Bad News On Stimulus Jobs

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This was supposed to be about something besides posts on raping and posts from trolls.

Here's a thought- can we get back on task?
 
What the hell just happened here?
 
BLAZER PROPHET said:
barfo got carried away and a troll infiltrated to be a troll. But, these things happen on a message board some time.

Soooooooooooooooooooo, whaddya think of the stimulus jobs? :drumroll:
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Says the guy who took the thread off-subject in the first place...

barfo
 
BLAZER PROPHET said:
I beg to differ! [here we go again............ :ohno:]
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Go ahead and beg. But my post, while a joke, was addressing the topic of stimulus jobs. Your post in response had nothing whatsoever to do with jobs.

barfo
 
BP VVVVVV
[video=youtube;uKpX-5jQjQ0]"]
 
BLAZER PROPHET said:
[sigh] Why me?
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Why you? Because you derailed the thread and then complained about the thread being derailed. That's why you.

Et tu, barfo?
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Just to be clear, I don't mind that you derailed the thread. I'm not concerned at all about thread derailment, because usually (although not this time) they end up more interesting that way.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Why you? Because you derailed the thread and then complained about the thread being derailed. That's why you.



Just to be clear, I don't mind that you derailed the thread. I'm not concerned at all about thread derailment, because usually (although not this time) they end up more interesting that way.

barfo
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BS :tsktsk:
 
I can derail the thread AND stay on topic. I heard that in the stimulus money there was a grant given to some scientists to see if Angels do exist and what it would take to rape them.

By the way, I would appreciate it if people didn't edit posts or delete threads unless there was a possible violation of federal law in them. If you said it, I want to read it.
 
IDK if this was mentioned in this thread already. I'm not going one way or another on this, I just saw this was on the Yahoo! front page and thought it was relevant.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_stimulus_jobs

Gov't says stimulus saved or created 650,000 jobs

WASHINGTON – About 650,000 jobs have been saved or created under President Barack Obama's economic stimulus plan, the White House said Friday, saying it is on track to reach the president's goal of 3.5 million jobs by the end of next year.

New job numbers from businesses, contractors, state and local governments, nonprofit groups and universities were scheduled to be released publicly later Friday. White House economic adviser Jared Bernstein said the figures will show that, when adding in jobs linked to $288 billion in tax cuts, the stimulus plan has created or saved more than 1 million jobs.

The data will be posted on recovery.gov, the web site of the independent panel overseeing stimulus spending.

"It's a great example of the unprecedented transparency, where the American taxpayer can point and click and see their taxes creating jobs," Bernstein said.

Government recovery plans — everything from the $787 billion stimulus to tax credits for buying new homes to government deals on new cars — are credited with helping the economy grow again after a record four straight losing quarters.

But the job market has yet to show signs of recovery, putting pressure on the White House to show that the stimulus was worth its hefty price tag.

When it is released Friday, the new data will be the largest and most complete look at how the stimulus money has been spent so far. The White House promised the data would be far more reliable than the first batch of numbers on federal contracts, which the administration initially embraced, then branded a "test run" after thousands of errors were discovered.

Teachers are expected to represent the largest number of jobs in the report. With state budgets in crisis, federal aid helped governors avoid major cuts in education, which officials said spared hundreds of thousands of teachers from the unemployment line.
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MrJayremmie said:
IDK if this was mentioned in this thread already. I'm not going one way or another on this, I just saw this was on the Yahoo! front page and thought it was relevant.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_stimulus_jobs

Gov't says stimulus saved or created 650,000 jobs
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Why don't they just say they saved or created 2,000,000 jobs? 20,000,000? The basic issue is that "saved" jobs isn't a metric that can be measured, which has been acknowledged by economists across the political spectrum.
 
maxiep said:
Why don't they just say they saved or created 2,000,000 jobs? 20,000,000? The basic issue is that "saved" jobs isn't a metric that can be measured, which has been acknowledged by economists across the political spectrum.
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Why not say that they have saved the job of everybody in the workforce?
 
Today's stimulus jobs are tomorrow's lay-offs.

You cannot artificially stimulate the economy, sooner or later it is going to correct itself.
 
Buzz Killington said:
Today's stimulus jobs are tomorrow's lay-offs.

You cannot artificially stimulate the economy, sooner or later it is going to correct itself.
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I think you are missing the point. The idea here is not to make permanent improvements, the idea is to make the bottom of the recession trough not quite as deep as it would have been otherwise.

barfo
 
maxiep said:
Why don't they just say they saved or created 2,000,000 jobs? 20,000,000? The basic issue is that "saved" jobs isn't a metric that can be measured, which has been acknowledged by economists across the political spectrum.
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This is true. The "saved" business is just politics.

Not that this is the first administration to play games with numbers. If I remember correctly Reagan actually redefined unemployment, so that fewer people were counted as unemployed.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I think you are missing the point. The idea here is not to make permanent improvements, the idea is to make the bottom of the recession trough not quite as deep as it would have been otherwise.

barfo
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by extending the problem further into the future by borrowing money the US doesn't have to create non-essential jobs for the sake of creating them?
 
Buzz Killington said:
by extending the problem further into the future by borrowing money the US doesn't have to create non-essential jobs for the sake of creating them?
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No, to flatten out the bottom of the recession trough, as I mentioned.

barfo
 
barfo said:
This is true. The "saved" business is just politics.

Not that this is the first administration to play games with numbers. If I remember correctly Reagan actually redefined unemployment, so that fewer people were counted as unemployed.

barfo
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Two wrongs don't make a right. When you see something that's bullshit, you shouldn't make an excuse for it. You should call bullshit. And this saved jobs idea is bullshit.
 
barfo said:
No, to flatten out the bottom of the recession trough, as I mentioned.

barfo
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who's to say that it actually did anything to "flatten" this mythical trough you are referring to that time wouldn't have fixed on its own? This stimulus program was used to fund special pet project programs that the democrats wanted to implement. It was so rushed that it was just throwing cash.
 
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maxiep said:
Two wrongs don't make a right. When you see something that's bullshit, you shouldn't make an excuse for it. You should call bullshit. And this saved jobs idea is bullshit.
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I didn't make an excuse for it. I said it was just politics (meaning, has no value beyond politics).

I did observe that your hero did the same sort of thing. Sorry if that bothers you.

barfo
 
Buzz Killington said:
who's to say that it actually did anything to "flatten" this mythical trough you are referring to that time wouldn't have fixed on its own?
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Well, various economists. There are various economists who would disagree, too. So we'll never know for sure.

I don't think the recession was "mythical", however. I'm pretty sure every economist agrees we were in a recession.

barfo
 
maxiep said:
Is that why we've only spent 14% of the "stimulus" money?
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You know as well as I do (probably better) that a commitment to spend money works as a stimulus.

barfo
 
Buzz Killington said:
who's to say that it actually did anything to "flatten" this mythical trough you are referring to that time wouldn't have fixed on its own? This stimulus program was used to fund special pet project programs that the democrats wanted to implement. It was so rushed that it was just throwing cash.
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If it was so rushed then why is so little of it spent?

This "mythical" trough seems to have been identified and discovered by many economists. So I guess they're all "mythical" too, eh?

The problem is that sometime people think only of the here and now. On the Democrat side, they don't foresee (or at least I'd say those in Congress) the effects of huge deficits in later years. On the Republican side, they refuse to see that things could very easily have/will/could have spiraled out of control. If you don't start patching up the bottom of the boat while you're taking on water, you sink.
 
yakbladder said:
If it was so rushed then why is so little of it spent?

This "mythical" trough seems to have been identified and discovered by many economists. So I guess they're all "mythical" too, eh?

The problem is that sometime people think only of the here and now. On the Democrat side, they don't foresee (or at least I'd say those in Congress) the effects of huge deficits in later years. On the Republican side, they refuse to see that things could very easily have/will/could have spiraled out of control. If you don't start patching up the bottom of the boat while you're taking on water, you sink.
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You don't think the stimulus bill was rushed? The fact that so little of it is spent is of little relevance here to this ill-thought of, shot in the dark and haphazard infusion of cash into the economy.
 
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