BC outgunning KP

[STOMP]

Turk, an unathletic guy is the cornerstone of a SSOL? When did SSOL turn to be "Same Shit, Only Less"?

Turk makes great sense in a half-court pick and roll with a big, bruising center. Who is going to play this role in Toronto? Bargnani?

the guy Colangelo gave their full exception to in 2007, Jason Kapono

this is the same GM who drafted Bargnani over Aldridge and Roy... forgive me for not being jealous

STOMP

 

[andalusian]

the guy Colangelo gave their full exception to in 2007... Jason Kapono

That would be a long-distance-pick-and-roll, since Kapono is with 76ers now...

It's nice to see BC being so creative...

 

[STOMP]

That would be a long-distance-pick-and-roll, since Kapono is with 76ers now...

It's nice to see BC being so creative...

ah...

I sort of recalled something happening with him so before posting my little joke I checked out his nba.com listing... they still have him in Raptor gear.

but thanks for setting things straight

STOMP

 

[RoyToy]

They're making a ton of moves because they're terrible.

 

[LittleAlex]

Though I'm not going to anoint him the next "GM Wonder" because of these initial moves. I want to see what the result of these moves are first.

I didn't say I thought these moves were good over all. I am saying he has a plan and is doing what he can to make it happen.

I think his plan is a real loser to be honest.

 

[LittleAlex]

Turk, an unathletic guy is the cornerstone of a SSOL? When did SSOL turn to be "Same Shit, Only Less"?

Turk makes great sense in a half-court pick and roll with a big, bruising center. Who is going to play this role in Toronto? Bargnani?

He won't be the ball handler on this team, Jose will be. Hedo will be the trailer that hits the three ball.

Frankly, I think Toronto's plan isn't a great one. But at least they have a plan and doing whatever they think they need to do to make it happen.

 

[andalusian]

He won't be the ball handler on this team, Jose will be. Hedo will be the trailer that hits the three ball.

Well, then, in this case they have done wonders to turn Kapono's 24 million dollar salary into Hedo's longer, 50-million one. Especially when Hedo is nowhere near as good a 3-pt shooter as Kapono.

BC for executive of the year. Book it.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

I am disappointed too. I am extremely disappointed in stupid comments like these. From the fans and especially the media. The theory of "build them up so you can tear them down" is live and well regarding KP. The fact that people are actually talking nationally about the "pressure" KP has right now to make a move because of the "failure" to sign a free agent in two weeks shows how absurd we all are. Plus it can only hurt the process by making him do a stupid move. I feel like I am back in high school with all the "who is slapping who" bullshit. It is July 10th and you people are actually acting like a bunch of pussies who have never followed the NBA before by getting upset everytime Jason Quick makes a comment.

Canzano actually asked KP yesterday if he would be conducting business at the summer league games. Are you fucking serious? Its like I have walked in to some alternative world in 1975 where everyone was just becoming a Blazer fan. My god people grow up and look at the whole picture and stop believing everything you read. And if other GM's are making more things happen.........good it's becasue they need to and we are past that. We do need to make a deal, just not as many. Did I say it was July fucking 10th.

Oh I see...."KP will be conducting business at the summer league games!" Forgot about that!

"STupid?"

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Well, then, in this case they have done wonders to turn Kapono's 24 million dollar salary into Hedo's longer, 50-million one. Especially when Hedo is nowhere near as good a 3-pt shooter as Kapono.

BC for executive of the year. Book it.

Joking right?


Turk > Kopano!

 

[andalusian]

Joking right?

Turk > Kopano!

For the purpose of being a 3-point trailer at twice the price?

You might need to lower the level of your sarcasm shield - because some things that should go through... don't.

 

[Boob-No-More]

He won't be the ball handler on this team, Jose will be. Hedo will be the trailer that hits the three ball.

You mean just like Kapono was? Kapono was one of the best 3-point shooters in the history of the NBA, and they couldn't figure out how to use him effectively. If that's Hedo's role, Toronto will be a lot worse than I originally suspected. Hedo has a career 3FG% of 0.385 and shot 0.356 last season. Yes, he can hit the three, but it's not really his strength. By comparison, Kapono has a career 3FG% of 0.454 and shot 0.428 last season. If all they wanted was a 3-point specialist, they would have been better off keeping Kapono (he's also younger and cheaper).

I think they have a much larger role in mind for Hedo. At least, I hope they do. If not, they wasted their $56 million. Hedo's biggest strengths are his unique combination of length and ball handling/passing skills. To not use those skills would be foolish.

Frankly, I think Toronto's plan isn't a great one. But at least they have a plan and doing whatever they think they need to do to make it happen.

Flawless execution of a bad plan can only lead to a bad result. If the plan is to contend, or at least get past the 1st round of the play-offs, their plan is seriously flawed. They were one of the worst rebounding, worst defending teams in the league last season. Plus they had a horrible bench. And it won them 33 games in a very weak conference. Guess what, after all these moves, they are still one of the weakest rebounding, weakest defending teams in the entire league. And, they still have a very weak bench. But hey, at least they have a bigger payroll now. Seriously, they upgraded their offense at the small forward spot, but sacrificed rebounding and defense. Right now, they also have a rookie (Derozan) slotted to start at SG. Derozan has plenty of "upside", but he's not ready to be a starter in the NBA. Here's a list of his weaknesses from his DraftExpress profile:

- Lacks significant offensive polish
- Offensive creativity
- Ability to create own shot
- Advanced ball-handling skills
- Defensive awareness
- Defensive fundamentals
- Average basketball IQ
- Experience
- Not ready to contribute immediately
- Not productive enough
- Older than class peers
- Relatively unproven
- Poor assist/turnover ratio
- 3-point range
- 3-point shooting percentages
- Ability to shoot off the dribble

Does that sound like somebody you want to rely on as your starting SG?

So, if Colangelo's plan was to take one of the worst rebounding, worst defending teams in the league and downgrade both of those areas, while increasing his payroll and adding an inexperienced, unproven rookie to the starting line-up, I'd say he's excetuted it brilliantly.

Seriously, I give him credit for pulling off the 4-team trade that landed Hedo. It was a much better solution than a straight free agent signing (as it preserves their exceptions), but the end result is still a very weak team that is likely to lose their best player next summer. No way in hell would I trade places with a Raptors fan.

BNM

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I didn't say I thought these moves were good over all. I am saying he has a plan and is doing what he can to make it happen.

I think his plan is a real loser to be honest.

Oh, no, I realize that. I was mainly directing my comments to the OP.

 

[Chutney]

You mean just like Kapono was? Kapono was one of the best 3-point shooters in the history of the NBA, and they couldn't figure out how to use him effectively. If that's Hedo's role, Toronto will be a lot worse than I originally suspected. Hedo has a career 3FG% of 0.385 and shot 0.356 last season. Yes, he can hit the three, but it's not really his strength. By comparison, Kapono has a career 3FG% of 0.454 and shot 0.428 last season. If all they wanted was a 3-point specialist, they would have been better off keeping Kapono (he's also younger and cheaper).

I think they have a much larger role in mind for Hedo. At least, I hope they do. If not, they wasted their $56 million. Hedo's biggest strengths are his unique combination of length and ball handling/passing skills. To not use those skills would be foolish.

The team has had enough 3 pt. shooting over the years (even with Parker and Kapono gone, Bargnani and Calderon still provide enough 3's). What we needed at the 3-spot and what Hedo will be expected to do is create his own shot and draw defenders away from Bosh. He'll also have the opportunity to handle the ball every now and then. This offense will be heavily reliant on the pick-and-roll (which is ironic, because that was a staple of Sam Mitchell's offensive philosophy).

Also, DeMar DeRozan probably won't be starting for this team. I expect him to play significant minutes off the bench, but no one in the organization has talked about him as a possible starter. That was basically a fan idea that gained momentum after the Hedo agreement but before the Marion trade that gave us more spending money. If I had to make a prediction I'd say Delfino will be our starting 2-guard on the season opener, but it's hard to say until Colangelo uses his exceptions.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Oh I see...."KP will be conducting business at the summer league games!" Forgot about that!

"STupid?"

Anybody who has been to one would know. Half the GM's in the league huddled in one little area????

 

[LittleAlex]

Stuff
BNM

I don't want to be put in the position to defend Toronto's moves. I think they are uniformly bad.

All I meant to say was that Toronto has some sort of plan and they appear to be enacting that plan.

I will go on record as saying the plan itself is garbage.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

I don't want to be put in the position to defend Toronto's moves. I think they are uniformly bad.

All I meant to say was that Toronto has some sort of plan and they appear to be enacting that plan.

I will go on record as saying the plan itself is garbage.

Trying to turn lemons...into lemonade - > Having oranges and not knowing how to make orange juice!

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

BC's turning lemons into lemonade!

I tell ya, he's outgunning KP!


Add Jack and he's actually made serious improvements from the team they put on the court last year! And he's rid the team of Marion.

What to watch: If BOSH actually signs an extension this summer - rather than waiting to become a F/A at the end of the season - then BC DOES INDEED outgun KP!



In order for KP to win the GM duel:

Wind up with rights to RUBIO and Gerald Wallace in a Blazer uniform.

Sign ROY and LMA to extensions by August 1st

THEN, KP wins! and so does the Blazers!

 

[barfo]

In order for KP to win the GM duel:

...Blazers record is better than Toronto.

barfo

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

...Blazers record is better than Toronto.

barfo

They haven't played any games yet!

(since the moves)


...and I'm not saying Raptors are better than Portland - what I'm saying is that BC is (by far) outgunning KP as a GM thus far.

He's vastly improved the Raptors - - and as a result, has BOSH happy about what is going on.

I wonder if Roy is happy right now?

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

PS:

Tyring not to be a homer for a moment;


Calderon > Blake

Jack < Roy

Turk > Batum

Bosh > LMA (toss-up perhaps, but Bosh would get the nod if you took a league-wide vote)

Bargnani > Pryz (toss-up perhaps, but Barg's is young and can score)


Raptors Bench < Blazer Bench (fair enough)

 

[barfo]

They haven't played any games yet!

(since the moves)

Yeah, I meant once they do, that will be the evidence.

I wonder if Roy is happy right now?

Roy is near suicidal. With a contract offer of only $70 million instead of $80 million, and with the blazers trying to improve the team via free agency, he's got to be completely miserable.

barfo

 

[barfo]

PS:

Tyring not to be a homer for a moment;


Calderon > Blake

Jack < Roy

Turk > Batum

Bosh > LMA (toss-up perhaps, but Bosh would get the nod if you took a league-wide vote)

Bargnani > Pryz (toss-up perhaps, but Barg's is young and can score)

Maybe we'll play that Oden guy instead of Pryz?

barfo

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Yeah, I meant once they do, that will be the evidence.



Roy is near suicidal. With a contract offer of only $70 million instead of $80 million, and with the blazers trying to improve the team via free agency, he's got to be completely miserable.

barfo

Of course - like Patrick Ewing said - "We make lots of money, but we spend lots of money."

But honestly, I think the Blazers better hurry along and get Roy locked up for his entire career. Take your time with (and/or be prudent) with LMA. But Roy is the best thing to have happened to this franchise - the BEST. Bar no other player. Sure, there are former Blazers that have their jerseys hanging from the rafters, but no other player has meant so much to the franchise. Just look at the turnaround in team profitability over the past two years. Look at the resurgence of Blazermania. We all know this - so the brass should simply recognize Roy's impact, his great character, etc. etc. etc. etc. and set an example by giving him everything and anything he wants. Roy should have been signed to a long term extension already!


To stay on point to the thread: BC signed Bargnani to an extension hours after it was a possibility! BC outgunning KP.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Add Jack and he's actually made serious improvements from the team they put on the court last year!

He has improved the team's offense, but not addressed their HUGE weaknesses - rebounding and defense (and the bench), which are the reasons they only won 33 games last season. He hasn't landed Jack yet, but if he does, they end up with an extremely weak rebounding starting unit that is very turnover prone and weak defensively. Sure they can score, but they can't defend and can't rebound. If anything, the are WORSE in those two areas. And, they still have one of the weakest benches in the league.

And he's rid the team of Marion.

And his 8.3 RPG and their best defender. Hedo is an upgrade offensively over Marion, but he is a much worse rebounder and is only effective defensively when he has an intimidating big man behind him to cover up his mistakes.

In order for KP to win the GM duel:

This isn't some contest to see who can make the most moves. The best GM is the one whose team has the most success on the court. I'll put my money on the Blazers. Toronto may win a few more games during the regular season than the 33 they won last year, but they will still struggle to be a 0.500 team (due to poor defense and weak rebounding) and make the play-offs in the weak Eastern Conference (where it usually only takes 36 - 39 wins to get the 8th seed). If they do make the play-offs, I give them 0% chance of making it past the 1st round. Defense and rebounding wins basketball games, especially in the play-offs. Toronto was already one of the worst rebounding, worst defending teams in the league - and Colangelo's of season moves have made them WORSE in both of those areas. They'll be able to score enough to have modest success during the regular season (at, or near 0.500), but they aren't good enough offensively to overcome their other glaring weaknesses (rebounding and defense) in the play-offs. The team Colangelo has assembled simply is ill-suited to post season success.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Calderon > Blake

Agreed, Calderon is better over all, but he's even worse defensively than Blake. So, that negates some of his advantage on the offensive end. Still, advantage Toronto.

Jack < Roy

They don't have Jack yet, but if they did it would be Jack <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Roy. This one is a HUGE advantage for Portland in every conceivable way. Roy does EVERYTHING MUCH better than Jack. It's not even close. MASSIVE advantage Portland

Turk > Batum

Agreed (for now), but again Batum is better defensively, so that negates some of Hedo's advantage offensively. Advantage Toronto.

Bosh > LMA (toss-up perhaps, but Bosh would get the nod if you took a league-wide vote)

Very close, I suspect if LaMarcus was our number one option on offense and played on a team with no other decent rebounders, his numbers would be very similar to Bosh's - perhaps even better. I'd call this one a tie, but am willing to concede a very slight advantage to Toronto.

Bargnani > Pryz (toss-up perhaps, but Barg's is young and can score)

Yes, Bargnani can score, but he is a HORRIBLE rebounder and a weak defender. Whether we start Joel or Oden, Portland has a HUGE advantage at starting center in rebounding and defense - the things that win basketball games and are highly coveted in big men. Bargnani is the worst rebounding starting 7-footer since Brad Sellers. I give the Blazers a big advantage at center - both stating and back-up.

Raptors Bench < Blazer Bench (fair enough)

Again, that should be Raptors Bench <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Blazer Bench. Again, not even close. Our back up SG and back-up C would both be starting in Toronto, and that doesn't even include our leading scorer off the bench.

So, while Toronto "wins" 3 of the 5 starting spots, you need to look at the big picture. You could had said the same thing about last year's Toronto squad - that won 33 games in the weak Eastern Conference. You need to look at the big picture. The two spots Portland "wins" they win by HUGE margins. They also "win" the bench by a HUGE margin. More importantly, you need to look at both teams' strengths and weaknesses. As a team, last season Toronto was a weak rebounding team with poor defense and no bench. How has that changed? They traded their 2nd best rebounder and best defender for a guy who is better offensively, but a downgrade on defense and rebounding. They currently don't have anyone on their roster that is even close to being a starting caliber NBA SG - and their bench is still one of the weakest in the league. Sure Colangelo has made a ton of moves, but none of them have addressed their three biggest needs - rebounding, defense and the bench.

I'll gladly take our roster over their any day of the week - and it's not even close. So, in spite of not making any big off season moves: advantage KP.

BNM

 

[Blaze01]

PS:

Tyring not to be a homer for a moment;


Calderon > Blake

Jack < Roy

Turk > Batum

Bosh > LMA (toss-up perhaps, but Bosh would get the nod if you took a league-wide vote)

Bargnani > Pryz (toss-up perhaps, but Barg's is young and can score)


Raptors Bench < Blazer Bench (fair enough)

I'd love to take bets with you on which team ends up with a better record this year...I mean, since TOR lineup is so superior to POR, and since the eastern conference is far weaker top to bottom than the western conference is, this really should be a no brainer on your part, right?

 

[southnc]

What's with Toronto - do they have it in for Portland for some reason?

Wasn't this the same (and only) organization who would not vote for ROY as rookie of the year his first season?

 

[BigVolcano]

They don't have Jack yet, but if they did it would be Jack <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Roy. This one is a HUGE advantage for Portland in every conceivable way. Roy does EVERYTHING MUCH better than Jack. It's not even close. MASSIVE advantage Portland

Jack will not be our starting sg. most likely backing up calderon.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

He has improved the team's offense, but not addressed their HUGE weaknesses - rebounding and defense (and the bench), which are the reasons they only won 33 games last season. He hasn't landed Jack yet, but if he does, they end up with an extremely weak rebounding starting unit that is very turnover prone and weak defensively. Sure they can score, but they can't defend and can't rebound. If anything, the are WORSE in those two areas. And, they still have one of the weakest benches in the league.



And his 8.3 RPG and their best defender. Hedo is an upgrade offensively over Marion, but he is a much worse rebounder and is only effective defensively when he has an intimidating big man behind him to cover up his mistakes.



This isn't some contest to see who can make the most moves. The best GM is the one whose team has the most success on the court. I'll put my money on the Blazers. Toronto may win a few more games during the regular season than the 33 they won last year, but they will still struggle to be a 0.500 team (due to poor defense and weak rebounding) and make the play-offs in the weak Eastern Conference (where it usually only takes 36 - 39 wins to get the 8th seed). If they do make the play-offs, I give them 0% chance of making it past the 1st round. Defense and rebounding wins basketball games, especially in the play-offs. Toronto was already one of the worst rebounding, worst defending teams in the league - and Colangelo's of season moves have made them WORSE in both of those areas. They'll be able to score enough to have modest success during the regular season (at, or near 0.500), but they aren't good enough offensively to overcome their other glaring weaknesses (rebounding and defense) in the play-offs. The team Colangelo has assembled simply is ill-suited to post season success.

BNM

NO CONTEST between TEAMS:


But if KP refuses to treat ROY and LMA with the same respect BC afforded Bargnani.....

If KP sits on his hands, waiting for the "cake to bake".......

Then I remain steadfast in claiming BC has clearly outgunned KP! Hands down.


I'm rooting for KP!

 

[Boob-No-More]

Jack will not be our starting sg. most likely backing up calderon.

So, who is? Jack is currently a better starting SG than anyone on your roster - and he's below average.

BNM