Bayless or Roy?

[Da_O]

Let's rephrase the question in more pragmatic terms.

2 years from now, let's say it is apparant that Oden is a bust. Do you keep Bayless (at around $3 million) and try to unload Roy (at around $16 million) in an effort to restructure the team? Assuming that Bayless reaches his full potential - is the difference between him and Roy worth that big of a salary cap impact?

In this scenario I think it's fairly obvious you keep both Bayless and Roy. Players like Roy don't come around very often, and in your scenario Bayless reaches his potential so it's a plus to have two players that are very very good.

Conversely, let's say that 2 years from now, Oden really has become a "once in a generation" center.....but he and Roy can't coexist. Do you trade Oden, or trade Roy and hand the keys to Bayless? (again assuming Bayless reaches his full potential)

If Oden does become a "once in a generation" center, and Roy and him can't coexist you trade Roy. Great big men are harder to come by.

 

[MickZagger]

Absolutely. Roy is maybe one of the craftiest players in the league; he's somehow able to transform average NBA quickness (which is not the same as leaping ability) and make it seem like he's blowing by people, because of his hesitation moves.

So this idea that he doesn't use his "explosiveness" is pretty funny to me -- he doesn't really have much, but what he does have he maximizes.

Roy has a quick first step that gets players off balance at first, once he uses that first step he can either pull back and use his crossover to drive to the hoop with either hand and finish or pull up for the floater. He's deceptively quick. I think the reason he's so effective is because he's unpredictable.

 

[DaRizzle]

Dont ignore me KS....I make a valid point to Anthony Morrow being the best of all time!!!!

 

[STOMP]

Roy has a quick first step that gets players off balance at first, once he uses that first step he can either pull back and use his crossover to drive to the hoop with either hand and finish or pull up for the floater. He's deceptively quick. I think the reason he's so effective is because he's unpredictable...

...ambidextrous, and capable of capitalizing on whatever the D is allowing. His athleticism is top shelf and (at least offensively) his skillset is multifaceted. Dude can literally do it all and has the knack of only expending as much energy as is needed. He makes the game look easy

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

Roy has a quick first step that gets players off balance at first, once he uses that first step he can either pull back and use his crossover to drive to the hoop with either hand and finish or pull up for the floater. He's deceptively quick. I think the reason he's so effective is because he's unpredictable...

...ambidextrous, and capable of capitalizing on whatever the D is allowing. His athleticism is top shelf and his offensive skillset is multifaceted. Dude can literally do it all and has the knack of only expending as much energy as is needed. He makes the game look easy

STOMP

 

[yakbladder]

Just checking. On this board, one can never know for sure.

Yeah, I had to wait for the answer as I thought he was serious for a minute there too.

 

[44Thrilla]

wow, this thread should be pinned at the top of the forum forever.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

King I think you are getting a little to excited over a couple of good games. I hate to admit it but Laker fan has a good point look at all the guys who have had great games, it doesn't automatically put them into the hall of fame. You can't judge a guy by a couple of games and to already compare him to Roy is an insult to Roy. Bayless doesn't see the double and triple teams Roy sees every night while putting up his 11 straight games of 23 points or more. Bayless has a long ways to go to be mentioned in the same breath as Roy.

 

[EGame]

This is true 1 Eye Jack, but if Oden and Roy gets doubled (assuming Bayless is a starter next year and Oden is ready to go), I think they will put more focus on them until he proves to be a consistent threat as well, which I think he can. Then if Bayless gets to that status, what do you do with Roy? Aldridge? Webster/Batum who could get wide open a lot? Oden?

Edit: I guess my point is, it will be easier for Bayless to score and get better especially if that jumpshot is what we have been seeing latley.

 

[44Thrilla]

http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=2000&b=20010102&tm=SAC

 

[KingSpeed]

If that's not your position then I'm confused. Why start the thread then?

I was asking you all what you thought. That's all. Who do you think is better? That was the question. An original post doesn't have to state an opinion. It can be a question to start a discussion. That's all I did.

 

[KingSpeed]

Dont ignore me KS....I make a valid point to Anthony Morrow being the best of all time!!!!

You made no such point with that boxscore. And I never said Bayless was the best of all time.

 

[DaRizzle]

You made no such point with that boxscore. And I never said Bayless was the best of all time.

Well he is obviously better than Roy at the least!!!

 

[WillG]

Can't. . .stop. . .staring . . at . . DaRizzles. . . sig. . . O-O

 

[Da_O]

I was asking you all what you thought. That's all. Who do you think is better? That was the question. An original post doesn't have to state an opinion. It can be a question to start a discussion. That's all I did.

Roy is most obviously better, so why even start the thread. You then go on to defend Bayless, some with saying he had a better first start than Roy and that his percentages were a little bit higher. I could see how people could be confused.

 

[LameR]

No! Bad kingspeed, bad!

 

[KingSpeed]

Roy is most obviously better, .

Explain. Is it just because Roy has played more games and is more experienced? But what about how Bayless will be if he gets the same amount of games and the same amount of experience? I suppose I'm talking about ceilings in this case.

Just curious....

 

[Tince]

Explain. Is it just because Roy has played more games and is more experienced? But what about how Bayless will be if he gets the same amount of games and the same amount of experience? I suppose I'm talking about ceilings in this case.

Just curious....

I think most would agree that Roy is currently higher than Bayless' ceiling. That's no knock on Bayless either...

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I think most would agree that Roy is currently higher than Bayless' ceiling. That's no knock on Bayless either...

Of course, Roy's ceiling raised itself every season, as people said "Okay, now Roy has hit his ceiling." We may have something similar with Bayless.

Here's the comparison of Roy's rookie season to Bayless this year:
http://www.basketball-reference.com...sum=0&p1=bayleje01&y1=2010&p2=roybr01&y2=2007

The two players are shocking when looking at the advanced stats. Yes, "small sample size" is a concern, but I can see where Eric is getting his odd hunch about Bayless from.

What's funny to me is that I've thought for a while that the best player to compliment Brandon Roy in the back court is Brandon Roy. That is, if he were twins, we'd be in a perfect situation. Bayless is starting to look like Roy Lite; he can run all of Roy's plays, and nearly as effectively. He's shorter, but is more tenacious.

He could be as talented as Roy, but simply two years behind Roy in his growth curve. And I think Bayless knows it. Certainly he doesn't lack for confidence in his game. Roy was that way too. So much about them is similar at this point; it's exciting!

 

[LameR]

Of course, Roy's ceiling raised itself every season, as people said "Okay, now Roy has hit his ceiling." We may have something similar with Bayless.

Here's the comparison of Roy's rookie season to Bayless this year:
http://www.basketball-reference.com...sum=0&p1=bayleje01&y1=2010&p2=roybr01&y2=2007

The two players are shocking when looking at the advanced stats. Yes, "small sample size" is a concern, but I can see where Eric is getting his odd hunch about Bayless from.

What's funny to me is that I've thought for a while that the best player to compliment Brandon Roy in the back court is Brandon Roy. That is, if he were twins, we'd be in a perfect situation. Bayless is starting to look like Roy Lite; he can run all of Roy's plays, and nearly as effectively. He's shorter, but is more tenacious.

He could be as talented as Roy, but simply two years behind Roy in his growth curve. And I think Bayless knows it. Certainly he doesn't lack for confidence in his game. Roy was that way too. So much about them is similar at this point; it's exciting!

Assuming health, I think a lineup at the 1,2, and 3 of Bayless-Roy-Batum has enough of pretty much everything we need...ball handling, slashing, shooting, defense, distribution...scary to think about. Get healthy boys!

 

[Nikolokolus]

Compare Bayless' first start to Roy's first start.....

Compare Roy's first 77 games to Jerryd's ...

 

[Nikolokolus]

Of course, Roy's ceiling raised itself every season, as people said "Okay, now Roy has hit his ceiling." We may have something similar with Bayless.

Here's the comparison of Roy's rookie season to Bayless this year:
http://www.basketball-reference.com...sum=0&p1=bayleje01&y1=2010&p2=roybr01&y2=2007

The two players are shocking when looking at the advanced stats. Yes, "small sample size" is a concern, but I can see where Eric is getting his odd hunch about Bayless from.

What's funny to me is that I've thought for a while that the best player to compliment Brandon Roy in the back court is Brandon Roy. That is, if he were twins, we'd be in a perfect situation. Bayless is starting to look like Roy Lite; he can run all of Roy's plays, and nearly as effectively. He's shorter, but is more tenacious.

He could be as talented as Roy, but simply two years behind Roy in his growth curve. And I think Bayless knows it. Certainly he doesn't lack for confidence in his game. Roy was that way too. So much about them is similar at this point; it's exciting!

One or the other is going to need to become the better outside shooter, and one or the other is going to need to differentiate their assist percentage, otherwise it's more like two waveforms cancelling each other out versus amplifying them.

Biggest signs of encouragement that they aren't identical players:
-Bayless is more of an attacker in transition, and has a real defensive intensity to him that is finally starting to translate into production at that end of the court ... his 43% shooting clip from distance in a small sample doesn't hurt either.
-Roy is the master of the midrange game and when he does it, is very very good at catching and shooting off of screens.

It's all going to boil down to this, can they play off of each other rather than have to take turns dominating the ball (sort of like Dre' and Brandon have done this year). If Bayless can keep hitting those long range jumpers and three pointers off the catch and pick his spots when to take the ball and go into attack mode or take it and set the offense, then a Roy-Bayless duo in the backcourt has real potential, but it's going to take a lot of adjustment between the two -- given their respective situations on this team (role, contract, etc.), Bayless is probably going to have to do most of the adjusting.

One thing I've wondered is if Bayless won't eventually assume a Ginobli type role; that is: a player who still logs 30 or so minutes per game, but comes off the bench and handles the ball a lot when the starting play maker is out of the game. and the "starting" point guard won't be somebody who plays a "glue guy's" game, who plays around 20 minutes per game and plays off of Brandon for the most part as an outlet shooter and a defensive specialist.

 

[EGame]

One or the other is going to need to become the better outside shooter, and one or the other is going to need to differentiate their assist percentage, otherwise it's more like two waveforms cancelling each other out versus amplifying them.

Biggest signs of encouragement that they aren't identical players:
-Bayless is more of an attacker in transition, and has a real defensive intensity to him that is finally starting to translate into production at that end of the court ... his 43% shooting clip from distance in a small sample doesn't hurt either.
-Roy is the master of the midrange game and when he does it, is very very good at catching and shooting off of screens.

It's all going to boil down to this, can they play off of each other rather than have to take turns dominating the ball (sort of like Dre' and Brandon have done this year). If Bayless can keep hitting those long range jumpers and three pointers off the catch and pick his spots when to take the ball and go into attack mode or take it and set the offense, then a Roy-Bayless duo in the backcourt has real potential, but it's going to take a lot of adjustment between the two -- given their respective situations on this team (role, contract, etc.), Bayless is probably going to have to do most of the adjusting.

One thing I've wondered is if Bayless won't eventually assume a Ginobli type role; that is: a player who still logs 30 or so minutes per game, but comes off the bench and handles the ball a lot when the starting play maker is out of the game. and the "starting" point guard won't be somebody who plays a "glue guy's" game, who plays around 20 minutes per game and plays off of Brandon for the most part as an outlet shooter and a defensive specialist.

Yes they can. Phoenix. Roy mainly had the ball, but Bayless still scored a lot than what Blake could ever imagine. The end.

 

[DaRizzle]

Compare Roy's first 77 games to Jerryd's ...

No!!!!! Whatever you do dont take a sample size larger than one game!!!

Kingspeed....when are you gonna think this joke of overreacting to everything is gonna be done....Its annoying and doesnt add anything to the board except to people talking shit about you...since you are clueless

Merry Xmas motherfucker

 

[BenDavis503]

Roy, Bayless, Aldridge, Oden, Batum, needs to be the future of this organization barring future injury's.

I agree with this. Bayless NEEDS to stay a big part of this team.

Seriously?

I usually don't agree with most of what Eric says, and he isn't saying anything, he just asked, but I think this is a valid argument!!! Bayless, at his age, has all the potential in the world to be as good if not better than Roy, once he hits that age. Remember guys, Roy is like 5 years older than Bayless. And when Bayless replaced Roy for a night, and played the "Roy Role" he didn't miss a beat.

This is a very valid argument, IMO.

Bayless has now totally proven himself over the course of a season. He isn't quite on the same level as Wade, but on the next rung down, he's at least a top 12 NBA player.

Roy is probably getting worried Bayless will take his all-star spot, I mean besides Kobe there really isn't a better guard in the western conference.

Nice sarcasm, but there are some valid points here, even though you weren't trying to.

No offense dumbest question I've seen posted on here. Really after 2 games your questiong whether he's better than a top x player in league unbelievable.

I really don't think it is unbelievable.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha...........the guy was 10 of 24 last night and you are comparing him to roy who against MIA was 11-15 including 5-5 from 3. good work on asking the dumbest question you've ever asked on here. that took quite a bit cause you've asked some really, really dumb ones.

I really don't think Eric asked as dumb a question as he is getting slammed for. I think this is a valid debate. But you have to factor in age and potential. If not, then there is no discussion. Roy is better, right now.

 

[EGame]

I think it would look a little better if he asked who will be better in their prime? A case can be made for both esepcially if Bayless (which I hope never ever happens, but there is still a shot if Nate jerks him around and not play him much once Roy and Rudy return) leaves town and gets a chance to prove else where. I want him to be a part of our future, but that is up to Nate (or Pritchard perhaps can step in and trade someone like Rudy/Blake to force the issue).

 

[BenDavis503]

Just keep in mind guys, Roy is 4+ years older then Bayless. AND Roy has basically started since he was in the league. Give Bayless that same rope, he would be just as good.

 

[KingSpeed]

Compare Roy's first 77 games to Jerryd's ...

Not fair. Bayless was buried on the bench, only getting spot minutes. Not his fault AT ALL. Roy was handed the starting spot. You have to compare when they started and were given the green light. The San Antonio game was the first time Bayless was ever given that.

 

[KingSpeed]

I agree with this. Bayless NEEDS to stay a big part of this team.



I usually don't agree with most of what Eric says, and he isn't saying anything, he just asked, but I think this is a valid argument!!! Bayless, at his age, has all the potential in the world to be as good if not better than Roy, once he hits that age. Remember guys, Roy is like 5 years older than Bayless. And when Bayless replaced Roy for a night, and played the "Roy Role" he didn't miss a beat..

Exactly. Bayless is much younger and already playing at Roy's level when given the starting spot.

 

[LameR]

Oh kingspeed, you silly goose.