As they Stand (some thoughts about the Blazers)

[Nikolokolus]

He's 30. He's not THAT old. I think we get too caught up with age, and "the future." We need guys like Miller, Camby, and someone like Prince to help get us over the jump. We still have plenty of youth with Matthews, Williams, Babbitt, Batum, etc.

Who are we going to get at point guard?

Que up Minstrel: CP3 in 3 ... 2 ...

But I do agree about your general assessment of the roster and the need for a few more aged vets. Prince has really been slowed by injuries lately, but if they aren't chronic, I'd be ecstatic to add him to the team without having to give up a ton of assets (and assuming that the pie in the sky all-NBA point gaurds people seem to think we're going get are truly out of the question). I wouldn't even be all that sad to see Tayshaun get 20 minutes a game which would theoretically help keep him fresher for the post-season; he'd be a great player for Nic to learn from.

 

[Minstrel]

Que up Minstrel: CP3 in 3 ... 2 ...

Hardly need me to point out that Paul is going to be a Blazer soon. It's fairly obvious.

After all...

...all signs point to it.

Also, I don't think Conley is very likely to be an above average point guard. I think his peak will be about average. In other words, at the risk of comparing white and black athletes, I think he has a Steve Blake career ahead of him. Which, honestly, is not trivial...but also not worth pursuing. I'd rather see whether Bayless has any more development left despite his advanced age.

 

[Natebishop3]

Hardly need me to point out that Paul is going to be a Blazer soon. It's fairly obvious.

After all...

...all signs point to it.

Also, I don't think Conley is very likely to be an above average point guard. I think his peak will be about average. In other words, at the risk of comparing white and black athletes, I think he has a Steve Blake career ahead of him. Which, honestly, is not trivial...but also not worth pursuing. I'd rather see whether Bayless has any more development left despite his advanced age.

I'm tired of all the constant competition over minutes though. I realize that there will always be the have's and the have-nots in the NBA, but I would like to see a solid eight or nine man rotation on this team. With guys like Miller and Camby we have some good veterans who don't need to log more than 30 minutes per night, and can provide leadership and solid play, especially in the playoffs. I would like to add another vet to our roster, preferably a swingman. If that's Prince, so be it. I'm not 100% sure of his health, so if he isn't healthy don't add him. We need to find a balance of youth and experience on this team. I'm tired of young guys fighting over minutes. We don't need any more Rudy's.

I see a brewing battle for minutes between Bayless and Williams, and that's great in the short term, but we don't need another situation like we had with Bayless and Sergio. I can tell you right now that Bayless will NOT be happy if he isn't playing at least 25 minutes per game next season. He might be worth those minutes, but Williams might deserve them too. It's hard to say. It's too bad Williams wasn't able to play on the SL team because I would like to have seen what he's a capable of. The problem with Bayless is inconsistency. We have no idea what we're going to get from him from one game to the next. He might score 20 or he might score 5. I guess that's fine for a backup shooting guard.

I would like to see Williams, Matthews, and Babbitt get some considerable playing time during the preseason. We need to know how those guys are going to fit in our system, and I would like to get an idea of what we have in Williams and Babbitt. Are we going to need another small forward? Can Babbitt hack it? Is Williams a one or a two? Can he swing between those positions? Is he the kind of talent that you hate to have rotting on your bench? Right now we have no idea.

Currently I think our rotation is Miller, Roy, Batum, Aldridge, Camby, with Oden, Matthews, Bayless, and maybe Pendergraph or Cunningham off the bench. That isn't a terrible rotation if Bayless can be consistent, Oden is healthy, and Matthews is capable of playing both shooting guard and small forward. Unless a move is made, I think Williams and Babbitt are sitting on the bench this season, and guys like Armon Johnson (if he stays) will be practice dummies. I really don't know what is going to happen with Rudy. I think he will be moved. The team stored a malcontent before, with Darius Miles, and it wasn't pretty. I think they will dump him for relatively cheap, and I don't think his list of teams will mean a damn thing.

At this point the only real spots that need upgrading would be the backup guard spot where Bayless is, or the backup forward spot occupied by Pendergraph and Cunningham. Maybe we could do a trade of Rudy, Bayless, and Joel for Ben Gordon. I know his name has been talked about in the past and he isn't a point guard, but he is a pure shooter and the guy absolutely lit it up against the Pistons in the playoffs two years ago. He has come off the bench before, and I think he would be perfect as the backup 1/2, with Roy shifting to the point when Miller sits out, and Gordon playing the two when Miller comes back.

Our bench rotation would be Gordon, Matthews, Oden, and Pender/Cunningham. That's not bad. It has three point shooting, defense, and toughness. I think that's pretty solid.

 

[Nikolokolus]

...
At this point the only real spots that need upgrading would be the backup guard spot where Bayless is, or the backup forward spot occupied by Pendergraph and Cunningham. Maybe we could do a trade of Rudy, Bayless, and Joel for Ben Gordon. I know his name has been talked about in the past and he isn't a point guard, but he is a pure shooter and the guy absolutely lit it up against the Pistons in the playoffs two years ago. He has come off the bench before, and I think he would be perfect as the backup 1/2, with Roy shifting to the point when Miller sits out, and Gordon playing the two when Miller comes back.

Our bench rotation would be Gordon, Matthews, Oden, and Pender/Cunningham. That's not bad. It has three point shooting, defense, and toughness. I think that's pretty solid.

I've liked the idea of Ben Gordon on this team for awhile, certainly more so than I like the idea of trading for Mo Williams (Gordon can actually play defense). The Pistons look to be on the cusp of a full tear down and rebuild, so they'd probably welcome the infusion of some young talent that they could take a look at along with some expirings to off-set the ridiculous contracts they gave Rip and Charlie V.

Maybe this would be enough to get them interested? (overseas rights to Claver, Freeland, or Petko could certainly be added to strengthen the offer).
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=35h4bo2


We'd end up with the a roster that looks something like this:
Miller/Gordon/Johnson(?)
Roy/Matthews/Williams
Batum/Cunningham(?)/Matthews(?)/Babbitt
LMA/Camby/Cunningham/Penderstiff
Camby/Oden/Penderstiff

I don't think you'd see Gordon and Matthews on the court at the same time alone in the backcourt, so you'd probably always have at least one of Miller or Roy handling the ball and setting up the offense, but I think you'd have to feel pretty good about an 8 man rotation that would have Matthews, Gordon and Camby (or Oden?) as the three primary reserves, with Cunningham getting spot minutes and the rookies take their turn in the D-league and pick splinters out of their ass.

 

[B-Roy]

-snip-

I find it kind of odd that you would deem Bayless as a bad fit for this team, but want Ben Gordon, who's AST% has never been higher than 20%. If you think Bayless has tunnel vision, just wait until you see Gordon. I was under the impression you were looking for another playmaker to play to the strengths of the other players on our team. Gordon is most definitely not that, and if you relegate him into a corner 3PT shooter, you're really taking away from his abilities as a player as well.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I find it kind of odd that you would deem Bayless as a bad fit for this team, but want Ben Gordon, who's AST% has never been higher than 20%. If you think Bayless has tunnel vision, just wait until you see Gordon. I was under the impression you were looking for another playmaker to play to the strengths of the other players on our team. Gordon is most definitely not that, and if you relegate him into a corner 3PT shooter, you're really taking away from his abilities as a player as well.

If Bayless had a knock down 3 point shot, I'd be much, much higher on him as a player that could help this team. I frankly see Bayless and Gordon as very similar types of players, except that where Bayless' biggest NBA skill (driving and drawing contact) overlaps and somewhat cancels out Roy's best skill (Driving and finishing or drawing contact) I think Gordon would be a great floor spacer and would be a much better compliment to Roy in the backcourt. Gordon could fit, because he'd help create space for Oden, Roy and to a lesser extent LMA

I get the feeling that you think I'm way down on Bayless because he's not a pure point guard, I'm down on him as a Blazer because I don't think his particular skill-set is a great match for the players that surround him. Conversely, if Roy was a knockdown three point shooter who liked to catch and shoot and that was the best part of his game I think Bayless would have a much better chance of sticking.

At this point it's about adding the pieces that make the core better.

ps. I don't think Miller is the ideal point guard to play alongside Roy either, but because he sees the floor so well and can run the offense at a pretty high level, he's good enough for now.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Really? You would place Rudy and Mills that highly in the rotation nevermind the fact that Rudy doesn't want to be here plus the fact that they just paid Matthews the full MLE and Mills is a turnover machine.

But hey, who doesn't need 4 backup shooting guards, that's going to be fun

If anything I think you've just perfectly illustrated just how imbalanced this roster really is and how ripe it is for a major consolidation trade -- let's pray to god they're able to get something together sooner rather than later.

Well, as the thread states, it's how I see it now. That could change after preseason.

 

[B-Roy]

If Bayless had a knock down 3 point shot, I'd be much, much higher on him as a player that could help this team. I frankly see Bayless and Gordon as very similar types of players, except that where Bayless' biggest NBA skill (driving and drawing contact) overlaps and somewhat cancels out Roy's best skill (Driving and finishing or drawing contact) I think Gordon would be a great floor spacer and would be a much better fit alongside Roy in the backcourt.

I get the feeling that you think I'm way down on Bayless because he's not a pure point guard, I'm down on him as a Blazer because I don't think his particular skill-set is a great match for the players that surround him. Conversely, if Roy was a knockdown three point shooter who liked to catch and shoot and that was the best part of his game I think Bayless would have a much better chance of sticking.

At this point it's about fit.

So the sole reason he's a better fit is because he shoots threes? Then I really question how much better Gordon is than Steve Blake. Not as players, of course, but as fits. Which then conjures the question, why someone as expensive and shot demanding as Gordon? Don't get me wrong, I understand your point with Bayless, but Gordon really provides some of the same problems. When he and Roy are on the floor together, I think the offense is just as likely to stagnate than with Roy and Bayless.

And then you have age, Gordon is basically what he is, but Bayless has room to improve, especially on his shot. Sure, if he doesn't make significant improvements next year, then you might actively look to shop him, but until then, I think I'd rather see what development Bayless has left.

 

[Idog1976]

I'm tired of all the constant competition over minutes though. I realize that there will always be the have's and the have-nots in the NBA, but I would like to see a solid eight or nine man rotation on this team. With guys like Miller and Camby we have some good veterans who don't need to log more than 30 minutes per night, and can provide leadership and solid play, especially in the playoffs. I would like to add another vet to our roster, preferably a swingman. If that's Prince, so be it. I'm not 100% sure of his health, so if he isn't healthy don't add him. We need to find a balance of youth and experience on this team. I'm tired of young guys fighting over minutes. We don't need any more Rudy's.

Not sure I agree with your exact choices of personnel (I prefer Prince over Gordon by a mile however). However, you raise a great point about the minutes crunch partly due to young guys wanting to make their mark. While last year showed us how critical depth is, we also need to avoid a log jam at various positions. Great, great point about minutes and youth. Repped.

 

[Idog1976]

If Bayless had a knock down 3 point shot, I'd be much, much higher on him as a player that could help this team. I frankly see Bayless and Gordon as very similar types of players, except that where Bayless' biggest NBA skill (driving and drawing contact) overlaps and somewhat cancels out Roy's best skill (Driving and finishing or drawing contact) I think Gordon would be a great floor spacer and would be a much better compliment to Roy in the backcourt. Gordon could fit, because he'd help create space for Oden, Roy and to a lesser extent LMA

I get the feeling that you think I'm way down on Bayless because he's not a pure point guard, I'm down on him as a Blazer because I don't think his particular skill-set is a great match for the players that surround him. Conversely, if Roy was a knockdown three point shooter who liked to catch and shoot and that was the best part of his game I think Bayless would have a much better chance of sticking.

At this point it's about adding the pieces that make the core better.

ps. I don't think Miller is the ideal point guard to play alongside Roy either, but because he sees the floor so well and can run the offense at a pretty high level, he's good enough for now.

What about this trade followed by another consolidation to get your starting PG?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2u9p4uu

Portland Out:

Rudy
Bayless

Portland In:

Eric Gordon
DeAndre Jordan


You get a third string Center as insurance/practice dummy and a guy who can fill it up from three point range. Eric Gordon also has a decent handle and other tools. As an added bonus he and Oden are friends. NO I don't only come up with trades for Oden's friends, it was the Ben Gordon thing that made me think of it. Also I know Eric Gordon well because I really studied that particular draft.

 

[Natebishop3]

So the sole reason he's a better fit is because he shoots threes? Then I really question how much better Gordon is than Steve Blake. Not as players, of course, but as fits. Which then conjures the question, why someone as expensive and shot demanding as Gordon? Don't get me wrong, I understand your point with Bayless, but Gordon really provides some of the same problems. When he and Roy are on the floor together, I think the offense is just as likely to stagnate than with Roy and Bayless.

And then you have age, Gordon is basically what he is, but Bayless has room to improve, especially on his shot. Sure, if he doesn't make significant improvements next year, then you might actively look to shop him, but until then, I think I'd rather see what development Bayless has left.

I think you're underselling Gordon if you're comparing him to Steve Blake. Gordon can move without the ball, and is capable of catching and shooting. Blake really couldn't do that. He is also much more athletic than Steve. I think the point where Gordon would be successful where Bayless has failed is that they are both scoring combo guards, but Gordon would fit much better next to Roy, or Miller. He's a pure shooter, where Bayless is not. He is a dynamic scorer, who can put up points in bunches. He has the ability to take over games, but he can also play off the ball and be a spot up three point shooter. Bayless is an inconsistent shooter at best, who is at his best when he lowers his head and drives to the hoop. It's obvious that this team is most effective when we have guys who are knocking down shots (I.E. James Jones, Travis Outlaw, Martell Webster, Steve Blake, etc). We've gone out and picked up Matthews and Babbitt, but I think Gordon would be an ideal combo guard to bring off the bench.

 

[Further]

I think that barring a CP3 or similar trade, the Blazers should try this
NO trades Okafor, Collison
Blzers trade Przybilla, Rudy, Bayless, 3mil

NO has instant savings of 1.9mil, they receive 3mil cash, and have any savings that come from Przybilla being insured. Also, they get rid of a huge contract for Okafor. They get some you players JB & RF for the rebuild.

Blazers get their backup PG who may become a PGOTF depending on growth. They also get Okafor who is overpriced, but still a good center now that Przybilla is injured, and Oden and Camby are injury prone. The also trade away Bayless and Rudy, which would help define rolls and leave the Blazers with a more balanced roster and one roster spot left open.

Miller/Collison/Johnson
Roy/Mathewes/Williams
Batum/Cunninghap/Babbit
Aldridge/Camby/Pendergraph
Oden/Okafor (LMA, Camby and Pendy can play C when needed)

This makes sense.

 

[Idog1976]

I think that barring a CP3 or similar trade, the Blazers should try this
NO trades Okafor, Collison
Blzers trade Przybilla, Rudy, Bayless, 3mil

NO has instant savings of 1.9mil, they receive 3mil cash, and have any savings that come from Przybilla being insured. Also, they get rid of a huge contract for Okafor. They get some you players JB & RF for the rebuild.

Blazers get their backup PG who may become a PGOTF depending on growth. They also get Okafor who is overpriced, but still a good center now that Przybilla is injured, and Oden and Camby are injury prone. The also trade away Bayless and Rudy, which would help define rolls and leave the Blazers with a more balanced roster and one roster spot left open.

Miller/Collison/Johnson
Roy/Mathewes/Williams
Batum/Cunninghap/Babbit
Aldridge/Camby/Pendergraph
Oden/Okafor (LMA, Camby and Pendy can play C when needed)

This makes sense.

Well just use your omnipotence power and make it so. I like your trade by the way. Not sure NOH will, but maybe.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think that barring a CP3 or similar trade, the Blazers should try this
NO trades Okafor, Collison
Blzers trade Przybilla, Rudy, Bayless, 3mil

NO has instant savings of 1.9mil, they receive 3mil cash, and have any savings that come from Przybilla being insured. Also, they get rid of a huge contract for Okafor. They get some you players JB & RF for the rebuild.

Blazers get their backup PG who may become a PGOTF depending on growth. They also get Okafor who is overpriced, but still a good center now that Przybilla is injured, and Oden and Camby are injury prone. The also trade away Bayless and Rudy, which would help define rolls and leave the Blazers with a more balanced roster and one roster spot left open.

Miller/Collison/Johnson
Roy/Mathewes/Williams
Batum/Cunninghap/Babbit
Aldridge/Camby/Pendergraph
Oden/Okafor (LMA, Camby and Pendy can play C when needed)

This makes sense.

We really have no idea what NO is going to do. With a new GM they might not make any trades, as he would want to see what he has to work with for a season. That team is definitely an enigma right now.

 

[STOMP]

Right now, if no big move is made, the Blazers look like this

Miller/Bayless/Johnson
Roy/Mathewes/williams
Batum/Babbit
Aldridge/Cunningham/Pendergraph
Oden/Camby

Injured
Przybilla

Deep bench or cut
Rudy

more important to the chances of success then the overall roster is the rotation. Of course injuries happen and alter matters, but there aren't many examples of championship teams that I can site that lost more then one or two players from their rotation. The main cogs almost have to stay healthy for such a run.

Assuming Rudy is gone for nuthin' (just for the sake of discussion)...

Miller
Roy
Batum
LA
Greg

...with Jerryd, Wes, Dante, and Camby rounding out the top 9. Given health, thats a pretty tough squad with talent, size, and defense galore... 60+ wins. I see them with the Lakers and Rockets as the top team on paper in the West. Also, I'm thinking Wes and Roy get a vast majority of the backup SF minutes when Nic is seated

STOMP

 

[Natebishop3]

more important to the chances of success then the overall roster is the rotation. Of course injuries happen and alter matters, but there aren't many examples of championship teams that I can site that lost more then one or two players from their rotation. The main cogs almost have to stay healthy for such a run.

Assuming Rudy is gone for nuthin' (just for the sake of discussion)...

Miller
Roy
Batum
LA
Greg

...with Jerryd, Wes, Dante, and Camby rounding out the top 9. Given health, thats a pretty tough squad with talent, size, and defense galore... 60+ wins. I see them with the Lakers and Rockets as the top team on paper in the West. Also, I'm thinking Wes and Roy get a vast majority of the backup SF minutes when Nic is seated

STOMP

I just hope, hope, hope that we can stay healthy next season.

 

[Idog1976]

I just hope, hope, hope that we can stay healthy next season.

People need to stop hoping and start doing something about it. These goats and chickens aren't gonna sacrifice themselves!

 

[Natebishop3]

People need to stop hoping and start doing something about it. These goats and chickens aren't gonna sacrifice themselves!

Psh... Goats and chickens? I sacrificed a virgin in a volcano.