Politics Being a F***ed Up Hate Crime-r isn't cut-and-dried

[BrianFromWA]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/31/...KT8iHFpHF39U7LxJJjDcfuLEzbyTJinpuPRPapJyT1qgY

New York has become an increasingly unsettling place to be Jewish. The first inkling of this emerged several days after the 2016 presidential election when swastikas and the phrase “Go Trump” showed up on playground equipment in Adam Yauch Park in Brooklyn Heights.

But, as always, there's more to the story...

Contrary to what are surely the prevailing assumptions, anti-Semitic incidents have constituted half of all hate crimes in New York this year, according to the Police Department. To put that figure in context, there have been four times as many crimes motivated by bias against Jews — 142 in all — as there have against blacks. Hate crimes against Jews have outnumbered hate crimes targeted at transgender people by a factor of 20.

Within the course of a few days this month, a swastika showed up on an Upper West Side corner and two ultra-Orthodox men were attacked on the street in Hasidic neighborhoods in Brooklyn in separate incidents. In one of them, according to the police and prosecutors, a Muslim livery driver jumped out of a car and started beating up his victim, seemingly at random, yelling “Allah.” (Just this week, more swastikas appeared in advance of Halloween on Garden Place, a popular trick-or-treating spot in Brooklyn Heights.)

Those damn neo-Nazis. Wait, what?

If anti-Semitism bypasses consideration as a serious problem in New York, it is to some extent because it refuses to conform to an easy narrative with a single ideological enemy. During the past 22 months, not one person caught or identified as the aggressor in an anti-Semitic hate crime has been associated with a far right-wing group, Mark Molinari, commanding officer of the police department’s Hate Crimes Task Force, told me.
“I almost wish it was sometimes more clear cut,’’ he said. “It’s every identity targeting every identity.”

This is why I (and, I imagine, people like me) hate the partisanship going on. Sure, condemn a bunch of clowns in khakis and tiki torches. There's some very fine people there (I notice that no one brings up the "on both sides" portion that means he also thinks some of the antifa thugs are alright as well...that's as far as I'll go about the C-in-C). But it's not that one race or fringe political group is causing problems--as we've seen in the "white wimmin callin the cops" threads, people who think their damn feelings--generally ignorant and messed-up ones, at that-- are more important than fairness and justice in our society are causing the bulk of these problems. And that's not a political statement. The commander of the NYPD hate crimes division says that it's not alt-right Anti-Semites doing all this. Who, then, could it be? Honestly, doesn't matter to me. If they can be rounded up and prosecuted, great. But even if they can't, getting more of you to start to invoke the dialogue that it's not about racism or misogynism or anti-semitism or jihadi-ism or whatever, but that you're a citizen of a society that did just fine without you, there will be benefit from it. Not one of you can credibly state that Maxine Waters and Cory Booker are somehow less guilty of this than Trey Gowdy or Mitch McConnell. Not one can credibly say that Soros paying people off (politicians and protesters and caravan-riders) for his own worldview's gain is better for our country than Bannon's/Bolton's isolationist tweeting and policy-defining.

/soapbox

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

More soapbox please.

Breath of fresh air amongst all the Huffpost articles regurgitated here

 

[oldmangrouch]

The devil in the details.

Supposedly, none of these perps have been associated with "far right wing groups." This is not the same as claiming they don't hold far right beliefs. All this report tells us is that the perps have adopted the jihadist tactic of having widely dispersed, lone wolf operatives.

Sorry, but this is not a distinction that impresses me. If a terrorist holds neo-nazi beliefs, the inability to tie him to a specific group does not somehow make his personal beliefs just disappear.

 

[barfo]

Also, just because there are other bad people in the world, does not actually make Nazis any better.

Also, Heather Heyer was not antifa.

barfo

 

[oldmangrouch]

*edited

Israel isn't being shellacked with missiles from Joey Gibson's Brat Pack.

Are we calling them alt-right or far-right? Are the Palestinians Neo-Nazis?

They are most certainly not Trump supporters.

So, Arabs and Persians (Iranians and Iraqis) are now black? Where do you get this nonsense? Of course, I'm not clear why events on the other side of the globe are even relevant here.

And BTW, you need to read up on history. Non-aryan jihadists were not only welcome in the German army during WWII, they were also allowed to serve in the SS. The Palestinians may not be Nazis, but they have been allied with the Nazi movement since the 1930s.

In closing, let me say that nothing you said has any relevance to my comment, and is nothing more than a clumsy attempt to derail the conversation. Welcome to my very short ignore list. I don't know why you have completely gone off the rails, but life is too short to deal with people who get their talking points from Infowars.

 

[MARIS61]

So, Arabs and Persians (Iranians and Iraqis) are now black? Where do you get this nonsense? Of course, I'm not clear why events on the other side of the globe are even relevant here.

And BTW, you need to read up on history. Non-aryan jihadists were not only welcome in the German army during WWII, they were also allowed to serve in the SS. The Palestinians may not be Nazis, but they have been allied with the Nazi movement since the 1930s.

In closing, let me say that nothing you said has any relevance to my comment, and is nothing more than a clumsy attempt to derail the conversation. Welcome to my very short ignore list. I don't know why you have completely gone off the rails, but life is too short to deal with people who get their talking points from Infowars.

Quit bobbing and weaving.

You were pushing a false narrative and I called you on it.

 

[dviss1]

I swear, the amount of support and cover y'all give racists is the reason for the problems in this country.

From your racist president on down...

 

[dviss1]

And you MFs can't have it both ways.

You can't claim ANY NY Times story when your racist president calls them fake news...

 

[dviss1]

I don't know why you have completely gone off the rails, but life is too short to deal with people who get their talking points from Infowars.

Really? His president has emboldened him. *edited*

It's what Trumpets do.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Really? His president has emboldened him. *edited*

It's what Trumpets do.

Your fear is unbelievable.

This might be the worst personal attack I've seen on this forum. Shame on you.

 

[dviss1]

Your fear is unbelievable.

This might be the worst personal attack I've seen on this forum. Shame on you.

Trumpets are shooting up synagogues and sending mail bombs. They killed a 97 year old...

Then y'all talk about liberals...

Conservative white men get bump stocks and kill 59 people. Stop your people from doing so this Charlottesville type of hate killing. Your president is basically calling for violence.

 

[dviss1]

Your fear is unbelievable.

This might be the worst personal attack I've seen on this forum. Shame on you.

I don't think what I said was an attack. Go ahead and sound the trumpets tho..

 

[Cippy91]

Trumpets are shooting up synagogues and sending mail bombs.

Then y'all talk about liberals...

Conservative white men get bump stocks and kill 59 people. Stop your people from doing so this Charlottesville type of hate killing. Your president is basically calling for violence.

You are the king of generalization. Every time it’s “y’all white folk”. “Y’all president”. I still have yet to see anybody defend racism on this forum and it’s been years and yet you continue this battle against nobody here because guess what? Nobody here is or has supported racism.

 

[Cippy91]

These conversations have gotten so dumb I don’t even participate. All I know is that people now determine what hate crimes are and considering we live in outrage culture, every damn thing is a hate crime or racially motivated, etc. nothing is dealt with logic anymore. It’s all about feelings.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I don't think what I said was an attack. Go ahead and sound the trumpets tho..

Yes, saying that you fully expect a particular poster to commit murder is a personal attack. That is being removed.

 

[Spud147]

Trumpets are shooting up synagogues and sending mail bombs. They killed a 97 year old...

Then y'all talk about liberals...

Conservative white men get bump stocks and kill 59 people. Stop your people from doing so this Charlottesville type of hate killing. Your president is basically calling for violence.

Missed in all that chaos is this guy... who tried to go shoot up a historically black church but was turned away so he just settled for murdering 2 people next door for the crime of grocery shopping while African American.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/gregory-bush/

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Hands Brian another soap box

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/31/...KT8iHFpHF39U7LxJJjDcfuLEzbyTJinpuPRPapJyT1qgY



But, as always, there's more to the story...

Those damn neo-Nazis. Wait, what?



This is why I (and, I imagine, people like me) hate the partisanship going on. Sure, condemn a bunch of clowns in khakis and tiki torches. There's some very fine people there (I notice that no one brings up the "on both sides" portion that means he also thinks some of the antifa thugs are alright as well...that's as far as I'll go about the C-in-C). But it's not that one race or fringe political group is causing problems--as we've seen in the "white wimmin callin the cops" threads, people who think their damn feelings--generally ignorant and messed-up ones, at that-- are more important than fairness and justice in our society are causing the bulk of these problems. And that's not a political statement. The commander of the NYPD hate crimes division says that it's not alt-right Anti-Semites doing all this. Who, then, could it be? Honestly, doesn't matter to me. If they can be rounded up and prosecuted, great. But even if they can't, getting more of you to start to invoke the dialogue that it's not about racism or misogynism or anti-semitism or jihadi-ism or whatever, but that you're a citizen of a society that did just fine without you, there will be benefit from it. Not one of you can credibly state that Maxine Waters and Cory Booker are somehow less guilty of this than Trey Gowdy or Mitch McConnell. Not one can credibly say that Soros paying people off (politicians and protesters and caravan-riders) for his own worldview's gain is better for our country than Bannon's/Bolton's isolationist tweeting and policy-defining.

/soapbox

 

[dviss1]

Missed in all that chaos is this guy... who tried to go shoot up a historically black church but was turned away so he just settled for murdering 2 people next door for the crime of grocery shopping while African American.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/gregory-bush/

Isn't a domestic violence conviction reason to ban gun ownership?? How was this NUT able to acquire a firearm?

 

[dviss1]

Comparing Maxine Waters and Cory Booker to the wholly owned subsidiary that is Mitch McConnell is disingenuous at best...

 

[Hoopguru]

The devil in the details.

Supposedly, none of these perps have been associated with "far right wing groups." This is not the same as claiming they don't hold far right beliefs. All this report tells us is that the perps have adopted the jihadist tactic of having widely dispersed, lone wolf operatives.

Sorry, but this is not a distinction that impresses me. If a terrorist holds neo-nazi beliefs, the inability to tie him to a specific group does not somehow make his personal beliefs just disappear.

seems to me there are a number of organization that hate on Jews, and none of the are justified by their bigotry.
White supremest and Nation of Islam both hold profound anti semantic beliefs.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Here is what I think is a giant problem, racists feel they have found a home in the republican party. That is a fact. They have publicly endorsed and campaigned for republican candidates. As a republican this bothers the fuck out of me. I don't care if the dems have antifa. Actually I expect dems to have some fucked up people supporting them. But that doesn't mean I give fucktards in the party I support a pass.

There are no other areas in our lives where we accept this.

If someone comes up to you and tells you that the pastor of your church has stolen all the collection money and used it to buy meth, your first response isn't to say, "Catholic priests rape little boys" and then do nothing.

If your wife comes up to you and says your kid was arrested for shoplifting a candy bar you don't tell her that the neighbor's kid stole a car and then do nothing.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/gop...ht-race-due-to-white-supremacist-support.html

 

[Lanny]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/31/...KT8iHFpHF39U7LxJJjDcfuLEzbyTJinpuPRPapJyT1qgY



But, as always, there's more to the story...

Those damn neo-Nazis. Wait, what?



This is why I (and, I imagine, people like me) hate the partisanship going on. Sure, condemn a bunch of clowns in khakis and tiki torches. There's some very fine people there (I notice that no one brings up the "on both sides" portion that means he also thinks some of the antifa thugs are alright as well...that's as far as I'll go about the C-in-C). But it's not that one race or fringe political group is causing problems--as we've seen in the "white wimmin callin the cops" threads, people who think their damn feelings--generally ignorant and messed-up ones, at that-- are more important than fairness and justice in our society are causing the bulk of these problems. And that's not a political statement. The commander of the NYPD hate crimes division says that it's not alt-right Anti-Semites doing all this. Who, then, could it be? Honestly, doesn't matter to me. If they can be rounded up and prosecuted, great. But even if they can't, getting more of you to start to invoke the dialogue that it's not about racism or misogynism or anti-semitism or jihadi-ism or whatever, but that you're a citizen of a society that did just fine without you, there will be benefit from it. Not one of you can credibly state that Maxine Waters and Cory Booker are somehow less guilty of this than Trey Gowdy or Mitch McConnell. Not one can credibly say that Soros paying people off (politicians and protesters and caravan-riders) for his own worldview's gain is better for our country than Bannon's/Bolton's isolationist tweeting and policy-defining.

/soapbox

This is in Liberal NYC. Imagine what it's like in Idaho.

 

[Lanny]

Here is what I think is a giant problem, racists feel they have found a home in the republican party. That is a fact. They have publicly endorsed and campaigned for republican candidates. As a republican this bothers the fuck out of me. I don't care if the dems have antifa. Actually I expect dems to have some fucked up people supporting them. But that doesn't mean I give fucktards in the party I support a pass.

There are no other areas in our lives where we accept this.

If someone comes up to you and tells you that the pastor of your church has stolen all the collection money and used it to buy meth, your first response isn't to say, "Catholic priests rape little boys" and then do nothing.

If your wife comes up to you and says your kid was arrested for shoplifting a candy bar you don't tell her that the neighbor's kid stole a car and then do nothing.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/gop...ht-race-due-to-white-supremacist-support.html

When I was five, a little neighbor boy talked me into stealing a candy bar. Well, first my mother found out and spanked me, then she told me that when my father got home she was gonna tell him. This scared the bejesus out of me 'cause my dad was from Alabama and I knew what was coming. When my father got home and learned what happened he pulled my pants down and went at me with his belt. To his credit, a few years later he apologized for that and said he now believed that striking a child was both wrong morally and counterproductive. Perhaps that is the major reason why for the rest of my life, I've believed that striking a child was wrong wrong wrong. The moral to the story, don't steal candy.

Can you believe that for years and years afterwards my father must have agonized over that belt incident. My hat is off to him.

Sorry, your candy bar story got me off and on to that tangent.

 

[Spud147]

Here is what I think is a giant problem, racists feel they have found a home in the republican party. That is a fact. They have publicly endorsed and campaigned for republican candidates. As a republican this bothers the fuck out of me. I don't care if the dems have antifa. Actually I expect dems to have some fucked up people supporting them. But that doesn't mean I give fucktards in the party I support a pass.

There are no other areas in our lives where we accept this.

If someone comes up to you and tells you that the pastor of your church has stolen all the collection money and used it to buy meth, your first response isn't to say, "Catholic priests rape little boys" and then do nothing.

If your wife comes up to you and says your kid was arrested for shoplifting a candy bar you don't tell her that the neighbor's kid stole a car and then do nothing.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/gop-fund-wont-help-steve-king-in-tight-race-due-to-white-supremacist-support.html

See this is where I struggle as a registered Independent. I don't get behind everything the Dems do and I didn't vote for Hillary, but I don't care what the economy does (and, BTW, I haven't seen an increase in my pay), I absolutely cannot support a party that will nominate and elect a person who believes there are good people on both sides when talking about Neo-Nazis. It's a 1000% deal breaker.

 

[Spud147]

Isn't a domestic violence conviction reason to ban gun ownership?? How was this NUT able to acquire a firearm?

Well that seems reasonable doesn't it...

but see if you put any kind of limitations on the domestic violence nut jobs that won't even get the guns out of the criminals hands and if you knew anything about guns you'd know that bumps stocks aren't the problem either so we should just do nothing. At least I think that's how the 2nd Amendment argument goes.

 

[Cippy91]

Yes, saying that you fully expect a particular poster to commit murder is a personal attack. That is being removed.

Is this new? It wasn’t enforced months back when dviss said he was scared to go to a forum event I would ever be at due to the fact i own a gun and it was implied I would do such a thing. But hey, it is what it is

 

[Cippy91]

Here is what I think is a giant problem, racists feel they have found a home in the republican party. That is a fact. They have publicly endorsed and campaigned for republican candidates. As a republican this bothers the fuck out of me. I don't care if the dems have antifa. Actually I expect dems to have some fucked up people supporting them. But that doesn't mean I give fucktards in the party I support a pass.

There are no other areas in our lives where we accept this.

If someone comes up to you and tells you that the pastor of your church has stolen all the collection money and used it to buy meth, your first response isn't to say, "Catholic priests rape little boys" and then do nothing.

If your wife comes up to you and says your kid was arrested for shoplifting a candy bar you don't tell her that the neighbor's kid stole a car and then do nothing.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/gop...ht-race-due-to-white-supremacist-support.html

I think racists are just more obvious on the right, where as on the left, it’s hidden behind this ideology people have gotten behind as shown when don Lemon can say on tv what he said about white people and nobody gives a shit.

 

[Lanny]

I think racists are just more obvious on the right, where as on the left, it’s hidden behind this ideology people have gotten behind as shown when don Lemon can say on tv what he said about white people and nobody gives a shit.

Let me assure you that racists tend to support the Right and that's for a reason.
Both the Left and the Right have drifted. If you know about the deep South you'll see that the Democrats there are all Republicans now. I will give you this, Atlanta is now a lot more socially Liberal than the rural areas. I remember seeing a black man walk hand in hand with a white woman in a grocery store in 1965 Atlanta, something you'd never see in the more rural areas in that day.

My dad was a bricklayer at that time. I remember he hired a team of bricklayers and hod carriers from a more rural area of Georgia, Rome. Some of these guys were volunteer firefighters. They would brag about how whenever the house of a newly arrived African-American family would move in, their house would mysteriously catch fire at night. They would delay their arrival to put out the fire until the house was hopelessly in flames. This is how the deep South was even in the mid 60s. These guys all quit the Democrats and joined the Republicans. Do you ever wonder why?

 

[dviss1]

"I'm not calling Mr. Desantis a racist, I'm simply saying the racists believe he's a racist."

- Andrew Gillum

 

[Further]

There are a lot of conservative views which have a lot of merit and conservatives who are not racist. But as long as conservatives, republicans and MAGA folk turn a blind eye, make excuses and continue to support these racist politicians the problem will continue to worsen and conservatives will be turned into the party for racists.

You have to say enough!

Even if every example you can come up with an excuse, be more intelligent then that. Realize it’s s fucking pattern that’s marring the actual positive attributes of conservatism.

I am honestly disturbed by some of the support I see and willingness to make excuses for blatent racism. It’s disgusting. It’s damaging to my safety, to the safety of many minorities and in the end it’s actually going to damage conservatism.