Exclusive Ayton is agreeing to buyout (2 Viewers)

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Ayton is the definition of all talk no walk. He’s like the new guy at work who busts his ass the first month and by month 2 he’s calling in sick every other Monday and showing up 15 min late every day.

very true

 

[Natebishop3]

My regret is that Ayton ever wore a Blazer uniform. I think the Blazer front office shares that regret

Wouldn't have Toumani if Ayton never wore the uniform. So...... I still disagree about the regret.

 

[cheesehoff]

Here is a reminder of Ayton's first day with Portland

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/morFGBfJt1I

Compare that to Deni and Jrue's first visits. Not to say their intro to the facility really means anything...but that should have told us something.

 

[wizenheimer]

Wouldn't have Toumani if Ayton never wore the uniform. So...... I still disagree about the regret.

I know you do. But in the NBA, a clear and obvious definition of regret is dead salary. Ayton is 25M of regret. Portland is paying Ayton that money to play for the Lakers

 

[Natebishop3]

I know you do. But in the NBA, a clear and obvious definition of regret is dead salary. Ayton is 25M of regret. Portland is paying Ayton that money to play for the Lakers

Well, it's two separate things that aren't necessarily the same thing.

You're associating regret with the decision to cut him. We don't know that. Here is what we know or what we have at least seen reported:

1. The Blazers center rotation was extremely jammed. Ayton/Clingan/Yang/RWIII/Reath. Something had to be done because they couldn't possibly find minutes for all those players and they can't play multiple positions like Grant.
2. We know there were reports that they had offers for Ayton but Cronin didn't want to take back longer deals. So we know that Cronin still values that expiring money. The 25 million that they kept on their books is still expiring money.
3. Ayton was reported to have asked to be bought out - so reportedly this was his idea. Not the Blazers.

Here is what we can guess:

1. The team probably wasn't going to re-sign him after the season.
2. He didn't have much value in trade and we would have had to take back a lot of matching salary.
3. The team most likely wanted to start Clingan this season anyway and they wanted to clear the runway.

Here is what they have done by cutting him:

1. They have opened up the starting position for Clingan and they have opened up minutes for Yang.
2. They still have $25 million in expiring money.
3. They now have a full MLE that they can trade for a player, which means they can take back SOME money that isn't expiring but not $35 million worth.

Personally I thought the move was hasty and I'm not convinced they will actually use that money. I would have kept him until the trade deadline, but I guess if he was asking to leave, they removed a potential chemistry issue but retained some flexibility for trades down the road.

 

[riverman]

I know you do. But in the NBA, a clear and obvious definition of regret is dead salary. Ayton is 25M of regret. Portland is paying Ayton that money to play for the Lakers

More like Portland is paying 25 mil to play two rookie centers all Ayton's minutes and more. Value systems....addition by substraction....Deni's salary also offsets any overpaid Ayton salary on the books.they also saved 10 mil on Ayton's deal so in my book, they are way ahead of the game. It's not dead money...it's reallocated money spent on time for two players...not salary for one. We could easily be paying 35 million for Ayton this season and still have him on the bench

 

[wizenheimer]

Well, it's two separate things that aren't necessarily the same thing.

You're associating regret with the decision to cut him. We don't know that. Here is what we know or what we have at least seen reported:

1. The Blazers center rotation was extremely jammed. Ayton/Clingan/Yang/RWIII/Reath. Something had to be done because they couldn't possibly find minutes for all those players and they can't play multiple positions like Grant.
2. We know there were reports that they had offers for Ayton but Cronin didn't want to take back longer deals. So we know that Cronin still values that expiring money. The 25 million that they kept on their books is still expiring money.
3. Ayton was reported to have asked to be bought out - so reportedly this was his idea. Not the Blazers.

Here is what we can guess:

1. The team probably wasn't going to re-sign him after the season.
2. He didn't have much value in trade and we would have had to take back a lot of matching salary.
3. The team most likely wanted to start Clingan this season anyway and they wanted to clear the runway.

Here is what they have done by cutting him:

1. They have opened up the starting position for Clingan and they have opened up minutes for Yang.
2. They still have $25 million in expiring money.
3. They now have a full MLE that they can trade for a player, which means they can take back SOME money that isn't expiring but not $35 million worth.

Personally I thought the move was hasty and I'm not convinced they will actually use that money. I would have kept him until the trade deadline, but I guess if he was asking to leave, they removed a potential chemistry issue but retained some flexibility for trades down the road.

oh for chrissakes....I'm bailing out of this one. You're expending way too much effort into trying to convince me my definition of 'regret' is wrong and yours is right. You're never going to convince me of this...you know that, right?

 

[Strenuus]

Said no one ever.

 

[Natebishop3]

oh for chrissakes....I'm bailing out of this one. You're expending way too much effort into trying to convince me my definition of 'regret' is wrong and yours is right. You're never going to convince me of this...you know that, right?

Can't convince you of something that we will never know for sure. Unless you run into Joe. I don't know why this bothers you so much though.

 

[BlazerWookee]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45697770/ayton-thrilled-once-generation-doncic

I wouldn’t be surprised if Doncic and Ayton become the deadliest combo in the NBA.

<snicker>

 

[wizenheimer]

Can't convince you of something that we will never know for sure. Unless you run into Joe. I don't know why this bothers you so much though.

wut....you're the one that seems bugged. You just wrote an essay.

it's simple for me: in the NBA, significant dead salary = regret

 

[Natebishop3]

wut....you're the one that seems bugged. You just wrote an essay.

it's simple for me: in the NBA, significant dead salary = regret

I'm just debating a topic. Doesn't bug me at all. You know how sometimes you don't agree and you want to discuss? You do it all the time.....

 

[blazerkor]

Great job with the...

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm just debating a topic. Doesn't bug me at all. You know how sometimes you don't agree and you want to discuss? You do it all the time.....

aren't we both just "debating a topic"....don't know how you concluded I was bugged and you weren't

all I said that got you going was "My regret is that Ayton ever wore a Blazer uniform. I think the Blazer front office shares that regret". And I said it before the thread was merged and the thread title said "Blazers will regret letting Ayton go". I just did a little innocuous riff on the thread title

 

[andalusian]

oh for chrissakes....I'm bailing out of this one. You're expending way too much effort into trying to convince me my definition of 'regret' is wrong and yours is right. You're never going to convince me of this...you know that, right?

Regret is being sad/upset about a decision made. Unless you know for sure that there were better options for the Dame trade - how can you argue that the Blazers regret this?

If the question is - do the Dame trade at all or not, I am pretty sure the Blazers do not regret having an injured super-max Dame on the roster and not having Tou, Deni on the roster.

If the question is do the alleged Dame to Miami trade or the one involving Ayton, I again, am pretty sure they do not regret it.

Any other transaction we can come out of our rear-end with is pure speculation.

I think there might be disappointment that the chance they took on Ayton did not materialize, but regret? I doubt it very much

 

[Natebishop3]

aren't we both just "debating a topic"....don't know how you concluded I was bugged and you weren't

Because of this.

oh for chrissakes....I'm bailing out of this one. You're expending way too much effort into trying to convince me my definition of 'regret' is wrong and yours is right. You're never going to convince me of this...you know that, right?

 

[blazerkor]

Regret is being sad/upset about a decision made. Unless you know for sure that there were better options for the Dame trade - how can you argue that the Blazers regret this?

If the question is - do the Dame trade at all or not, I am pretty sure the Blazers do not regret having an injured super-max Dame on the roster and not having Tou, Deni on the roster.

If the question is do the alleged Dame to Miami trade or the one involving Ayton, I again, am pretty sure they do not regret it.

Any other transaction we can come out of our rear-end with is pure speculation.

I think there might be disappointment that the chance they took on Ayton did not materialize, but regret? I doubt it very much

Yeah, I think seeing if Ayton, with all of his skills and talent just needed a change of scenery along with getting Tou made the Phoenix part of the Dame trade (Allen, Nurk and Nas for Ayton and Tou) very worthwhile and I'd never regret taking the chance on both of them when giving up so little.

I'd trade Allen, Nurk and Nas for Tou straight up and we got the bonus of seeing if we could get something different out of Deandre. We gave it two seasons, it wasn't a match and our cap is clean this season so it virtually cost us nothing to get his attitude away from our young guys.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

My regret is that Ayton ever wore a Blazer uniform. I think the Blazer front office shares that regret

I'm fine with acquiring Ayton. Thought it was worth checking if being on a new team would help. It didn't.

The regret the Blazers/Cronin should have is giving Nurk, Ant, and Grant the stupid contracts they gave them. All of those contracts prevented the Blazers from acquiring talent. Once Nurk was on his deal having him or Ayton the last two years isn't very relevant to recent Blazer regrets.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Wouldn't have Toumani if Ayton never wore the uniform. So...... I still disagree about the regret.

I don't understand why people try to correlate these.

Camara was a throw in to the Ayton deal, he wasn't a key piece of the trade so shouldn't be judged as a relevant one to Ayton in hindsight.

Blazers could have still sent Allen to PHX for some other pieces to get Camara. Or done a completely separate deal to get Camara. Or just drafted him.

 

[riverman]

I don't understand why people try to correlate these.

Camara was a throw in to the Ayton deal, he wasn't a key piece of the trade so shouldn't be judged as a relevant one to Ayton in hindsight.

Blazers could have still sent Allen to PHX for some other pieces to get Camara. Or done a completely separate deal to get Camara. Or just drafted him.

My understanding is that Phoenix didn't want to include Tou and the Blazers insisted he was included...they wanted Tou before Phoenix got him. It was a calculated trade, not a throw in from my understanding. Smart trade by the front office...some of the guys we dumped in that trade aren't in the league today.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I know you do. But in the NBA, a clear and obvious definition of regret is dead salary. Ayton is 25M of regret. Portland is paying Ayton that money to play for the Lakers

So undo that and the Blazers have Nurk/Little. I really don't see the difference.

The mistake was overpaying Nurk - not an ultimately irrelevant trade that happened afterwards.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

oh for chrissakes....I'm bailing out of this one. You're expending way too much effort into trying to convince me my definition of 'regret' is wrong and yours is right. You're never going to convince me of this...you know that, right?

Do you think the purpose of messages on this site is to convince the person your arguing with?

I've never looked at it that way. I always consider what side would a reasonable 3rd party agree with. Individuals are defensive and illogical - especially with their own posts and responses.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

it's simple for me: in the NBA, significant dead salary = regret

Seems like you don't understand concepts like sunk cost and imperfect planning.

I am glad the Blazers moved on from Ayton at this time. Maybe you view going in a new direction as regret. Others might view that as making updated decisions with new information.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

aren't we both just "debating a topic"....don't know how you concluded I was bugged and you weren't

all I said that got you going was "My regret is that Ayton ever wore a Blazer uniform. I think the Blazer front office shares that regret". And I said it before the thread was merged and the thread title said "Blazers will regret letting Ayton go". I just did a little innocuous riff on the thread title

I see no evidence the Blazers from office regrets anything.

Maybe that's how you view any change in strategy.

Many people don't care to waist their time having regrets. They try to make the best decisions at the time - and understand when judged in hindsight there will always be many mistakes.

 

[inconceivable]

Seems like you don't understand concepts like sunk cost and imperfect planning.

I am glad the Blazers moved on from Ayton at this time. Maybe you view going in a new direction as regret. Others might view that as making updated decisions with new information.

Imagine that you buy a $100 ticket to Ski Resort Average.⠀

⠀

A few days later, you find a $50 deal for Ski Resort Better.⠀

⠀

The $50 Better deal features better slopes, nicer snow, and a more fun experience.⠀

⠀

On impulse, you buy that ticket, too. ⠀

⠀

Then you discover that the two tickets are valid *only* on the same day. Bummer!⠀

⠀

The tickets are non-refundable and non-transferrable.⠀

⠀

You’re faced with a choice: you have to sacrifice *either* the $100 ticket or the $50 ticket.⠀

⠀

Which one would you choose?⠀

⠀

Researchers posed this question to research subjects. The majority said they’d sacrifice the $50 ticket, even though it promised the more fun experience.⠀

⠀

Why?⠀

⠀

Loss aversion. Most people prefer to minimize their losses, even if it means enduring a sub-par experience.⠀

⠀

This is known as the “sunk cost fallacy.”⠀

_________⠀

⠀

Imagine this:⠀

⠀

A man wins one free baseball ticket from a radio show. He convinces his friend to buy a $20 ticket to accompany him.⠀

⠀

On game day, there’s a freak springtime blizzard.⠀

⠀

The man who won the free ticket says, “I don’t want to drive in this snow. I’m not going.”⠀

⠀

His friend, however, protests, “I don’t want to waste the $20 I paid for the ticket!”⠀

⠀

“The friend who purchased the ticket is not behaving rationally,” ⠀

⠀

“The $20 has been paid whether one goes or not … It should in no way influence the decision to go.”⠀

________⠀

⠀

We hang onto losing investments to “see if I can break even” or "see if it will come back."⠀

⠀

We linger in unsatisfying careers since we “already put ten years into it” or "already got the degree."⠀

⠀

We heap extra debt onto our credit cards, since “I’m in so much debt, an extra $200 won’t matter.”⠀

⠀

Think about the sunk cost fallacy the next time you're stuck in a job you don’t like, holding a losing investment, or forcing yourself to finish a project.⠀

⠀

The time and money you’ve sunk are irrelevant. Look ahead, not behind.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't understand why people try to correlate these.

Camara was a throw in to the Ayton deal, he wasn't a key piece of the trade so shouldn't be judged as a relevant one to Ayton in hindsight.

Blazers could have still sent Allen to PHX for some other pieces to get Camara. Or done a completely separate deal to get Camara. Or just drafted him.

If we don't trade for Ayton, we don't get Camara. They're linked. How would Phoenix have taken on Allen without sending out Ayton?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

they wanted Tou before Phoenix got him.

The Blazers couldn't have wanted Camara very much since they drafted both Kris and Rayan before Camara a few months prior. It shouldn't have been hard to acquire a #52 or higher 2nd round pick if the Blazers wanted all three.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Imagine that you buy a $100 ticket to Ski Resort Average.⠀

⠀

A few days later, you find a $50 deal for Ski Resort Better.⠀

⠀

The $50 Better deal features better slopes, nicer snow, and a more fun experience.⠀

⠀

On impulse, you buy that ticket, too. ⠀

⠀

Then you discover that the two tickets are valid *only* on the same day. Bummer!⠀

⠀

The tickets are non-refundable and non-transferrable.⠀

⠀

You’re faced with a choice: you have to sacrifice *either* the $100 ticket or the $50 ticket.⠀

⠀

Which one would you choose?⠀

⠀

Researchers posed this question to research subjects. The majority said they’d sacrifice the $50 ticket, even though it promised the more fun experience.⠀

⠀

Why?⠀

⠀

Loss aversion. Most people prefer to minimize their losses, even if it means enduring a sub-par experience.⠀

⠀

This is known as the “sunk cost fallacy.”⠀

_________⠀

⠀

Imagine this:⠀

⠀

A man wins one free baseball ticket from a radio show. He convinces his friend to buy a $20 ticket to accompany him.⠀

⠀

On game day, there’s a freak springtime blizzard.⠀

⠀

The man who won the free ticket says, “I don’t want to drive in this snow. I’m not going.”⠀

⠀

His friend, however, protests, “I don’t want to waste the $20 I paid for the ticket!”⠀

⠀

“The friend who purchased the ticket is not behaving rationally,” ⠀

⠀

“The $20 has been paid whether one goes or not … It should in no way influence the decision to go.”⠀

________⠀

⠀

We hang onto losing investments to “see if I can break even” or "see if it will come back."⠀

⠀

We linger in unsatisfying careers since we “already put ten years into it” or "already got the degree."⠀

⠀

We heap extra debt onto our credit cards, since “I’m in so much debt, an extra $200 won’t matter.”⠀

⠀

Think about the sunk cost fallacy the next time you're stuck in a job you don’t like, holding a losing investment, or forcing yourself to finish a project.⠀

⠀

The time and money you’ve sunk are irrelevant. Look ahead, not behind.

Good examples - agreed.

 

[THE HCP]

I'm good with it - I greatly prefer new threads spring up and die then we get massive threads with hundreds of posts.

Not when you have people posting the same exact opinion in 5 different threads. Clean this shit up Sly!

 

[Natebishop3]

The Blazers couldn't have wanted Camara very much since they drafted both Kris and Rayan before Camara a few months prior. It shouldn't have been hard to acquire a #52 or higher 2nd round pick if the Blazers wanted all three.

Except some stuff happened between the draft and the trade.

https://www.nba.com/news/nba-2k24-s...camara-double-double-elevates-suns-to-victory



Camara looked great during summer league. The team was clearly impressed by him. They demanded that he be included. It's not like they fell ass backwards into him. The buzz immediately after trading for him was that he would be part of the rotation.