Batum is good.

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mook said:
No doubt. Matisse, quiche, Paris, hot french chicks, crepes, hot french chicks....hot french chicks....
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In my defense, I used to live in Scandinavia. After hanging with Swedes, Norse, Finns and Danes, French women look pretty ordinary.
 
I am a racing driver like you, only from formula Ooh. Classic.
 
Hey, he might turn into Pippen, but right now I don't quite see it. Detlef came to my mind as well, but maybe not.

The Camby love is definitely well deserved. I agree that we probably wouldn't have these two wins without Marcus. I thought about starting a separate thread last night about Camby, but decided we had too many player threads going at once :)
 
axs88 said:
He has a PER of 30.4 :) The best among players who have played 2 games.
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What have any good players on say an overhyped team played two games yet? No, I would have heard about it if they had.
 
Kaydow said:
Batum is good, but not "Pippen Good". Nic reminds me more of a Detlef Schrempf - a solid player who can shoot, pass, defend multiple positions, & plays intelligent. Schrempf was more polished offensively, but I think that's where Batum's game is headed. He'll be able to post up smaller defenders, and he'll improve at facing up and either taking a jumper or going to the basket. Most nights Nic is a spot up shooter who grabs/tips a few offensive boards & runs the floor pretty well, but you see flashes of more offensive versatility.

Pippen in his prime was one of the most dynamic players in the game. He could take over games with his defense, scoring, passing. I remember the 2000 WCF after we took Game 2 in LA. Before the game reporters were asking PJ about Pippen's D. He said "Scottie can't guard 5 guys at once". After the Blazers crushed the Lakers in Game 2 Phil said "I was right, he could only guard Shaq, Kobe, & Glen Rice." And that was an "old" SP. It's not fair to compair Nic to one of the Greatest 50 Players of All Time, but he is good. Really Good. I had forgotten that we really didn't draft Nic. Houston did, then traded him to us for the rights to Darrell Arthur and Joey Dorsey. Not a bad move.
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Batum is easily the best choice of KP's career. It's not even close. Batum was one of the best players in that draft. I remember when early rankings had him going top 10. KP definitely worked his evil magic on that one. Good job KP and thank you where ever you are!
 
And to think all we gave up with Darrell Arthur and Joey Dorsey for Nic's draft rights.
 
Idog1976 said:
Batum is easily the best choice of KP's career. It's not even close. Batum was one of the best players in that draft. I remember when early rankings had him going top 10. KP definitely worked his evil magic on that one. Good job KP and thank you where ever you are!
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He didn't take credit for Nic, he gave it all to our international scout Jason Filippi.
 
RoyToy said:
Jason Filippi didn't maneuver to get him.
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Yeah that was still KP's best move by far. Well if you credit him with Roy then that was the best. I also think Bayless could explode in the right situation. KP was a draft day god his first couple of years, but he got a couple too many awesome deals where when the dust had settled other GM's asses hurt and they didn't like it. Anyways, the KP dynasty is dead long live the Cho dynasty! And KP where ever you are thanks for this team :)
 
Idog1976 said:
Yeah that was still KP's best move by far. Well if you credit him with Roy then that was the best. I also think Bayless could explode in the right situation. KP was a draft day god his first couple of years, but he got a couple too many awesome deals where when the dust had settled other GM's asses hurt and they didn't like it. Anyways, the KP dynasty is dead long live the Cho dynasty! And KP where ever you are thanks for this team :)
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Let's hope Cho doesn't blow it and makes a move before the trade deadline. If he doesn't do anything major to improve the team I'll be pretty disappointed.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
And to think all we gave up with Darrell Arthur and Joey Dorsey for Nic's draft rights.
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And to think some people were complaining on draft night about that trade, because wow...Arthur dropped to Portland.

Batum has been my favourite player on the team since about midway through his rookie season. I just love his game so much.

Regarding his handle...I'm not sure if he has the handle to isolate and create (he rarely/never is asked to), but he has enough of a handle to take a pass on the wing, have a defender close out on him, make a move and get a good shot attempt...either a mid-range jumper or something going to the hoop. So he has some ability to create his own shot, though I'll grant that it's not against a set defender.

I think Batum probably has unexplored aspects to his game. I don't necessarily think he can run the point, as he apparently has for the French team at times, but I think he probably has some ability to initiate offense...and he's only 21-22. By the time he hits his prime, I can see him having a Pippen-like game (even if he's not as good as Pippen, which is too much to predict). A guy who can defend 1-4, handle and distribute the ball and slash and shoot. Not to mention rebound. I think a prime Tayshaun Prince is his floor, not his ceiling.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
And to think all we gave up with Darrell Arthur and Joey Dorsey for Nic's draft rights.
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It was a good deal--and I liked it at the time, too--but Arthur looked pretty darn good last night :)

Ed O.
 
Ed O said:
It was a good deal--and I liked it at the time, too--but Arthur looked pretty darn good last night :)

Ed O.
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Yeah, I picked him up last night in fantasy hoops. Him and Jason Maxiell.
 
I need to see more out of Batum 1 on 1 before I predict anything more than Tayshaun Prince although their games really aren't very similar at all. Numbers will be comparable, but their games aren't. Prince has a good handle, can score in the post/create his own shot and is a legit point forward. Batum right now is pretty much just a sharpshooter(which is nice). I need to see more before I even think about comparing him to Scottie Pippen. Anyone going down that road right now is ridiculous.

I'm not really sure who is an ideal comparison for the current version of Batum. If he's not shooting wide open shots he's getting everything else within 5 feet of the basket from either a pass or offensive rebound. He's definitely a terrific glue player, though.
 
RoyToy said:
comparing him to Scottie Pippen. Anyone going down that road right now is ridiculous.
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It's not ridiculous to compare a young player to a Hall of Famer in terms of style. That says nothing about talent.

If you mean it's ridiculous to say Batum plays a game similar to Pippen's, then we'll just have to disagree. Pippen didn't remotely have point guard skills in his early seasons (and I say this with Pippen being my favourite player of all-time). He developed his handle and passing skills over the years. Batum is more advanced than Pippen at this age, clearly. The thing is, Pippen took some incredible, quantum leaps that made him a Hall of Famer. One can't predict those same quantum leaps for Batum. But his defensive length and versatility, intelligence, ability to handle the ball a bit, rebound, glide in for dunks...are eerily similar to a young Pippen. Whether he'll ever develop Pippen's point abilities is an open question, but the fact that he does it sometimes for his national team is a good sign.
 
Yeah, the Pippen comparison seems a little weak to me. Maybe on defense, although Pippen was so good I'd even be pretty careful there. But Pippen really only ever had a passable three point shot when he was playing at his very best.

Batum has already taken 300+ three point shots in his career and is drilling them at a .390 rate. That's pretty incredible for a 22 year old guy who was really drafted for his length and defensive potential.

Even if he never really maximizes his handle, he's a pretty intriguing small forward to have around. If he starts learning dribbling tricks from Roy, oh man just watch out. Batum definitely has the potential to be the best player on the team.
 
Minstrel said:
It's not ridiculous to compare a young player to a Hall of Famer in terms of style. That says nothing about talent.

If you mean it's ridiculous to say Batum plays a game similar to Pippen's, then we'll just have to disagree. Pippen didn't remotely have point guard skills in his early seasons (and I say this with Pippen being my favourite player of all-time). He developed his handle and passing skills over the years. Batum is more advanced than Pippen at this age, clearly. The thing is, Pippen took some incredible, quantum leaps that made him a Hall of Famer. One can't predict those same quantum leaps for Batum. But his defensive length and versatility, intelligence, ability to handle the ball a bit, rebound, glide in for dunks...are eerily similar to a young Pippen. Whether he'll ever develop Pippen's point abilities is an open question, but the fact that he does it sometimes for his national team is a good sign.
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Pippen was never a sharpshooter so their styles aren't a great match right off the bat. Other than finishing at the rim there's nothing Batum does that really reminds me of Pippen that any other player doesn't do.

Pippen didn't remotely have PG skills? That's strange, considering that was the position he was recruited as when he went to college as a 6-1 PG. It was between his freshman and sophomore year that he grew 6-7 inches and became the Pippen we all knew in the NBA. Also, when he was drafted he was already regarded as having a good handle and an all-around player. Sure he developed it along with passing as every player does but he had the natural ability to do it already because of being a 6-1 PG. Pippen was a rare and unique talent.

Again, Batum is nice but the Pippen comparisons are just ridiculous imo. Sure, they do some things alike because they're both 6-9 with long arms so visually they look similar. But after that that's where it stops for me. Batum's handle is nothing special for a SF and defensively right now he's just good, not great. We'll see what happens as he improves but I'll bet anything he doesn't even sniff Pippen's abilities.
 
RoyToy said:
Pippen didn't remotely have PG skills? That's strange, considering that was the position he was recruited as when he went to college as a 6-1 PG
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He was recruited as a point guard due to size. Did you watch Pippen in his first few NBA seasons? (Not being snarky, I have no idea how old you are.) He certainly wasn't playing a point guard like game. He was purely a wing (scorer/rebounder) and defender. He obviously had passing and handling talent...if he didn't, he wouldn't have become what he did later in his career. But he didn't have anything close to NBA caliber distributing ability early on.

And yes, Pippen wasn't a sharpshooter. That's the main difference, as far as I'm concerned.
 
mook said:
Yeah, the Pippen comparison seems a little weak to me. Maybe on defense, although Pippen was so good I'd even be pretty careful there. But Pippen really only ever had a passable three point shot when he was playing at his very best.
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I will admit that a large part of the Pippen comparison, maybe the largest part, is a visual thing. They have a similar "look" playing the game, a similar grace and style, to me. They both seem to instinctively understand what to do and where to be. By mid-season in his rookie year, as a 19 year old, he already looked comfortable on the court. Even if he wasn't a tremendous player, he just seemed so fluid and natural.

So while they may not be carbon copies of one another, there's a striking "Pippen-ness" to Batum, that I feel whenever I watch him play, that I never got from other players, even Tayshaun Prince, who some might say was similar to Pippen.
 
The thing is, a lot of you are comparing Batum now to Pippen as a finished product. Batum at the age of 21 is better than Pippen at the same age and experienced basketball at a much higher level than Pippen did at the same age.

In my opinion, Batum is just scraping the surface of what he's capable of.
 
Minstrel said:
He was recruited as a point guard due to size. Did you watch Pippen in his first few NBA seasons? (Not being snarky, I have no idea how old you are.) He certainly wasn't playing a point guard like game. He was purely a wing (scorer/rebounder) and defender. He obviously had passing and handling talent...if he didn't, he wouldn't have become what he did later in his career. But he didn't have anything close to NBA caliber distributing ability early on.

And yes, Pippen wasn't a sharpshooter. That's the main difference, as far as I'm concerned.
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Yeah, he was a 6-1 PG. I don't disagree.

Sure he wasn't point forward ready to begin with, but the natural ability and instincts were there from playing the position. I then agreed with you that he improved those skills like every player improves their skills the longer they're a pro, but like I said, I think it came more naturally to him. He still averaged over an assist more per game than Batum did last year and Pippen averaged 4 minutes less of playing time. Defensively he also averaged double the amount of steals than Batum did last year. This is Pippen's rookie year compared to Batum's 2nd year. You can make the age argument but between all the tournaments Batum has played in to his professional FIBA/Olympics/international career that more than makes up for it.

I personally need to see more out of Batum to even begin thinking about him and Scottie Pippen. I'll leave it at that.
 
Their builds are very similar at the same age. Seeing a 22 year-old Pippen gives me hope that Batum can fill out his frame like Pip did.

pippenpolynice_display_image.jpg


[video=youtube;h0f1EsUVCIU]
 
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Look at how skin and bones Pippen was at the beginning of his career. Damn!
 
MJ trained Pippen like most aggressive dog trainers train pit bulls. Batum has better tools than Pippen (Batum shoots better even did), but he'll never be as ferocious, and therefore as effective.

I don't mind, though. I see 2 things in these first two games from Batum that really get me excited - Rebounding and Green Light Shooting. If we get steady (Kersey-like) rebounding like we've seen from Batum, the blazers can make a lot of mistakes and still win. In fact, we have. We're 2-0, and we haven't had a good game yet. Batum is a fantastic 3-point shooter, and he's not hesitating/deferring. Don't give it to Batum with only a few seconds on the shot-clock, that's Roy's job. Just shoot it when you're open - he hasn't done this previously. Keep it up, Batum!
 
Idog1976 said:
Batum is easily the best choice of KP's career. It's not even close. Batum was one of the best players in that draft. I remember when early rankings had him going top 10. KP definitely worked his evil magic on that one. Good job KP and thank you where ever you are!
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In draft prediction threads at the time, I had Portland taking him at #13 and recall having company on that pick with a few others. Probably the main reason he dropped in the actual draft was a heart scare that happened during a workout with Toronto.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/news/story?id=3454367&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines

Portland had him in twice for workouts and (of course) their brass was very complimentary of his play. KP called him a pure SF with the potential to make an impact on the defensive end. Credit goes to Pritchard and the staff for recognizing talent, but... they were also fortunate that dude dropped to where they could maneuver to select him. With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, there are arguments for (at tops) 6 guys from that draft over Nic... Bayless isn't one of them

STOMP
 
I would LOVE for Batum to have a game similar to Pippens. Not sure if it's going to happen, but we can hope. I just want him to keep getting better, stick with the defense, and work on his handles. His shooting is already pretty damn good.
 
The Batum I've seen in the 4th quarter against the Clips is as good defensively, as smart, more athletic and in my eyes, as least as valuable as Pippen was for us when he finished his career here. Granted, that wasn't Pippen in his prime and Batum, in that 4th quarter, was the best Batum I've EVER seen. But, if he continues to play with this much confidence and determination, he'll win us a lot of games and the Sky's the limit for him.
Also, the Zone last night really brought out the greatness of Camby and Batum on defense: So long, so smart, so quick. LMA I think did an excellent job defensively during that time as well, and Roy and Miller looked comfortable and not at all confused. I've been telling you guys "zone defense" for several weeks now. I think that could be a deadly weapon this year.
 
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