Trade Avdija to Blazers

[illmatic99]

I can't imagine why he'd be second guessing himself...

he was getting cooked by ty jerone and anyone that went at him.

and instead of forcing the issue he just passed to his teammates and took himself out of the plays.

 

[Phatguysrule]

he was getting cooked by ty jerone and anyone that went at him.

and instead of forcing the issue he just passed to his teammates and took himself out of the plays.

Yeah, sounds like he might have confidence issues.
It seems like with quality mentoring and a coach who showed faith in him he would get past that after a year or two...

I wonder what the problem is?

 

[STOMP]

Yeah, sounds like he might have confidence issues.
It seems like with quality mentoring and a coach who showed faith in him he would get past that after a year or two...

I wonder what the problem is?

So it would follow that you'd credit the development of Scoot & Camara to good coaching right?

Personally, I always put the lion's share of the blame/credit on the player. I don't buy the bitching about how Shaedon is being handled as he's gotten a ton of minutes this year despite being inconsistent and not very productive overall. Dude has started over 60% of the games he's played this season. His struggles are not about a lack of opportunity or consistent minutes any more then they're about a lack of ability. I certainly don't think his handle sucks because of a lack of confidence but I absolutely do think his poor handle hurts his confidence and keeps him from attacking defenders. He's still very young and hopefully he's putting in the work off the court and things start clicking more often for him. This Blazer team would be pretty darned good with consistent SG play.

STOMP

 

[Phatguysrule]

So it would follow that you'd credit the development of Scoot & Camara to good coaching right?

Personally, I always put the lion's share of the blame/credit on the player. I don't buy the bitching about how Shaedon is being handled as he's gotten a ton of minutes this year despite being inconsistent and not very productive overall. Dude has started over 60% of the games he's played this season. His struggles are not about a lack of opportunity or consistent minutes any more then they're about a lack of ability. I certainly don't think his handle sucks because of a lack of confidence but I absolutely do think his poor handle hurts his confidence and keeps him from attacking defenders. He's still very young and hopefully he's putting in the work off the court and things start clicking more often for him. This Blazer team would be pretty darned good with consistent SG play.

STOMP

Has Chauncey been getting shots up with Scoot? If so, then sure he gets some credit. I highly doubt that is the case.

Camara was a good defender the day he got here.

Sharpe's struggles are exactly the kinds of struggles you see from a young player who is being punished for something other people get away with and isn't comfortable.

Which is exactly what is happening.

I don't care how good (or bad) we would be with Sharpe as our starter. We should not be shooting for wins at the expense of the development of our young players.

I 100% believe our coaching staff has slowed the develoment of both Scoot and Sharpe in their quest to win more pointless games.

 

[STOMP]

Has Chauncey been getting shots up with Scoot? If so, then sure he gets some credit. I highly doubt that is the case.

Camara was a good defender the day he got here.

both players have progressed a ton in every aspect of their games since they got here. Like Shaedon, both have access to near unlimited amounts of coaching & trainers to work on their games. I doubt there is a head coach in the league in decades who shags balls for players as they shoot so thats a silly red herring to bring up. It's up to the players to put in the work with all the resources at their disposal. Even if they do, not everyone progresses at the same rate or has the same capacity to improve.

Sharpe's struggles are exactly the kinds of struggles you see from a young player who is being punished for something other people get away with and isn't comfortable.

says you (over & over & over) but the stats/game logs disagree. He's received big minutes and a ton of starts throughout the year despite consistently inconsistent results. Portland has been giving him the opportunity to play through mistakes/struggles, just look at the minutes and starts. Shaky guard play is the main thing thats been holding this squad back and they'd absolutely love him to provide it at SG today, but especially in seasons to come which is why they play him so much. If any of the three youngins we're discussing would have a beef about their role and minutes, it would be Scoot who I'd argue has improved the most from last year to this. He's averaging 3.5 less MPG then Shaedon and 2 minutes less then last year. Last year he started 32 games, this year 9. Yet somehow despite how unfair those mean old coaches are he's playing with confidence and excelling.

STOMP

 

[Phatguysrule]

I doubt there is a head coach in the league in decades who shags balls for players as they shoot so thats a silly red herring to bring up.

I'm glad you picked up on the irony.

says you (over & over & over) but the stats/game logs disagree. He's received big minutes and a ton of starts throughout the year despite consistently inconsistent results. Portland has been giving him the opportunity to play through mistakes/struggles, just look at the minutes and starts. Shaky guard play is the main thing thats been holding this squad back and they'd absolutely love him to provide it at SG today, but especially in seasons to come which is why they play him so much. If any of the three youngins we're discussing would have a beef about their role and minutes, it would be Scoot who I'd argue has improved the most from last year to this. He's averaging 3.5 less MPG then Shaedon and 2 minutes less then last year. Last year he started 32 games, this year 9. Yet somehow despite how unfair those mean old coaches are he's playing with confidence and excelling.

STOMP

That Scoot has been able to adjust to the mismanagement is a credit to Scoot. It doesn't mean the coaches are doing things right.

The first goal of coach (or any trainer or teacher) should be to do no harm.

I completely disagree with the way they've handled Sharpe. He's responding to it about exactly as I thought he would. And as I've been on record as saying.

Scoot also took a lot longer to round out to this form than people thought he would. That's why there was so much talk about him being a bust.

None of this is a credit to the coaches. In fact, the idea that anyone is holding Scoot's development out as a positive example of the quality of this staff is somewhat laughable.

I give Scoot huge props for overcoming this situation. I sincerely hope that Sharpe does as well. But if and when he does, it will not mean that Billips did anything right.

 

[STOMP]

I'm glad you picked up on the irony.

That Scoot has been able to adjust to the mismanagement is a credit to Scoot. It doesn't mean the coaches are doing things right.

The first goal of coach (or any trainer or teacher) should be to do no harm.

I completely disagree with the way they've handled Sharpe. He's responding to it about exactly as I thought he would. And as I've been on record as saying.

Scoot also took a lot longer to round out to this form than people thought he would. That's why there was so much talk about him being a bust.

None of this is a credit to the coaches. In fact, the idea that anyone is holding Scoot's development out as a positive example of the quality of this staff is somewhat laughable.

I give Scoot huge props for overcoming this situation. I sincerely hope that Sharpe does as well. But if and when he does, it will not mean that Billips did anything right.

So when a young player struggles, it's all the coach's fault but when a young player develops it's laughable to suggest they deserve some credit? Oh will someone please coddle these poor poor multi-million dollar menials with ample opportunities & near unlimited resources at their disposal? Good grief what a crock.

I'm very much on record going into this season saying I expect Scoot and Sharpe to largely struggle but hopefully they show flashes of what they're to become as they get schooled up by the league. I'm also on record that I think these two young men are the biggest talents on the team and think they could be great, it's just likely to take some time if it happens at all. That some posters thought their developments into the stratosphere should happen instantaneously was silly wishful thinking which there is always a strong strain of here. That those same posters have been crying about their unrealistic expectations not being met & throwing around the bust label is not something other posters need to respect. So sorry but they're just doubling down on the stupid

Shaedon and Scoot are still both very young and inexperienced by NBA standards. Both still have holes in their games which I hope/assume they're working on with coaches/trainers in the vast amount of their daily lives that I don't pretend I'm privy to. I hope/assume that management is watching whats happening in the off camera time judging coaches and players on the work they are or aren't putting in as thats their job. If they judge the coaching to be poor or ineffective then they're in position to make changes. If you and others want to play pretend that you do know whats what behind the scenes and then get upset over your speculations, have at it. Just don't expect others to respect it

STOMP

 

[Phatguysrule]

So when a young player struggles, it's all the coach's fault but when a young player develops it's laughable to suggest they deserve some credit?
Oh will someone please coddle these poor poor multi-million dollar menials with ample opportunities & near unlimited resources at their disposal? Good grief what a crock.

Lol. Nice straw man.

I'm very much on record going into this season saying I expect Scoot and Sharpe to largely struggle but hopefully they show flashes of what they're to become as they get schooled up by the league. I'm also on record that I think these two young men are the biggest talents on the team and think they could be great, it's just likely to take some time if it happens at all. That some posters thought their developments into the stratosphere should happen instantaneously was silly wishful thinking which there is always a strong strain of here. That those same posters have been crying about their unrealistic expectations not being met & throwing around the bust label is not something other posters need to respect. So sorry but they're just doubling down on the stupid

I don't disagree with any of this. It wasn't just in this forum, though. For example, try googling "Scoot bust"...

Shaedon and Scoot are still both very young and inexperienced by NBA standards. Both still have holes in their games which I hope/assume they're working on with coaches/trainers in the vast amount of their daily lives that I don't pretend I'm privy to. I hope/assume that management is watching whats happening in the off camera time judging coaches and players on the work they are or aren't putting in as thats their job. If they judge the coaching to be poor or ineffective then they're in position to make changes. If you and others want to play pretend that you do know whats what behind the scenes and then get upset over your speculations, have at it. Just don't expect others to respect it

STOMP

I'm not pretending anything actually. I haven't made any claims about what's going on behind the scenes or me knowing anything about it.

Nor have requested your respect of my opinion.

But great job on sticking to your straw man strategy to explain why people being disappointed with management and coaching decisions makes you sad or angry or whatever. I hope you feel better now.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Right now it's Deni's team. It could Shaedon's if he steps up and stops second guessing himself.

Deni without a doubt is the most vocal leader on the team. They needed someone like that badly. As we saw when he yelled at Scoot yesterday. Deni is very emotional.

At the moment he is also the best player on the team. Even if Scoot or Shae pass him in talent he will still be the vocal leader. But the way he throws his body around, I think injuries would be the only thing holding him back. He does it all

 

[Samuel]

At the moment he is also the best player on the team.

I didnt understand why that was so controversial when that chauncey quote got taken out of context. ant and grant didn't come through when presented the opportunity last year. shaedon and scoot not there yet.

 

[STOMP]

Lol. Nice straw man.

Not sure you know what a strawman is.

I don't disagree with any of this. It wasn't just in this forum, though. For example, try googling "Scoot bust"...

Of course I'm already aware the web is full of impatient bed wetters wanting to be the first to get off hot takes. What I don't understand is why you're suggesting I spend any of my time researching and exposing myself to more of that stuff? Does the existence of more of those types outside this forum add some legitimacy to that nonsense for you?

I'm not pretending anything actually. I haven't made any claims about what's going on behind the scenes or me knowing anything about it.

Sure you are. You're pretending you know exactly why Shaedon's production is so erratic and claiming it's because he's being mismanaged/not getting enough minutes. In reality you, I & everyone else here know very little about whats going on with the big picture of individual players and the myriad of things that could be affecting their performance... family stuff, a big know it all ego, what their work habits are, whether they're focused or not, underlying health issues, diet, what makes them tick. Maybe Shaedon is addicted to video games and it messes with his sleep? You are pointing a finger at the coaches saying they're to blame for his up and down performances presumably because him not leading the team in MPG is something you can observe. But the stats stand in your way here as he is 4th on the team in minutes played this season trailing only Ant, Toumani & Deni and has started in over 60% of the games he's played in. Averaging over 30 MPG is more then enough PT to develop a 21 year old which makes your complaints read like you're just complaining to complain and just generally upset.

Given that they were never going to compete for a championship this year, I've viewed this season as one that should be focused on developing the youngins... which is what they're doing. I expected this season to be pretty bad & honestly they've been further along then I guessed. Deni has been an incredible addition giving them an aggressive creator to play off of on offense and a versatile defender. What I know about Shaedon's erratic performances is that they're ongoing and that the coaches are giving him plenty of opportunity to get past it. His handle has been and continues to be glaringly weak and seems to limit his aggressiveness especially after a turnover or two & has him settling for contested long jumpers which aren't his forte. His defensive effort definitely leaves something to be desired. I'm sure that he and the staff are aware of both of these issues, so here's hoping he's applying himself behind the scenes to improve.

I hope you feel better now.

I'm doing just fine dude, are you?

STOMP

 

[SheedSoNasty]

I don’t see how anyone could hate on Deni. He’s such a competitor and leader. Any team would gladly have him on their team.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Not sure you know what a strawman is.

Lol

Of course I'm already aware the web is full of impatient bed wetters wanting to be the first to get off hot takes. What I don't understand is why you're suggesting I spend any of my time researching and exposing myself to more of that stuff? Does the existence of more of those types outside this forum add some legitimacy to that nonsense for you?


Sure you are. You're pretending you know exactly why Shaedon's production is so erratic and claiming it's because he's being mismanaged/not getting enough minutes. In reality you, I & everyone else here know very little about whats going on with the big picture of individual players and the myriad of things that could be affecting their performance... family stuff, a big know it all ego, what their work habits are, whether they're focused or not, underlying health issues, diet, what makes them tick. Maybe Shaedon is addicted to video games and it messes with his sleep? You are pointing a finger at the coaches saying they're to blame for his up and down performances presumably because him not leading the team in MPG is something you can observe. But the stats stand in your way here as he is 4th on the team in minutes played this season trailing only Ant, Toumani & Deni and has started in over 60% of the games he's played in. Averaging over 30 MPG is more then enough PT to develop a 21 year old which makes your complaints read like you're just complaining to complain and just generally upset.

Given that they were never going to compete for a championship this year, I've viewed this season as one that should be focused on developing the youngins... which is what they're doing. I expected this season to be pretty bad & honestly they've been further along then I guessed. Deni has been an incredible addition giving them an aggressive creator to play off of on offense and a versatile defender. What I know about Shaedon's erratic performances is that they're ongoing and that the coaches are giving him plenty of opportunity to get past it. His handle has been and continues to be glaringly weak and seems to limit his aggressiveness especially after a turnover or two & has him settling for contested long jumpers which aren't his forte. His defensive effort definitely leaves something to be desired. I'm sure that he and the staff are aware of both of these issues, so here's hoping he's applying himself behind the scenes to improve.


I'm doing just fine dude, are you?

STOMP

Yeah, I've already addressed all of this. It's not worth going over again.

Sharpe is having the exact problems I thought he'd have if handled the way he's been handled (as I've said in this forum). I'm already vindicated. Same with Scoot.

Luckily we've destroyed any chance of getting great lotto odds by mismanaging both Scoot and Sharpe.

So at least you can hang your hat on that!

Yeah, I'm fine. Looking forward to another decade and a half of mediocrity.

 

[HailBlazers]

Sharpe is having the exact problems I thought he'd have if handled the way he's been handled (as I've said in this forum). I'm already vindicated. Same with Scoot.

Luckily we've destroyed any chance of getting great lotto odds by mismanaging both Scoot and Sharpe.

So at least you can hang your hat on that!

Yeah, I'm fine. Looking forward to another decade and a half of mediocrity.

How exactly have we mismanaged those two?

 

[e_blazer]

Lol


Yeah, I've already addressed all of this. It's not worth going over again.

Sharpe is having the exact problems I thought he'd have if handled the way he's been handled (as I've said in this forum). I'm already vindicated. Same with Scoot.

Luckily we've destroyed any chance of getting great lotto odds by mismanaging both Scoot and Sharpe.

So at least you can hang your hat on that!

Yeah, I'm fine. Looking forward to another decade and a half of mediocrity.

I just want to make a few points on this never ending debate:

1. Scoot and Shaedon are doing just fine. They’re up and down a bit, but trending towards being very good players. I don’t buy that the minor difference in MPG is holding them back at all. I would say that regularly playing competitive games against good teams more than offsets the value of being a starter on an awful team. The great players hone their games in the offseason through hard work. I expect Scoot and Sharpe will do the same.

2. There’s no such thing as great lotto odds. The best chance a bottom feeder team gets at nabbing Flagg is 14%. Yeah, there are other good prospects after Flagg, but no certain superstars.

3. I think that what Cronin has done through trades is undervalued by some here. Toumani and Deni were both acquired through trades, not the draft. Both are showing All-Star potential, or at least All NBA Defensive Team in Camara’s case. These guys fit the timeline and they both are able to contribute now rather than in 3-4 years like most draft picks. I trust the Blazers management to use their assets wisely to add more guys like that.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I just want to make a few points on this never ending debate:

1. Scoot and Shaedon are doing just fine. They’re up and down a bit, but trending towards being very good players. I don’t buy that the minor difference in MPG is holding them back at all. I would say that regularly playing competitive games against good teams more than offsets the value of being a starter on an awful team. The great players hone their games in the offseason through hard work. I expect Scoot and Sharpe will do the same.

I've said nothing about minutes per game. I'm not critical of either Scoot or Sharpe. They are doing well, IMO.

2. There’s no such thing as great lotto odds. The best chance a bottom feeder team gets at nabbing Flagg is 14%. Yeah, there are other good prospects after Flagg, but no certain superstars.

I've gone there on the math too many times already. If people don't have it by now, it's because they don't want to.

3. I think that what Cronin has done through trades is undervalued by some here. Toumani and Deni were both acquired through trades, not the draft. Both are showing All-Star potential, or at least All NBA Defensive Team in Camara’s case. These guys fit the timeline and they both are able to contribute now rather than in 3-4 years like most draft picks. I trust the Blazers management to use their assets wisely to add more guys like that.

If Avdija turns into a superstar then that trade was good. Otherwise it helped doom us to mediocrity (unless lightning strikes and we acquire a superstar elsewhere).

Either way, it was not a good risk to take at the time. But I don't get hung up on it because I love Deni.

I love both of these players.

I especially love the Nurk for DA/Camara trade.

I'm not being overly critical of Cronin because I think his hands are tied (to a degree).

 

[Pinwheel1]

One of the most annoying comments on almost all message boards is that one of the players they watch every game/minute of .......is "inconsistent".
News flash, almost every player on every team is inconsistent night in and night out. We don't notice it because we don't watch every game of every team.

Sharpe had another great game last night. (I will take 20-11-5 any time) Yes, he is going to be inconsistent this year and next year, and the year after that...no matter who is coaching him.
As will any of our players who shoot more than a few times a game.

 

[crandc]

Cameras often show Blazers fans at road games. Something I have not seen before, fans wearing Blazers gear and yarmulkes. Call it Deni effect.

 

[Phatguysrule]

How exactly have we mismanaged those two?

By playing them behind players who are as bad or worse than them at the things the coaches are claiming they need to improve on.

It's not the minutes per game. It's the position on the team and the responsibilities when on the floor that are being mismanaged.

I hope it all works out. I have a ton of faith in both Sharpe and Scoot. But I am not at all surprised when they have confidence issues (when they "appear to show no effort"). Or when their play is inconsistent.

 

[Samuel]

(when they "appear to show no effort"). Or when their play is inconsistent.

this is a fair critique. sometimes (not all the time) young player 'laziness' is actually a manifestation of a player not having a clear coaching articulation of where they should be or what they should be doing.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

The Deni trade — excellent.
The Camara part of the Nurk trade — excellent.
Two-way, starting forwards.

Toumani 24 (25 in May)
Deni 24
Sharpe 21 (22 in May)
Scoot 21
Clingan 21

Get a quality pick this year — lottery
Trade the usual suspect veterans for trade capital and youth that fits

 

[THE HCP]

The Deni trade — excellent.
The Camara part of the Nurk trade — excellent.
Two-way, starting forwards.

Toumani 24 (25 in May)
Deni 24
Sharpe 21 (22 in May)
Scoot 21
Clingan 21

Get a quality pick this year — lottery
Trade the usual suspect veterans for trade capital and youth that fits

Remind me how/what happened in the Camara trade. What did you mean by the Nurk part?

 

[sheed30]

Not sure you know what a strawman is.


Of course I'm already aware the web is full of impatient bed wetters wanting to be the first to get off hot takes. What I don't understand is why you're suggesting I spend any of my time researching and exposing myself to more of that stuff? Does the existence of more of those types outside this forum add some legitimacy to that nonsense for you?


Sure you are. You're pretending you know exactly why Shaedon's production is so erratic and claiming it's because he's being mismanaged/not getting enough minutes. In reality you, I & everyone else here know very little about whats going on with the big picture of individual players and the myriad of things that could be affecting their performance... family stuff, a big know it all ego, what their work habits are, whether they're focused or not, underlying health issues, diet, what makes them tick. Maybe Shaedon is addicted to video games and it messes with his sleep? You are pointing a finger at the coaches saying they're to blame for his up and down performances presumably because him not leading the team in MPG is something you can observe. But the stats stand in your way here as he is 4th on the team in minutes played this season trailing only Ant, Toumani & Deni and has started in over 60% of the games he's played in. Averaging over 30 MPG is more then enough PT to develop a 21 year old which makes your complaints read like you're just complaining to complain and just generally upset.

Given that they were never going to compete for a championship this year, I've viewed this season as one that should be focused on developing the youngins... which is what they're doing. I expected this season to be pretty bad & honestly they've been further along then I guessed. Deni has been an incredible addition giving them an aggressive creator to play off of on offense and a versatile defender. What I know about Shaedon's erratic performances is that they're ongoing and that the coaches are giving him plenty of opportunity to get past it. His handle has been and continues to be glaringly weak and seems to limit his aggressiveness especially after a turnover or two & has him settling for contested long jumpers which aren't his forte. His defensive effort definitely leaves something to be desired. I'm sure that he and the staff are aware of both of these issues, so here's hoping he's applying himself behind the scenes to improve.


I'm doing just fine dude, are you?

STOMP

Dude thinks he is so much smarter than anyone, runs in circles when you dispute him and make solid points, and just has his head so far up his ass he can’t see anything else but shit.

Another person that dude just rubs the wrong way, not sure why people even engage with him anymore on here

 

[Phatguysrule]

Dude thinks he is so much smarter than anyone, runs in circles when you dispute him and make solid points, and just has his head so far up his ass he can’t see anything else but shit.

Another person that dude just rubs the wrong way, not sure why people even engage with him anymore on here

It's funny how people get pissed when they are proven wrong... This has gone exactly how I've said it would and that just drives you insane.

Hey, maybe Ant will be an All Star next year. Don't lose hope!

 

[Phatguysrule]

One of the most annoying comments on almost all message boards is that one of the players they watch every game/minute of .......is "inconsistent".
News flash, almost every player on every team is inconsistent night in and night out. We don't notice it because we don't watch every game of every team.

Sharpe had another great game last night. (I will take 20-11-5 any time) Yes, he is going to be inconsistent this year and next year, and the year after that...no matter who is coaching him.
As will any of our players who shoot more than a few times a game.

Absolutely. The guys who bring it night in and night out are All NBA guys. Everyone can't be that.

 

[KingSpeed]

https://www.facebook.com/share/15iqbwudth/?mibextid=wwXIfr

 

[crandc]

He does wear a swimsuit well. Right, @Spud147?

 

[crandc]

Saw in news feed OKC traded for Avdija. Almost had a heart attack. Then saw it was some dude's wish, not report.

 

[riverman]

One thing I see in Deni that I also see in Scoot is that these guys never get out of shape...They're both gym rats like Dame ands that's how stars are born.

 

[HailBlazers]

One thing I see in Deni that I also see in Scoot is that these guys never get out of shape...They're both gym rats like Dame ands that's how stars are born.

Puttin work.