. I'm not sure the Warriors make it to the second round without Curry.
Click to expand...
No the Bulls did not. Bulls were eliminated in the second round without Jordan. ECF that year was Knicks/Pacers.
 
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