Bayless Proved To Me...

[MARIS61]

He doesn't have to be an all-star to get time, he just has to be better than Blake and Sergio. Since Nate pretty much hates Sergio, I have to think Bayless just hasn't earned it yet.

barfo

For any real PT, he'll have to be better than Rudy or Roy.

 

[Da_O]

That's a myth. And a lousy one at that.

He gets better in practice. If he proves in practice that he is our #3 PG and #3 SG, then why would putting him on the floor to suck and help us lose games the right thing to do?

Also, I've either been at or watched every game. He does a pretty poor job when he plays. So, help me out here- how does that earn him more playing time?

That is not always true. You can't learn certain things and nuances in practice that you can learn in real playing time. I said he shouldn't be taken Sergio's minutes but he should be getting a handful of minutes a game.

He does a pretty poor job when he plays.

When he plays? You mean the 4 minutes every other five games. I'm glad you can assess a player so well, your scouting abilities are remarkable. Sarcasm aside, he does fine, looks like a rookie, experience is what he needs.

 

[MARIS61]

I saw those same flashes with Bayless.

Could be a retinal detachment.

I'd see a doctor if I were you.

 

[Da_O]

For any real PT, he'll have to be better than Rudy or Roy.

Maris, he's a SG in a PG's body, we know, you keep beating a dead horse. They are trying to get him make the transition to PG, it's definitely not impossible to think he can do that.

 

[Natebishop3]

The difference is that the guys ahead of Jerm (Sheed, BGrant) were way better players than Blake and Sergio.

Jermaine was stuck. Bayless isn't - he can earn his way out. He doesn't have to be an all-star to get time, he just has to be better than Blake and Sergio. Since Nate pretty much hates Sergio, I have to think Bayless just hasn't earned it yet.

barfo

You mean like how Sergio earned his way out? If Jarrett Jack was still here, Sergio would be riding pine instead of Bayless. Last season we saw the same theories with Sergio as we're seeing with Bayless. He'd go in, he'd make a few mistakes, and Nate would pull him out. Jermaine O'Neal was the same way. Dunleavy would put him in (mostly because Trader Bob told him to) and then Jermaine would make a couple mistakes and Dunleavy would pull him out. O'Neal would dominate the summer leagues, but every time he'd see actual PT he'd screw up. I remember how much he used to drive me nuts. He'd turn the ball over. He'd commit fouls. He'd take bad shots. Sound familiar?

Regardless of who was playing in front of him, the situation is the same. Nate, in his mind, can't afford to have someone out on the floor who is going through the learning process of the NBA. Last season it was Sergio, this season it's Bayless. We can't bench Blake because he's our best three-point shooter, but Blake is currently filling the role that Bayless should be. He's a scorer who plays alongside Roy. Blake doesn't average many assists. He isn't a very good passer. He just dpesn't make many turnovers. The thing is, Bayless wasn't making a lot of bad passes, but he was doing rookie mistakes like traveling and palming, etc.

The kid needs to get some real pt before we can judge him.

 

[MARIS61]

If Sergio got hit by a bus tonight you'd see Koponnen wearing a Blazers uni before the Allstar break.

If Sergio AND Koponnen both got hit by a bus, Bayless might get some more minutes at PG.

If nothing else has come from his PT it is that Nate has started to see how bad he is at PG and has given him some time at SG. A step in the right direction.

As for deserving more PT, check his stats and get back to me.

He's played in 12 games, averaging 7:05 mins a game. He's got totals of 7-25 (28%FG), 1-3 3(pt), 10-13ft, 11rbs, 10ast, 14to, 3stl, 9pf.

 

[Natebishop3]

If Sergio got hit by a bus tonight you'd see Koponnen wearing a Blazers uni before the Allstar break.

If Sergio AND Koponnen both got hit by a bus, Bayless might get some more minutes at PG.

If nothing else has come from his PT it is that Nate has started to see how bad he is at PG and has given him some time at SG. A step in the right direction.

As for deserving more PT, check his stats and get back to me.

He's played in 12 games, averaging 7:05 mins a game. He's got totals of 7-25 (28%FG), 1-3 3(pt), 10-13ft, 11rbs, 10ast, 14to, 3stl, 9pf.

You and I would have said the same thing about Jermaine O'Neal years ago, and we would have been wrong.

 

[noknobs]

Sorry, in his limited opportunities, Bayless hasn't shown me enough to make me believe that he can run an offense better than Sergio. And Sergio hasn't played poorly enough to deserve to lose his minutes. And I think it would be a mistake, chemistry wise, to make that move right now.

 

[barfo]

You mean like how Sergio earned his way out? If Jarrett Jack was still here, Sergio would be riding pine instead of Bayless.

Sure, and if Sergio gets traded for something other than a PG, then I'd expect Bayless to get some run. But that hasn't happened (yet?).

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

Maris, he's a SG in a PG's body, we know, you keep beating a dead horse. They are trying to get him make the transition to PG, it's definitely not impossible to think he can do that.

Of course it is.

It's the most absurdly ridiculous thing in the world.

Even if it weren't, he is probably the worst player in the league to try it with. He will never reach the level of past failures of this silly experiment like Jarrett Jack, Damon Stoudamire, Allen Iverson...

He has said he's an SG, he has said he wants to play at the SG spot, he has said he wants to be an SG in the NBA.

PG's are born, not transitioned, and it's been tried so many times before unsuccessfully that the rest of the league can only hope and pray that we waste a season or 2 trying it anyway.

If THAT isn't beating a dead horse I don't know what is.

 

[Da_O]

If Sergio got hit by a bus tonight you'd see Koponnen wearing a Blazers uni before the Allstar break.

If Sergio AND Koponnen both got hit by a bus, Bayless might get some more minutes at PG.

If nothing else has come from his PT it is that Nate has started to see how bad he is at PG and has given him some time at SG. A step in the right direction.

As for deserving more PT, check his stats and get back to me.

He's played in 12 games, averaging 7:05 mins a game. He's got totals of 7-25 (28%FG), 1-3 3(pt), 10-13ft, 11rbs, 10ast, 14to, 3stl, 9pf.

If you take away the Boston game and Laker game his minutes per game are 4.8 minutes a game. It's such a small sample size that one game will skew his stats. So those stats don't particular mean anything to me, if anything it shows me he lacks experience.

Bayless is being converted into a PG. That's where he can be most effective for our team, it would make no sense to trade Brandon Rush(another SG) and move up to get Bayless if we we're going to make him a SG. Like NateBishop said Bayless doesn't have to be a pure point guard, just someone who can hit shots and play off of Roy.

You should get rid of any bias of Bayless becoming a PG.

 

[Da_O]

Of course it is.

It's the most absurdly ridiculous thing in the world.

Even if it weren't, he is probably the worst player in the league to try it with. He will never reach the level of past failures of this silly experiment like Jarrett Jack, Damon Stoudamire, Allen Iverson...

He has said he's an SG, he has said he wants to play at the SG spot, he has said he wants to be an SG in the NBA.

PG's are born, not transitioned, and it's been tried so many times before unsuccessfully that the rest of the league can only hope and pray that we waste a season or 2 trying it anyway.

If THAT isn't beating a dead horse I don't know what is.

He's also said that he'd do anything to win, and we're not asking him to be a true PG like Paul, Kidd, or Nash. But a better version of Blake. Which doesn't seem too hard as all Blake does is not turn the ball over and play off of Roy. That's a much simpler task than turning Bayless into a pure point. He has all the tools and is still young enough to learn that much.

 

[noknobs]

He's also said that he'd do anything to win, and we're not asking him to be a true PG like Paul, Kidd, or Nash. But a better version of Blake. Which doesn't seem too hard as all Blake does is not turn the ball over and play off of Roy. That's a much simpler task than turning Bayless into a pure point. He has all the tools and is still young enough to learn that much.

Haha. That's all Blake has been doing?... wow.

 

[Public Defender]

Unfortunately, I think Bayless will get more chances, for the same reason that I think both Channing Frye and Ike Diogu will get more chances - because it's a long season, and someone's going to get hurt. Roy may be out again for the Hornets' game. Even if he comes back soon, I wouldn't be surprised to see Blake, Fernandez, or Rodriguez, get some kind of minor injury - and any of those guys getting hurt, means more minutes for Bayless.

He needs time on the floor, on an NBA team during actual games, to make significant improvements. He needs significant improvements - but the downside to that, is that you don't want to put him on the floor if you have someone who puts you in a better position to win. I like Bayless' game at Arizona, I think he'll be a very good NBA player, but right now, the Blazers have four backcourt players who are better than he is.

That means unless Nate wants to try a three-guard lineup now and then (not necessarily a bad idea), I expect Bayless to stay at the end of the bench most of the time. And while not ideal for Bayless' development, it's probably the best thing for the Blazers.

 

[MARIS61]

If you take away the Boston game and Laker game his minutes per game are 4.8 minutes a game. It's such a small sample size that one game will skew his stats. So those stats don't particular mean anything to me, if anything it shows me he lacks experience.

Bayless is being converted into a PG. That's where he can be most effective for our team, it would make no sense to trade Brandon Rush(another SG) and move up to get Bayless if we we're going to make him a SG. Like NateBishop said Bayless doesn't have to be a pure point guard, just someone who can hit shots and play off of Roy.

You should get rid of any bias of Bayless becoming a PG.

By your reasoning Sergio's stats prove he is the best PG in the history of the NBA. I mean c'mon, he's never had steady PT at the PG spot in 3 years and Nate always has him shoot the 1 second 3/4 court shot at quarter's end to knock down his FG% and has Roy or Blake bring the ball up half the time he's out there...

Sergio should be in the Hall of Fame by your reasoning.

Bayless will not be converted into anything. He's proud of who and what he is and he'll probably end up playing against our SG's while wearing another uni in a few years.

KP didn't get who he wanted in the draft. That was completely obvious. He had no need for Brandon Rush so he traded up for an easier player to trade later and dumped JJ (the main reason for the whole scenario).

You should stop and think long enough to realize he's not the least bit interested in being a PG. He'll fake it to get PT but he'll never be a setup man and neither will Roy for that matter, so playing them together is not the best option we have. They are both me-first shooters, and always will be.

Bayless played 16 minutes against Boston because he's an SG BTW, and Roy (SG) was out. Nate had him at SG later in the game after we almost got blown out with him at PG for a few minutes.

I fully expect Nate to go this way more in the future, but only if Roy or Rudy aren't producing.

The funniest part of this arguement is that Bayless clearly has played better when Sergio is out there playing PG with him. I think they make a nice guard tandem. Nate said he wants to cut Roy's minutes so why not give Bayless the minutes that Roy plays with Sergio? I think that would be the best way to go, and it would take some pressure off Bayless while getting him PT. Sergio will make him a scoring machine.
It all looks bad for Blake's longterm plans. And don't forget Koponnen. And next year's draft.

A lot of fans may see their favorite Blazers traded in the next year or 2, but I say BAKE IT!

 

[cdub503]

By your reasoning Sergio's stats prove he is the best PG in the history of the NBA. I mean c'mon, he's never had steady PT at the PG spot in 3 years and Nate always has him shoot the 1 second 3/4 court shot at quarter's end to knock down his FG% and has Roy or Blake bring the ball up half the time he's out there...

Sergio should be in the Hall of Fame by your reasoning.

Bayless will not be converted into anything. He's proud of who and what he is and he'll probably end up playing against our SG's while wearing another uni in a few years.

KP didn't get who he wanted in the draft. That was completely obvious. He had no need for Brandon Rush so he traded up for an easier player to trade later and dumped JJ (the main reason for the whole scenario).

You should take JB's dick out of your mouth long enough to realize he's not the least bit interested in being a PG. He'll fake it to get PT but he'll never be a setup man and neither will Roy for that matter, so playing them together is retarded. They are both me-first shooters, and always will be.

Bayless played 16 minutes against Boston because he's an SG BTW, and Roy (SG) was out. Nate had him at SG later in the game after we almost got blown out with him at PG for a few minutes.

I fully expect Nate to go this way more in the future, but only if Roy or Rudy aren't producing.

The funniest part of this arguement is that Bayless clearly has played better when Sergio is out there playing PG with him. I think they make a nice guard tandem.

It all looks bad for Blake's longterm plans. And don't forget Koponnen. And next year's draft.

A lot of fans may see their favorite Blazers traded in the next year or 2, but I say BAKE IT!

and you take yours off from sergios

i like sergio but god damn give bayless a chance hes a god damn rookie

 

[MARIS61]

and you take yours off from sergios

i like sergio but god damn give bayless a chance hes a god damn rookie

See my edits.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Bayless was part of that 15-2 run at the end of the 3rd and start of the 4th. (With Greg, Joel, Travis and either Blake/Sergio. Stats looked bad, but I liked what i saw.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Who cares if Bayless is a SG in a PG body, that is what our FRANCHISE player, Brandon Roy wants. He likes the rock in his hands, Bayless likes to score. I am so thankful we have a competent GM who has patience.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Of course it is.

It's the most absurdly ridiculous thing in the world.

Even if it weren't, he is probably the worst player in the league to try it with. He will never reach the level of past failures of this silly experiment like Jarrett Jack, Damon Stoudamire, Allen Iverson...

He has said he's an SG, he has said he wants to play at the SG spot, he has said he wants to be an SG in the NBA.

PG's are born, not transitioned, and it's been tried so many times before unsuccessfully that the rest of the league can only hope and pray that we waste a season or 2 trying it anyway.

If THAT isn't beating a dead horse I don't know what is.

Wow, talk about ridiculous claims and absurdities. Maris, we get it that Sergio is your boy and anything that threatens his position on this team causes you to go into these fits where you slag on the coaches and any teammate that could get his PT (including even Brandon) First things first, Bayless has never called himself a shooting guard, in fact I recall him getting pretty defensive about it when people have suggested he's not a point guard. Secondly, saying that point guards are "born" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Sure certain players might possess certain traits that make them better suited than others, but just because Jerryd isn't a Nash or Kidd clone doesn't mean he's incapable of performing the job of playing defense on one's, hitting open shots, driving the lane and kicking to the open man, or god forbid, even being able to set people up in the offense.

The only "dead horse" I see being beaten around here is the one where you incessantly claim Sergio is the greatest point guard prospect since Bob Cousy.

 

[ABM]

I still think that Bayless could become a Kevin Johnson (scorer and passer) type......and that ain't too bad!

 

[MrJayremmie]

I don't think Bayless deserves time over Sergio. Sergio has done nothing to lose his 10mpg, and Blake has been playing great.

Bayless will get his chance, either after the trade deadline or next year. Whats best for the team is Blake and Sergio in limited time.

He has said he's an SG, he has said he wants to play at the SG spot, he has said he wants to be an SG in the NBA.

Actually, you are incorrect. He said he is a PG and wants to be a PG in the NBA.

 

[drexlersdad]

Bayless needs to become an all star as an explosive combo guard, or he will never compliment sergio in the backcourt. sergio needs to become an mvp or he will never compliment bayless.

sergio+bayless=nash+arenas=whatever

 

[Boob-No-More]

He's a rookie point guard. He's making rookie mistakes.

Unlike Sergio who is a 3rd year point guard who makes rookie mistakes, - and still doesn't play defense and can't make a jump shot.

Bayless is the future. I'm not saying he should get all of Sergio's minutes (if he did, I wouldn't complain), but I agree with Natbishop3's point that he needs consistent PT to develop.

Yeah, he's going to make mistakes and commit turnovers (like Sergio doesn't), but at least he's willing and able to play some tough perimeter defense - something none of our other PGs seem able to do.

BNM

 

[hasoos]

Bayless has a new nick name- Mr. Turnover.

Yeah, let's let this clueless rookie average 12 TO's per game.

Any rookie goes through a period where they adjust to the speed of the game, secondly, even bad players in the NBA never reach the level of turnovers you just mentioned. Most players pull their shit together after the first couple and start taking care of the ball. Do you honestly think Bayless is a clueless rookie? That is pretty harsh, considering the small amount of PT he has got, and considering he was playing against one of the top defensive teams in the league that game who would be smart enough to go after a rookie and make it rough for them.

 

[matt6715]

Bayless certainly seems to deserve some time, wherever he can get it. People seem to forget that he was projected as high as fourth overall in the 2008 draft. He has loads of potential and clearly has a great deal of upside. Im not a Blazers fan particularly but if I were running the team I'd have to find him some PT

 

[MARIS61]

Any rookie goes through a period where they adjust to the speed of the game...

Which is why rookies are given PT in small amounts at first, so they don't look like idiots, lose games and destrot team chemistry.

secondly, even bad players in the NBA never reach the level of turnovers you just mentioned.

Only becuase their coaches are not stupid and limit their playing time.

JJ would clearly have reached that level had he been given enough PT.

Do you honestly think Bayless is a clueless rookie?

Compared to all the other players on our team? Yeah, and it's pretty obvious every time he plays. But he'll learn, and his speed alone will get him PT in certain situations.

Currently, his defense is atrocious, and the whole playing out of position thing is an added pressure he doesn't need right now.

2 months into his rookie season on one of the deepest teams in the league I'd say he's gotten a fair amount of playing time already. On many teams in the league he would not have even played yet.

 

[MARIS61]

Actually, you are incorrect. He said he is a PG and wants to be a PG in the NBA.

Then he's a waffler, because he made that statement the day after draft day, I watched it. It was something like - I'm a shooter and I can score on anyone. That's what I do. But if they want me to play PG I've done that some in college so I can do that too. Whatever.

The way he said it was like I'd rather not but I can do that if I have to.

I guarantee he has NEVER said "I WANT to be a PG in the NBA."

 

[bigbailes]

"sergio doesn't play a lick of defense, bayless plays great defense."

"bayless can't play the point ever and sergio is great at getting his teammates involved."

to me this sums up most posters on here, it is A or B, there can be no gray area. personally i'm a sergio guy, he plays better with the second unit and has improved in all facets, especially his defense which the haters don't want to admit. the big thing i've read over and over on here is that bayless stays in front of his man and contests shots, guess what sergio did that numerous times in the boston game as well. i guess selective memory is great when it comes to message boards.

having said that, bayless will get his minutes, barring injuries though it should not be with the second unit. he runs with the first in practice and that is where he fits. he's a SG in a PG body, he can say all the things he wants to but he's a SG. yes he can pass and he will collect assists but look at his, albeit limited, body of work. when he was a UA they tried the PG role after Nick Wise went down, it was pretty much a failure. he struggled to get his own shot and couldn't create for his teammates. luckily we have a SG who can play like a PG in Roy, i believe JB could be the perfect compliment to Roy in the future, he's going to have to wait his turn though and at least learn some of the nuances of the PG position. i look at it a lot like being a quarterback in the NFL, rarely does a guy come into the league and "get it" right away. most of the good ones spent at least one season on the sidelines watching and learning, that is this year for bayless.

 

[STOMP]

Then he's a waffler, because he made that statement the day after draft day, I watched it. It was something like - I'm a shooter and I can score on anyone. That's what I do. But if they want me to play PG I've done that some in college so I can do that too. Whatever.

The way he said it was like I'd rather not but I can do that if I have to.

I guarantee he has NEVER said "I WANT to be a PG in the NBA."

your guarantee is hot air. I've heard the same sorts of quotes from JB on an interview on The Game right after the draft that Nikolokolus & MrJayremmie sited. Dude views himself as a guard capable of performing all duties of both roles, (loosely quoting) "willing to do whatever the team needs me to do" and "just excited to be part of such a talented young team." I heard him say that the stars are already here and that he'll just be looking to blend in with Roy and the rest. He referred to the Blazers as Brandon's team. When asked questions about his scoring ability, he spoke about that. When asked about running a team, he spoke about that. And so on...

The impression I gathered is that he wants to play. Shocking!

STOMP