Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckson..

[Hobbesarable]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

I don't think the "young talent" is as important as veteran size. If we got back a player in the late 20's that can rebound, defend and set good picks; we would be in good shape.

Shouldn't that be LaMarcus?

 

[Shooter]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

Because in about 40 games he will be someone else's best inside scorer and rebounder . . .

Not if we re-sign him, which we should. The guy is a beast, and just what we need. This recent winning streak is proof of that.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

so going back to the other thread, if you're planning on keeping him past this summer for whatever he'll sign for, then don't trade him. But you realize that best-case scenario you have 6M other dollars to spend this summer? And that's if we don't have a draft pick. JJ de facto becomes our "max free agent signing", b/c after his cap hold the only people we can sign are below the MLE. And barring big trades of LMA or Nic, that's the last time we'll have more than the MLE until LMA's contract expires.

 

[RR7]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

so going back to the other thread, if you're planning on keeping him past this summer for whatever he'll sign for, then don't trade him. But you realize that best-case scenario you have 6M other dollars to spend this summer? And that's if we don't have a draft pick. JJ de facto becomes our "max free agent signing", b/c after his cap hold the only people we can sign are below the MLE. And barring big trades of LMA or Nic, that's the last time we'll have more than the MLE until LMA's contract expires.

why I've been advocating for either trading him, if the right deal comes along, or, making a trade using our expiring contracts to try to find one of the holes we'd need to find, to a team looking to have cap space next year. With his cap hold close to 8, we have roughly MLE to use. So why not fill that cap space now, and then still have MLE to use. 2 for the price of one in a sense.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

that makes sense, except that they may be targeting someone (Redick? Evans? ??) who will command somewhere between the MLE and our cap threshold (12M-14M). If that's the case, you can't (for example) trade Babbitt, Hickson and Sasha for (just for grins and giggles) Brook Lopez's 13M contract and still have anything other than MLE this summer. Whereas if you just let everyone expire, you can either trade for that 12-14M player for a trade exception and a 2nd-rounder, or sign a FA to that contract outright, or break it up and sign a few players. If you trade for (say) Lopez right now, you give up that flexibility.

I'm not saying one or the other is better, but the reasons for keeping JJ past the trade deadline are few.

 

[RR7]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

that makes sense, except that they may be targeting someone (Redick? Evans? ??) who will command somewhere between the MLE and our cap threshold (12M-14M). If that's the case, you can't (for example) trade Babbitt, Hickson and Sasha for (just for grins and giggles) Brook Lopez's 13M contract and still have anything other than MLE this summer. Whereas if you just let everyone expire, you can either trade for that 12-14M player for a trade exception and a 2nd-rounder, or sign a FA to that contract outright, or break it up and sign a few players. If you trade for (say) Lopez right now, you give up that flexibility.

I'm not saying one or the other is better, but the reasons for keeping JJ past the trade deadline are few.

right, sorry, I meant if you plan to keep him around past this season.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

I have been talking about moving Hickson and signing one player for big money this summer for a while. But as I think about it, the bench is so thin, this team needs more than just one more player. The idea of keeping Hickson and signing the best player you can for 6M is starting to sound more appealing. You add the best three or four off the bench this year and you start developing a team that has a solid starting 5 and a bench that can be counted on.

The trick is finding that gem for 6 million that will be an ideal 6th man or turn Hickson into a 6th man.

 

[Hobbesarable]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

I have been talking about moving Hickson and signing one player for big money this summer for a while. But as I think about it, the bench is so thin, this team needs more than just one more player. The idea of keeping Hickson and signing the best player you can for 6M is starting to sound more appealing. You add the best three or four off the bench this year and you start developing a team that has a solid starting 5 and a bench that can be counted on.

The trick is finding that gem for 6 million that will be an ideal 6th man or turn Hickson into a 6th man.

I've mentioned this possibility before. Go after Jarrett Jack as a combo 1/2 bench player. That would keep Matthews in the starting lineup with Lillard and we would have a strong veteran presence coming off the bench as a 6th man.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

So you'd go forward with Lillard/Wes/Nic/LMA/Hickson (or Leonard) with Jack, Hickson (or Leonard), Freeland, Claver and who? Sasha, Ronnie, Babbitt, EWill, Nolan, are all gone. We probably won't have a 1st-round pick. We can sign the greek guys with the Room Exception, but after that we're looking at vet mins.

We won't have cap space in summer of 2014. Summer of 2015 you have a shot b/c LMA and Wes come off the books and Lillard's extension doesn't impact cap until Summer 2016. I imagine in 2014 or 2015 we won't have a very high draft pick.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

No, they matter if the team will be over the cap in July.

sorry thats what i meant

and veto decisions based on "location" would obviously involve that locations cap situation as of july 1st 2013

 

[Hobbesarable]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

So you'd go forward with Lillard/Wes/Nic/LMA/Hickson (or Leonard) with Jack, Hickson (or Leonard), Freeland, Claver and who? Sasha, Ronnie, Babbitt, EWill, Nolan, are all gone. We probably won't have a 1st-round pick. We can sign the greek guys with the Room Exception, but after that we're looking at vet mins.

We won't have cap space in summer of 2014. Summer of 2015 you have a shot b/c LMA and Wes come off the books and Lillard's extension doesn't impact cap until Summer 2016. I imagine in 2014 or 2015 we won't have a very high draft pick.

No, I'd keep my options open. I'm open to trading any player on the team with the exception of Damian Lillard.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

Let's play a situation out. Let's say we want to trade him to the Knicks, and they want him. He has the ability to veto. But here's why "cap situation" doesn't matter, imo.

If he's traded, he loses his Bird Rights. Fine. NYK can't go over the cap to resign him, so he's an unrestricted free agent in July and stuck at a max MLE offer if the Knicks want to keep him. He can of course accept whatever any other team will give him.
But if he vetoes the trade, we're the only team that can go over the cap to resign him, and the only way to do that is if we don't renounce him. Otherwise, he's in the exact same situation...stuck at a max MLE from a team over the cap or whatever any team under the cap will give him. We can't even give him a big sign-and-trade to a team if we go over the cap next year, b/c he'll be BYC. ANd he can't be packaged with anyone else in a sign-and-trade.

So basically, the only reason Bird Rights are an issue is if POR was going to sign him for over the cap hold (7.6M). That and the ~200k a year he'll give up in 4.5% raises instead of 7.5%

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

Let's play a situation out. Let's say we want to trade him to the Knicks, and they want him. He has the ability to veto. But here's why "cap situation" doesn't matter, imo.

If he's traded, he loses his Bird Rights. Fine. NYK can't go over the cap to resign him, so he's an unrestricted free agent in July and stuck at a max MLE offer if the Knicks want to keep him. He can of course accept whatever any other team will give him.
But if he vetoes the trade, we're the only team that can go over the cap to resign him, and the only way to do that is if we don't renounce him. Otherwise, he's in the exact same situation...stuck at a max MLE from a team over the cap or whatever any team under the cap will give him. We can't even give him a big sign-and-trade to a team if we go over the cap next year, b/c he'll be BYC. ANd he can't be packaged with anyone else in a sign-and-trade.

So basically, the only reason Bird Rights are an issue is if POR was going to sign him for over the cap hold (7.6M). That and the ~200k a year he'll give up in 4.5% raises instead of 7.5%

As a tax-paying club the Knicks wouldn't get the max-MLE correct? Don't they get the mini-MLE instead?

 

[RR7]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

Let's play a situation out. Let's say we want to trade him to the Knicks, and they want him. He has the ability to veto. But here's why "cap situation" doesn't matter, imo.

If he's traded, he loses his Bird Rights. Fine. NYK can't go over the cap to resign him, so he's an unrestricted free agent in July and stuck at a max MLE offer if the Knicks want to keep him. He can of course accept whatever any other team will give him.
But if he vetoes the trade, we're the only team that can go over the cap to resign him, and the only way to do that is if we don't renounce him. Otherwise, he's in the exact same situation...stuck at a max MLE from a team over the cap or whatever any team under the cap will give him. We can't even give him a big sign-and-trade to a team if we go over the cap next year, b/c he'll be BYC. ANd he can't be packaged with anyone else in a sign-and-trade.

So basically, the only reason Bird Rights are an issue is if POR was going to sign him for over the cap hold (7.6M). That and the ~200k a year he'll give up in 4.5% raises instead of 7.5%

I agree for the most part. However, it also eliminates anyone over the cap from being a potential suitor, who might otherwise try to engage us in a S&T deal. They could look at that as a negative

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

sorry, you're right and I misspoke. I wasn't meaning difference between full non-taxper and mini. I was meaning the most they could offer was the maximum amount of their MLE available. Which as you said is mini-MLE if they're still paying tax over the "apron". They're right about on it right now. In fact, if they traded us Camby and Shumpert for JJ it would get them below the apron and allow them to use their non-taxpayer MLE.

 

[BBert]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

So basically, the only reason Bird Rights are an issue is if POR was going to sign him for over the cap hold (7.6M). That and the ~200k a year he'll give up in 4.5% raises instead of 7.5%

And if we do that, he's our "big free agent signing" and we're basically done improving the team in a significant way for a long time? Trade him.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

Let's play a situation out. Let's say we want to trade him to the Knicks, and they want him. He has the ability to veto. But here's why "cap situation" doesn't matter, imo.

If he's traded, he loses his Bird Rights. Fine. NYK can't go over the cap to resign him, so he's an unrestricted free agent in July and stuck at a max MLE offer if the Knicks want to keep him. He can of course accept whatever any other team will give him.
But if he vetoes the trade, we're the only team that can go over the cap to resign him, and the only way to do that is if we don't renounce him. Otherwise, he's in the exact same situation...stuck at a max MLE from a team over the cap or whatever any team under the cap will give him. We can't even give him a big sign-and-trade to a team if we go over the cap next year, b/c he'll be BYC. ANd he can't be packaged with anyone else in a sign-and-trade.

So basically, the only reason Bird Rights are an issue is if POR was going to sign him for over the cap hold (7.6M). That and the ~200k a year he'll give up in 4.5% raises instead of 7.5%

if you were an agent, why would you let him eliminate one of his potential landing spots? i could see if he was a minimum guy, but this might be his one chance to cash in, also 200k is 200k

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

So you'd go forward with Lillard/Wes/Nic/LMA/Hickson (or Leonard) with Jack, Hickson (or Leonard), Freeland, Claver and who? Sasha, Ronnie, Babbitt, EWill, Nolan, are all gone. We probably won't have a 1st-round pick. We can sign the greek guys with the Room Exception, but after that we're looking at vet mins.

We won't have cap space in summer of 2014. Summer of 2015 you have a shot b/c LMA and Wes come off the books and Lillard's extension doesn't impact cap until Summer 2016. I imagine in 2014 or 2015 we won't have a very high draft pick.

That team sucks

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

I agree for the most part. However, it also eliminates anyone over the cap from being a potential suitor, who might otherwise try to engage us in a S&T deal. They could look at that as a negative

The problem with a S&T is that they have to send back enough to make the trade work (if they're over the cap). If they send back someone who would put us over the cap, then he becomes BYC and we cannot make the trade work. If we've already signed any FA's, it's unlikely that we would be able to take back little enough to stay under the cap while getting JJ a contract bigger than the MLE. That's not to say it's impossible, but quite unlikely. If I did this full-time I could come up with a list of the exact teams and players for various salary thresholds.

Basically, the perfect storm for why he would need bird rights is if we signed-and-traded him as our first move of the FA season (in effect, exchanging his cap hold for the salary of the player we're taking back) and then going after the 5-8M or so worth of FA's with the space we have left.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

if you were an agent, why would you let him eliminate one of his potential landing spots? i could see if he was a minimum guy, but this might be his one chance to cash in, also 200k is 200k

not in a sign and trade, though.

Under the current CBA a player receives the same contract via sign-and-trade (four years, 4.5% raises) that he could get by signing with his new team directly, and can receive a larger Bird contract only if he stays with his previous team.

We're the only ones who can give him that extra 200k/yr

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

That team sucks

I wouldn't say "sucks"....I'd say we wouldn't be in the WCF anytime soon. But we wouldn't be a lotto team

 

[BigGameDamian]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

I can see that if the goal is to go after Pekovic. Hickson might be too expensive as a backup.

I'm not sure if I'd rather have LA or Hickson as our starting PF though.

Well there is no chance LA settles for a back up role and nor should he.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

not in a sign and trade, though. We're the only ones who can give him that extra 200k/yr

I think that is what he means by 1 more potential landing spot (us).

 

[Pinwheel1]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

So what exactly did Ben Golliver say? We MAYBE tying to trade JJ? Did he have any specifics? Not that I would expect him to be in the know. My gut tells me he knows as much as anyone on this message board. But I have to admit this thread was more interesting than the last 10 we have had on this topic.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

Well there is no chance LA settles for a back up role and nor should he.

That is what you got out of that? I am assuming the poster means you would trade LMA (most likely for a Center and a key bench player) if you gave Hickson the starting PF slot.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

I could see Denver or Philadelphia as possible trading partners. Hickson for Koufos?

 

[OSUbeavs]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

hickson sucks, who cares, there are 50 hicksons in the league

 

[RR7]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

hickson sucks, who cares, there are 50 hicksons in the league

excellent contribution

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

Let me get this straight. We want to trade our best rebounder and best inside scorer, and the guy who has brought a new energy to the team and shown Aldridge how to play in the paint?

Hickson is the king of popcorn stats ... and plays almost no defense. He hasn't taught Aldridge a fucking thing.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Ben Golliver says on Talkin Ball says the Blazers maybe trying to trade JJ HIckso

I wouldn't say "sucks"....I'd say we wouldn't be in the WCF anytime soon. But we wouldn't be a lotto team

The "mediocre middle" also known as "NBA purgatory" ... I'd say that sucks hardcore.