Ballin' Obama

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If the war ended a long time ago, then why are American soldiers still dying? There were no weapons of mass destruction. We had no affiliation with Iraq prior to the war strong enough to go and completely fix their country. We have no reason to be there. This is ridiculous. It has been so poorly managed by our president, it sickens me. It sickens me to know people are still dying over there. I'm going to say this again. We have no reason to be there. Now I know how difficult it's going to be to get out. I'm sad to say Obama's 15 month plan is near impossible.
 
Soldiers are dying because terrorists continue to attack them....the war in which our forces engaged iraqi forces ended in less than year....We have no other reason to be there except that the Iraqi people cant defend themselves from groups that would seige control via military action....No weapons of mass destruction were FOUND, which doesnt mean they didnt exist. But, even if they didnt, it doesnt mean he was trying to get them. Saddam Hussein was conficted of genocide by an Iraqi Special Tribunal and executed by them. Lets not pretend that his death wasnt a giant step up for a people pinned under his thumb for 2 and half decades. I would love to have all the troops home and out of harms way, but they are doing an important job there, and considering that we employ a 100% vollunteer force, no one is there that didnt choose to be there....
 
The capture of Hussein obviously did nothing but help things for both sides, but I really don't think we need to sacrifice our soldiers to save a country that we have no affiliation with. And although we have a volunteer force, that doesn't mean that they should be out there.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tim @ Jul 6 2008, 03:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The capture of Hussein obviously did nothing but help things for both sides, but I really don't think we need to sacrifice our soldiers to save a country that we have no affiliation with. And although we have a volunteer force, that doesn't mean that they should be out there.</div>

So Darfur is out? I'm just asking because I think it's interesting that there's such a liberal calling for 1) Bush's head on a stick for going to Iraq and 2) action in Darfur.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tim @ Jul 6 2008, 02:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The capture of Hussein obviously did nothing but help things for both sides, but I really don't think we need to sacrifice our soldiers to save a country that we have no affiliation with. And although we have a volunteer force, that doesn't mean that they should be out there.</div>

If the French had taken that attitude in the 1770s, America would have lost the revolutionary war, yesterday would have meant a hell of lot less than it did, and heros like Ben Franklyn, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson would have been hanged as traitors....If there is one thing the American people should be able to relate to when it comes to Iraq, it should be the struggles of a people to throw off a tyranical government and establish a country of thier own. Do not forget this line, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" That statement is at the heart of this nations existence, and If you believe it, I dont see how you could oppose our presence in a county trying desperately to gain what we all take for granted as a birth right....sometimes doing the right thing is difficult, but no ammount of difficulty makes it less right....
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Having an eduation doesnt make you smart, but you do have to be smart to pursue and complete an education on the level he has....</div>

Wrong again, you need to have dedication, and a hard work ethic, which he obviously has.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What about the Iraq war flies in the face of common sense? A dictator that killed millions of innocent people may have weapons of mass destruction that would start a war that would end man's existence on this earth so WE THE PEOPLE went in there and got him. After removing him, the people of Iraq want to set up a democracy so we stay to help and provide them with some force to ensure they can defend themselves from the other predator nations that might want to take the area....the Iraqi war was won several years ago, the US presence there is a service to the citizens of a now free democracy...btw, that breath you and everyone else around the world will be taking in a second, and every one that follows until you die, YOUR ****ing WELCOME....not that any other nation would say thank you....</div>

C'mon mate, this is absolute trash.

For starters, the U.S invaded Iraq to de-throne Suddam Hussein, because the U.S. viewed him as a terrorist threat, in the wake of 9/11. They invaded Iraq to disarm him of these supposed "weapons of mass destruction", which the U.S. never had evidence of him having. Suddam never posed an immediate threat to the U.S. This poor excuse of "turning Iraq into a democracy" was a quick cover, for what was essentially a terrorist attack from the U.S government.

Your "smart" leader decided that he was a threat, that he had W.O.M.D. (when he really didn't, and had no proof that he did) and that he needed to be stopped now, in one big **** up which has left thousands upon thousands of innocent men, women and children, Iraqi and American (not to mention the other Nations that have had soldiers that have contributed), killed. Familes are without homes, have lost loved ones, and for what? Iraq is in worse condition now, than it was before the U.S. Invaded. The only one positive to come from this whole debarcle, is the capture, and execution of Saddam Hussein.

Tell me, how is any of this smart?

Also get off your high horse with this "be thankful for every breath you take, America FTW" bullshit, it's a complete joke. Get over yourself.
 
One nuclear weapon, launched by a head of state, would result in the mutual destruction of most of the population. There is, at a minumum, tons of evidence that Saddam Hussein pursued a nuclear program. How close were they? I dont know, but Im sure they had the ability to get antrax, which is a low cost WMD. He definetly used mustard gas on Kurds and that is a WMD. So lets not pretend like it was huge mistake to assume he had others. The Iraqi war lasted less than a year, and accomplished its primary mission, the removal of a genocidal, manical dictator that either had or was trying to get his hands on weapons of a massive scale.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 03:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>One nuclear weapon, launched by a head of state, would result in the mutual destruction of most of the population. There is, at a minumum, tons of evidence that Saddam Hussein pursued a nuclear program. How close were they? I dont know, but Im sure they had the ability to get antrax, which is a low cost WMD. He definetly used mustard gas on Kurds and that is a WMD. So lets not pretend like it was huge mistake to assume he had others. The Iraqi war lasted less than a year, and accomplished its primary mission, the removal of a genocidal, manical dictator that either had or was trying to get his hands on weapons of a massive scale.</div>

Should we invade and destroy India, because they MIGHT have some people who hate the U.S. with access to some destructive weapons?

C'mon man, get real. You're basing your arguement off hearsay, and baseless possibilities.
 
Its hearsay that Saddam Hussein used Mustard Gas on 5000 Kurds? Thats hearsay? Do you know what hearsay means? I hearsayed it right from the history books....and further, comparing a few citizens who might hate the US to a dictator thats killed with WMD before is beyond ridiculous....of course, you are the same poster that thinks they give out MBAs from Harvard in cereal boxes, so to say your arguments are disconnected from reality is like saying Michael Jackson may have undergone some minor changes in his life....
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Its hearsay that Saddam Hussein used Mustard Gas on 5000 Kurds? Thats hearsay? Do you know what hearsay means? I hearsayed it right from the history books....</div>

I never doubted Saddam Hussein executed 5,000 Kurds, then again, this incident didn't involve America, and no direct threat was directed toward America because of it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>and further, comparing a few citizens who might hate the US to a dictator thats killed with WMD before is beyond ridiculous....</div>

Plenty of Nations, and their leaders, hate the U.S., in your moronic logic, we should just go blow them to pieces because they MIGHT pose a potential risk to the U.S., even though there isnt any considerable evidence suggesting so.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>of course, you are the same poster that thinks they give out MBAs from Harvard in cereal boxes, so to say your arguments are disconnected from reality is like saying Michael Jackson may have undergone some minor changes in his life....</div>

Ummm.... I never said it was easy to earn an MBA from Havard, I said, having such a degree, doesn't automatically mean you're smart, which is the argument at hand here. I stated it takes dedication, and a strong work ethic to obtain such an honour, which it does. I never said it was "just handed out".

You can have all the degrees in the world, yet still lack somthing as simple as 'common sense', which really, is a better indication of how smart a person really is. You might know what the scientific compound build up of Air is, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're the smartest man in town.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NTC @ Jul 6 2008, 03:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Its hearsay that Saddam Hussein used Mustard Gas on 5000 Kurds? Thats hearsay? Do you know what hearsay means? I hearsayed it right from the history books....</div>

I never doubted Saddam Hussein executed 5,000 Kurds, then again, this incident didn't involve America, and no direct threat was directed toward America because of it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>and further, comparing a few citizens who might hate the US to a dictator thats killed with WMD before is beyond ridiculous....</div>

Plenty of Nations, and their leaders, hate the U.S., in your moronic logic, we should just go blow them to pieces because they MIGHT pose a potential risk to the U.S., even though there isnt any considerable evidence suggesting so.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>of course, you are the same poster that thinks they give out MBAs from Harvard in cereal boxes, so to say your arguments are disconnected from reality is like saying Michael Jackson may have undergone some minor changes in his life....</div>

Ummm.... I never said it was easy to earn an MBA from Havard, I said, having such a degree, doesn't automatically mean you're smart, which is the argument at hand here. I stated it takes dedication, and a strong work ethic to obtain such an honour, which it does. I never said it was "just handed out".

You can have all the degrees in the world, yet still lack somthing as simple as 'common sense', which really, is a better indication of how smart a person really is. You might know what the scientific compound build up of Air is, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're the smartest man in town.
</div>

I gracefully accept your apology....
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef @ Jul 6 2008, 05:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I gracefully accept your apology....</div>

 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jul 6 2008, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Someone got lazy.

Oh and yeah, I concur with NTC.</div>

Then I accept your apology as well....
 
Beef, you went too far out of your way to call out Obama's basketball skills. You're killing the fun here; not too cool of you.

It looks silly as hell, let it go next time. This is supposed to be a laid back thread, we don't always need to go on serious tangents.
 
Fair enough....Im not trying to kill the fun, I was just pointing out that some of those clips of him blowing by guys arent real and hes not too fundementally sound, which at 46, I expect a lack of explosivness, but fundamentals shouldnt have faded....I see a man that pretends to be a lot of things hes not because hes trying to seduce a young populace into making him the president....I decided to stay out of the political stuff when I became commish of fun, but I couldnt resist jumping in on a few of them....I will likely stay out of most of these in the future....
 
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