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It took Nate 5 yrs and Brandon going down to finally trust Aldridge. I can only imagine how long it will take him to trust Batum.
 
yuyuza1 said:
It took Nate 5 yrs and Brandon going down to finally trust Aldridge. I can only imagine how long it will take him to trust Batum.
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To be fair, Aldridge wasn't an assertive player and neither is Batum. Being assertive has its good points and bad points, but it's hard to know what you're going to get, from a scoring perspective, from a player who's willing to defer quite a lot. I don't tend to form value judgments about player's character from their play on-court, so I don't think deferring means that a player is meek or weak or scared. I think players like Aldridge and Batum probably think that the team is better served by one extra pass when they defer. The problem is that there are only so many "easy shots" in a game, and you need some players who are willing to take the difficult shots because they're more talented and more likely to make them than their teammates.

Aldridge has finally started taking the difficult shots rather than passing the ball again to help his team find an easy shot. Batum won't make the leap until he also starts doing that (and also shows that he has the talent to routinely knock them down...if he doesn't have that talent, developing the mindset to take the tough shots will actually weaken him as a player).
 
Minstrel said:
To be fair, Aldridge wasn't an assertive player and neither is Batum. Being assertive has its good points and bad points, but it's hard to know what you're going to get, from a scoring perspective, from a player who's willing to defer quite a lot. I don't tend to form value judgments about player's character from their play on-court, so I don't think deferring means that a player is meek or weak or scared. I think players like Aldridge and Batum probably think that the team is better served by one extra pass when they defer. The problem is that there are only so many "easy shots" in a game, and you need some players who are willing to take the difficult shots because they're more talented and more likely to make them than their teammates.

Aldridge has finally started taking the difficult shots rather than passing the ball again to help his team find an easy shot. Batum won't make the leap until he also starts doing that (and also shows that he has the talent to routinely knock them down...if he doesn't have that talent, developing the mindset to take the tough shots will actually weaken him as a player).
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The problem is that we wont truly know that until we try. Which means 36+ mins and more sets for him in the offensive. At very least even if he fails we would have a better understanding of how to use him. Right now, I really dont think he nor the team knows what his role is on this team.
 
Why do you think he'll follow orders and shoot a lot if he plays 36 minutes, when he won't do so at 30 minutes? What's so special about 36? 30 is plenty of time to get into the groove, get his momentum going, get the oil spread in the carburetor and his joints flexing.
 
Boise Blazer said:
The problem is that we wont truly know that until we try. Which means 36+ mins and more sets for him in the offensive. At very least even if he fails we would have a better understanding of how to use him. Right now, I really dont think he nor the team knows what his role is on this team.
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I'm definitely not opposed to Batum playing more minutes. He's been my favorite player on the team for several years and I'd love to see him play more. But jlprk is right in a way...a few more minutes a night isn't going to change his attitude in terms of when to pass and when to shoot. You get development and experience from minutes, but not necessarily aggression. I don't really know how you instill aggression in a player...and further, as I mentioned, if you instill aggression in Batum and it turns out that he can't sustain efficiency while shooting more, you've made him a worse player. So there are risks in how you develop him. That's why McMillan is in a tricky situation with Batum. I think he should play Batum more, but the best way to use Batum and what he should tell Batum to do is not fully clear, IMO.
 
Yes, I do think 6-10 more minutes a game would help for flow but I think even more important than that is combining that with using him as a true 2nd options and running more sets for him in the offense.
 
Minstrel said:
I'm definitely not opposed to Batum playing more minutes. He's been my favorite player on the team for several years and I'd love to see him play more. But jlprk is right in a way...a few more minutes a night isn't going to change his attitude in terms of when to pass and when to shoot. You get development and experience from minutes, but not necessarily aggression. I don't really know how you instill aggression in a player...and further, as I mentioned, if you instill aggression in Batum and it turns out that he can't sustain efficiency while shooting more, you've made him a worse player. So there are risks in how you develop him. That's why McMillan is in a tricky situation with Batum. I think he should play Batum more, but the best way to use Batum and what he should tell Batum to do is not fully clear, IMO.
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I can kind of see your point but I think Batum is too good of an all around player for that to happen. Maybe thats the homer in me talking.
 
Boise Blazer said:
I can kind of see your point but I think Batum is too good of an all around player for that to happen. Maybe thats the homer in me talking.
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I'm a huge Batum fan and I've felt he was a tremendous talent since midway through his rookie season. I think it's still uncertain as to whether he's a great scoring talent. He shows bits and pieces of offensive brilliance, but is it only flashes because he hasn't been sufficiently developed or is it only flashes because he lacks the talent to be consistently excellent? Offensive talent is on a sliding scale among NBA players and nearly every NBA player has the capability to be great offensively at times...talent is really measured by how often they can do it.
 
Minstrel said:
I'm a huge Batum fan and I've felt he was a tremendous talent since midway through his rookie season. I think it's still uncertain as to whether he's a great scoring talent. He shows bits and pieces of offensive brilliance, but is it only flashes because he hasn't been sufficiently developed or is it only flashes because he lacks the talent to be consistently excellent? Offensive talent is on a sliding scale among NBA players and nearly every NBA player has the capability to be great offensively at times...talent is really measured by how often they can do it.
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I guess thats why I like the idea of Nash so much (realistic or not the idea is intriguing). While I dont really see Batum as scoring machine I think he can be a very good 2nd offensive option. I look at what Nash did for the Matrix and I think that Batum is at least as good offensively.
 
Boise Blazer said:
I guess thats why I like the idea of Nash so much (realistic or not the idea is intriguing). While I dont really see Batum as scoring machine I think he can be a very good 2nd offensive option. I look at what Nash did for the Matrix and I think that Batum is at least as good offensively.
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It's a reason why I disliked ditching Andre Miller for Felton. While Miller is not as good as Nash, I do think Miller is very talented at getting teammates involved and I think he was a big part of Aldridge's emergence. I think he might have been able to help Batum, too (and Oden, but hey, there's a scab that we don't need to pick yet again!).
 
Minstrel said:
It's a reason why I disliked ditching Andre Miller for Felton. While Miller is not as good as Nash, I do think Miller is very talented at getting teammates involved and I think he was a big part of Aldridge's emergence. I think he might have been able to help Batum, too (and Oden, but hey, there's a scab that we don't need to pick yet again!).
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And what pisses me off about that is the main reason we got rid of Miller was that he couldnt shoot from outside. And now we have the worst of both worlds.
 
Minstrel said:
I've felt he was a tremendous talent since midway through his rookie season. I think it's still uncertain as to whether he's a great scoring talent. He shows bits and pieces of offensive brilliance, but is it only flashes because he hasn't been sufficiently developed or is it only flashes because he lacks the talent to be consistently excellent?
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It seems like I've read this before, in fact, with every McMillan young player. Then after a few years the player is traded and his critics say, see? He's not starring for his next coach, either.

McMillan is not good at developing youth, but Sarge is good at keeping them in line. He's not a teaching (practice) coach, and not an adjustments (gametime) coach...But he projects a good leadership image. He'd do well in the Republican debates and might win some, certainly more than Herman Cain.
 
Batum has a usage rate higher than Gerald Wallace (16.4) @ 17.8; which is 24th in the league for SFs.

Batum's PER is higher than G. Wallace (15.5) @ 18.71; which is 7th in the league for SFs.

Batum's TS% is higher than G. Wallace (55.9%) @ 59.1%; which is 8th in the league for SFs.

Batum's ORR is higher than G. Wall (4.2) @ 5.7; which is 11th in the league for SFs.

Batum's Value Added is higher than G. Wall (71.3) @ 82.9; which is 9th in the league for SFs.

Batum's estimated Wins added is higher than G. Wall (2.4) @ 2.8; which is 9th in the league for SFs.

Just saying
 
Minstrel said:
I'm definitely not opposed to Batum playing more minutes. He's been my favorite player on the team for several years and I'd love to see him play more. But jlprk is right in a way...a few more minutes a night isn't going to change his attitude in terms of when to pass and when to shoot. You get development and experience from minutes, but not necessarily aggression. I don't really know how you instill aggression in a player...and further, as I mentioned, if you instill aggression in Batum and it turns out that he can't sustain efficiency while shooting more, you've made him a worse player. So there are risks in how you develop him. That's why McMillan is in a tricky situation with Batum. I think he should play Batum more, but the best way to use Batum and what he should tell Batum to do is not fully clear, IMO.
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That's a valid point. And it may not just be Nate. We've got a very recent example of a lanky SF with worlds of athleticism who was told SHOOT! SHOOT! SHOOT! There was a time Travis Outlaw was seen as having superstar upside. Now he's known as a low-efficiency gunner who doesn't much care about defense or team play or pretty much anything outside of taking jumpshots and eating catfish.

Batum is definitely a different cat. But you have to kind of wonder how these two players would look if we'd swapped them around. There may be a little less of an interest throughout the organization into making Batum too focused on scoring too early after the Outlaw experience.
 
westnob said:
wait, there are 24 SF better than GWall and Batum!?
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USG% by itself has NOTHING to do with better. A guy who shoots a lot but at a very low percentage will have a very high USG%. In that case, a high USG% makes him worse, not better. On the other hand, a player who has a high USG%, but scores very efficiently will be an MVP candidate. Jamaal Crawford is currently 10th in the entire league in USG%. He's not an MVP candidate.

BNM
 
Boise Blazer said:
And what pisses me off about that is the main reason we got rid of Miller was that he couldnt shoot from outside. And now we have the worst of both worlds.
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Defensive efficiency is much higher this year than in past years with Miller, though. Felton is shooting like crap, but he is still defending well, and not getting blown by on a consistent basis.

4th in DEF EFF this year.

2010-11 - 16th
2009-10 - 15th
 
Last edited:
Boob-No-More said:
USG% by itself has NOTHING to do with better. A guy who shoots a lot but at a very low percentage will have a very high USG%. In that case, a high USG% makes him worse, not better. On the other hand, a player who has a high USG%, but scores very efficiently will be an MVP candidate. Jamaal Crawford is currently 10th in the entire league in USG%. He's not an MVP candidate.

BNM
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And he's used more than Aldridge to boot! LOL

EPSN has Crawful at 14th in usage.
 
magnifier661 said:
And he's used more than Aldridge to boot! LOL
EPSN has Crawful at 14th in usage.
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USG% doesn't tell you how much a player is used, though. It's a percentage of how many possessions end with them getting a point/assist/turnover/etc.

Crawford's assist % of 25.3% is actually not bad for a SG forced to play PG. Odd thing is, his WS/48 this season is the 2nd-best of his career. As bad as he is shooting, if he can go even back to his norm, he'll be a near 19 PER.
 
PapaG said:
Defensive efficiency is much higher this year than in past years with Roy, though. Matthews is shooting like crap, but he is still defending well, and not getting blown by on a consistent basis.

4th in DEF EFF this year.

2010-11 - 16th
2009-10 - 15th
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Funny how you can set the narrative by which variables you choose to isolate. ;)
 
magnifier661 said:
EPSN has Crawful at 14th in usage.
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I was using basketball-reference.com. I trust their stats more as they only include players on pace to meet the minimum requirements to quality for league leaders.

BNM
 
Nic played like he did tonight in some of the early Euroleague games this season. He even averaged more assists because he was lead guard. He certainly can do it on this stage.
 
PapaG said:
Defensive efficiency is much higher this year than in past years with Miller, though. Felton is shooting like crap, but he is still defending well, and not getting blown by on a consistent basis.

4th in DEF EFF this year.

2010-11 - 16th
2009-10 - 15th
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How the fuck can you support that conclusion based on team defensive efficiency??????

The Net Production stats at 82games.com tell a much different story.

Felton this season (before getting completely outplayed, once again, tonight) has a Net Production of -7.5.

Last year Miller had a Net Production of +4.1. Third best on the team behind Aldridge and Wallace.

For all the uninformed rhetoric from the Miller haters, the fact is he was rarely lit up by opposing PGs last season, not nearly as bad as Felton is getting outplayed on a nightly basis this year. You're blind hated of all things Andre Miller never ceases to amaze me. ALL the advanced stats point to the fact that Miller was CLEARLY and by a VERY wide margin, a MUCH better player than Raymond Felton, yet you stubbornly cling to some delusional fantasy that as bad as Felton sucks, he is somehow an upgrade over Andre Miller. Thinks that all you want. That doesn't make it true.

Our team defense is better this year for reasons that have nothing to do with Raymond Felton:

Full season of Gerald Wallace.
Healthier Marcus Camby missing far fewer games (so far - fingers crossed).
Greatly improved defensive play of LaMarcus Aldridge.
Wesley Mathews is the one who sucks on offense but has stepped up his defense. His Net Production is +4.9 and he's holding his opponents to PER of 8.6. Unlike Felton who's opponents are going off for a PER of 17.4.

BNM
 
yuyuza1 said:
[video=youtube;ORNPlu9oHqA]
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Thanks for posting that. He's got such a high release on that three point shot that it seems like he could take it whenever he wants.

I hope Aldridge recovers quickly, but if an injury like this had to happen, I'm glad it happened now. Hopefully Batum can build off this game to cement a role as a featured scorer on this team. His goal should be 20 shots every game with Aldridge out of rotation, and probably 15 with him in.
 
Nico's going to need to take another 20 tonight. If he doesn't, Crawford will (shudder).
 
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