As long as Nate is coach, Batum will never develop

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OneSport3

OneSport3

The Knowledge Hoarder
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I think Nate doesn't fully trust in Nic and he never has. Nate has always had Nic on a short leash and pulls him quickly. He's always been the starter that plays the least minutes.

Nate leaves guys like good ole Steve Blake and Rudy Fernandez in the game more than she be when they were struggling. Nic on the other hand gets pulled immediately.
 
Wait, Rudy is trusted by Nate??

Bwwahahahahah
 
Is it McMillan's fault Batum has lapses when it comes to rebounding and defense? No.

Not only that, Batum is averaging 31min a game. Your theory that Nate pulls him out right away for any mistake doesn't seem to be true.
 
I don't see this being the same as Webster or Bayless. There will be games where Nic will be playing very good basketball, and Nate will pull him and not put him back in until late in the game. It doesn't make any sense.
 
julius said:
Wait, Rudy is trusted by Nate??

Bwwahahahahah
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LOL. I caught that too.

My problem with Nate and his handling of Nic isn't about PT. But rather it's about his role on this team. You can't just make a guy with his athleticism and sills sit in the corner all fuckin day. And you can't pull him when he misses a shot.

The front office supposedly treats him like a star (asset wise anyway), but Nate treats him like a rookie, and clearly shows that same double standard that he has with numerous other players during his tenure here.
 
yuyuza1 said:
LOL. I caught that too.

My problem with Nate and his handling of Nic isn't about PT. But rather it's about his role on this team. You can't just make a guy with his athleticism and sills sit in the corner all fuckin day. And you can't pull him when he misses a shot.

The front office supposedly treats him like a star (asset wise anyway), but Nate treats him like a rookie, and clearly shows that same double standard that he has with numerous other players during his tenure here.
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Sorry, just not true.
 
Well Nic can't create his shot off the dribble and Nate doesn't draw up many plays for him, so there's some truth to the assertion that Nate isn't good for Nic. However he needs to develop a better handle (same should be said of LaMarcus) to have better success in Nate's dribble heavy offense.
 
RoyToy said:
Sorry, just not true.
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You're right. He pulls him even when he makes shots. :)

But seriously, I was vehemently against his benching to start the second half today. When a player like that is struggling, you can't make him the scapegoat. You have to find a way to get him going by getting him easy looks instead. I mean, he was being guarded by a slow footed Anthony Morrow tonight, who was coming off an exhausting game the night before.

Shoulda been easy pickins if Nate let the team run.
 
yuyuza1 said:
You're right. He pulls him even when he makes shots. :)

But seriously, I was vehemently against his benching to start the second half today. When a player like that is struggling, you can't make him the scapegoat. You have to find a way to get him going by getting him easy looks instead. I mean, he was being guarded by a slow footed Anthony Morrow tonight, who was coming off an exhausting game the night before.

Shoulda been easy pickins if Nate let the team run.
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Nate went with the more aggressive Wesley Matthews who was playing very well. Nic just wasn't aggressive tonight and was pulled. I can still see Aldridge after a turnover telling Nic to shoot it instead of passing it. Batum struggles with that kind of stuff and can really take himself out of the offense at times. It's not all on Nate imo considering Batum continues to improve every season. He's just inconsistent. Pretty much the only players that are allowed to play through their struggles are all-stars/proven veterans. Young guys like Nic not so much.
 
I call bullshit. Batum needs to step up and deliver, and the reason he is sitting is because he has been stinking it up. Even if a player is having a bad night offensively, they should still collect effort statistics. Batum has basically been a big doughnut on the floor the last few games. He isn't showing up in the effort column. He is losing his defensive assignments at the 3point line. He isn't rebounding. He is passing up good shots for bad one's. For a guy who talks about having the potential of Scottie Pippen, he sure hasn't figured out the one thing that set Scottie apart from the rest. His motor.
 
as long as we are losing, we will not win.

profound, i know.
 
hasoos said:
I call bullshit. Batum needs to step up and deliver, and the reason he is sitting is because he has been stinking it up. Even if a player is having a bad night offensively, they should still collect effort statistics. Batum has basically been a big doughnut on the floor the last few games. He isn't showing up in the effort column. He is losing his defensive assignments at the 3point line. He isn't rebounding. He is passing up good shots for bad one's. For a guy who talks about having the potential of Scottie Pippen, he sure hasn't figured out the one thing that set Scottie apart from the rest. His motor.
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Batum might be the most overrated player in blazers history... can you think of anyone more overrated?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Batum might be the most overrated player in blazers history... can you think of anyone more overrated?
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Omar Cooke, Quintel Woods, Jerryd Bayless, Martell Webster, Sebastian Telfair just to name 5 from the last decade.
 
I'm a pretty big Nic fan, but he's got to own his part in this and that means playing lock-down D, going after rebounds, loose balls and knocking down the open looks he gets before he can given more responsibility. Is Nate helping? probably not, but he's a bit player in this.
 
julius said:
Omar Cooke, Quintel Woods, Jerryd Bayless, Martell Webster, Sebastian Telfair just to name 5 from the last decade.
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Jarrett Jack, LaMarcus Aldridge, etc, etc.

Nic has had two bad games, and now he's being heralded as the most overrated player in PDX history? Gimme a break. I know this is an excuse but Nic also supposedly had a touch of what Joel had this past week. Could be just a case of him being ill.

And the only two other games he failed to score in double figures this season, were the ones right after the news about Lucas came out, and Nic admitted that he was completely shaken up by it in his blog.

It's not like he's the only one struggling out there.

The point of this thread is, however, that this system does not fully take advantage of Nic's strengths, (As a matter of fact, outside of Roy, few other players have their talents maximized in this system), and I don't think even the most ardent Nate supporter can deny that.
 
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julius said:
Omar Cooke, Quintel Woods, Jerryd Bayless, Martell Webster, Sebastian Telfair just to name 5 from the last decade.
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Have any of those players been "untouchable" after three seasons of producing very little?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Have any of those players been "untouchable" after three seasons of producing very little?
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None of those players ever showed the skills that Nic did, and none of them even came close to his effectiveness or efficiency.
 
Omar Cook - one season as a Blazer.
Qyntel Woods - two seasons as a Blazer.
Jerryd Bayless - two seasons as a Blazer.
Martell Webster - five years as a Blazer.
Sebastian Telfair - two years as a Blazer.

With the exception of Martell, every one of those guys was gone within two years. We might have had high expectations for Webster, Bayless, and Telfair when they were rookies, but those expectations came crashing down rather quickly. Did anyone think that Webster was still bound for stardom after his second or third season?

Nic is coming into his third year. He started most of his rookie season. He's shown real flashes of brilliance, but he still hasn't really produced much. It's all potential, yet most fans would list him as being one of the untouchables on our team, or only tradeable for a star. Would we have listed Webster, Woods, Telfair, or even Bayless in that regard? Sure, most people were pissed about the Bayless trade because we got a shitty draft pick.

I still think Nic could be a very good player, but holy shit, some people act as though he's already a three-time All-Star.
 
yuyuza1 said:
None of those players ever showed the skills that Nic did, and none of them even came close to his effectiveness or efficiency.
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How is he effective or efficient? If anything the adjective to describe him is inconsistent. Being inconsistent is neither effective nor efficient.
 
Natebishop3 said:
How is he effective or efficient? If anything the adjective to describe him is inconsistent. Being inconsistent is neither effective nor efficient.
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He has been a close to 50-40-80 player for his career. And I certainly don't need to rehash his PER.

And for the right player (all star caliber, with a decent contract, and good fit on this roster), he certainly is not untouchable. No one treats him like " he's already a three-time All-Star." I think you're exaggerating this argument quite a bit.
 
yuyuza1 said:
None of those players ever showed the skills that Nic did, and none of them even came close to his effectiveness or efficiency.
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Effective? Not sure I agree there. He's inconsistent at a time when the team is desperately looking for other players to step up.

He's got the tools to be successful, much like Martell Webster. I just hope he hasn't peaked like Martell did early on in his career. I haven't seen any evidence that he's going to make that "next step" from his performance so far this season.
 
You guys are vastly overstating this "inconsistency."

nicu.png
 
yuyuza1 said:
He has been a close to 50-40-80 player for his career. And I certainly don't need to rehash his PER.

And for the right player (all star caliber, with a decent contract, and good fit on this roster), he certainly is not untouchable. No one treats him like " he's already a three-time All-Star." I think you're exaggerating this argument quite a bit.
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Notice how I said, "untouchable or only tradeable for a star"... If you're only willing to trade a guy for a star with a decent contract, you're treating him like an established star.
 
yuyuza1 said:
You guys are vastly overstating this "inconsistency."

nicu.png
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Over the last three seasons (yes, including last year when he was mostly injured) he has been inconsistent. 15 games is not a large enough sample size to prove otherwise.
 
yuyuza1 said:
He has been a close to 50-40-80 player for his career. And I certainly don't need to rehash his PER.
Click to expand...

Never let facts get in the way of a good discussion.

As you stated very clearly, nobody's talents are taken advantage of in Nate's system other than Roy's. Roy's health and Nate's anal-retentive style drag the entire team down.

If Roy would just go away, Wesley Matthews, Rudy and Batum could all get more minutes, and the result would be a style of basketball that even Nate couldn't slow down to the molasses-pace that he (because he's a control freak) and Roy (because it's easier on his knees) prefer to play.

It's a very ugly situation that won't get any better until Roy is permanently gone. Only Pritchard would have the balls to get rid of him. Cho will just sit there and collect his checks, as he's been doing since he got here.
 
Kingspoint said:
Never let facts get in the way of a good discussion.

As you stated very clearly, nobody's talents are taken advantage of in Nate's system other than Roy's. Roy's health and Nate's anal-retentive style drag the entire team down.

If Roy would just go away, Wesley Matthews, Rudy and Batum could all get more minutes, and the result would be a style of basketball that even Nate couldn't slow down to the molasses-pace that he (because he's a control freak) and Roy (because it's easier on his knees) prefer to play.

It's a very ugly situation that won't get any better until Roy is permanently gone. Only Pritchard would have the balls to get rid of him. Cho will just sit there and collect his checks, as he's been doing since he got here.
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Roy and Nate.
 
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