Trade Ben Simmons poll

[Sheldon Shape]

i think Simons is more than capable. And Ben can create for others as well. Replacing 25 ppg should not be THAT difficult, especially if you are improved defensively.

And you're more than doubling the assists and you're letting Simons eat up some of those minutes in the backcourt with CJ gone.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

i think Simons is more than capable. And Ben can create for others as well. Replacing 25 ppg should not be THAT difficult, especially if you are improved defensively.

it’s not the points that I’m concerned about it’s about when the end of the game comes who gets you those points. Things tighten up, still ok trading for Simmons but losing CJ’s ability to create own shot would be something we’d miss

 

[Orion Bailey]

so it’s not a new development that can be chalked up to the situation.

when they said he needs to resolve the issues on and off the court….

how do we know the issues are the same and still existant?

 

[Scalma]

Everybody not in Simmons’ circle: red flag, red flag, red flag, red flag

Simmons’ groupies:

 

[Orion Bailey]

Everybody not in Simmons’ circle: red flag, red flag, red flag, red flag

Simmons’ groupies:
View attachment 41191

bullshit.
Ive stated many times my concerns in this thread.
Some people see the benefits outweighing the concerns is all. Doesnt mean they are blind to them. I mean really…..
There is some room for middle ground….

 

[wizenheimer]

Trading CJ does come with some major concerns. Where does your offense come from in crunch time if Dame isn’t hitting like last nights game? Does Ben create enough offense to help offset the loss of CJ? Does Powell or AS step up offensively.

Dame wasn't hitting last night but CJ was and it made no difference; Blazers still lost, at home, to a team that hasn't been in the playoffs in 15 years

I can understand the reservations about trading CJ for Simmons because of the questions about the character of Simmons. I can't understand the idea that Portland would be taking some big risk by trading CJ because all the Blazers would be risking is the purgatory they have been stuck in for 7 seasons

 

[illmatic99]

it’s not the points that I’m concerned about it’s about when the end of the game comes who gets you those points. Things tighten up, still ok trading for Simmons but losing CJ’s ability to create own shot would be something we’d miss

sure it's a concern, but Simmons is more than capable as a shot creator (whether that's in the post or as P&R initiator). the fear is his FT shooting, but I tend to think his ~30% shooting was an anomaly. i think we're all only remembering him against ATL and forgetting what he did the previous 4 seasons.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If I were the Sixers, I would do this trade:


Barnes is a very useful piece on a contender (see: 73-win Warriors), Bagley's a throw-in who might have some value and could flourish in a change-of-scene, but the real prize is Mitchell, who is a defensive stud and a winner extraordinaire. He's like a young Kyle Lowry.

 

[Orion Bailey]

sure it's a concern, but Simmons is more than capable as a shot creator (whether that's in the post or as P&R initiator). the fear is his FT shooting, but I tend to think his ~30% shooting was an anomaly. i think we're all only remembering him against ATL and forgetting what he did the previous 4 seasons.

instant, drive thru world, with short term memory.

as a society, on many levels, to look deep into history or try to predict long term future or game plan for, seems to be all but lost in our reasoning of things.

 

[TBpup]

Dame wasn't hitting last night but CJ was and it made no difference; Blazers still lost, at home, to a team that hasn't been in the playoffs in 15 years

I can understand the reservations about trading CJ for Simmons because of the questions about the character of Simmons. I can't understand the idea that Portland would be taking some big risk by trading CJ because all the Blazers would be risking is the purgatory they have been stuck in for 7 seasons

SO MUCH THIS!!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Roco's value on the floor is really tough to quantify and Nas seems a bit injury prone, but I would do it if they included one of Seth/Thybulle in return. Especially given Roco's contract status, this would be the easiest way to extract value for him. I hate that we gave up two picks for him.

They would have to to make the money work as is. I'd throw in a pick if it was Thybulle we'd be getting back.

OR, if we wanna GET CRAZY (and turn the Nuggets into favorites in the West):

 

[Scalma]

Pros:
Defense
Passing

Cons
Shooting- it’s so bad that teams can just play wack a Simmons, which means paying a guy $30M to sit on the bench in crunch time.
Fit with Dame- useless and unwilling to evolve off the ball, which means our best player is gonna have to compromise and play off the ball instead.
Spacing- If he does play off the ball there will be less space for others to work with, which makes the team easier to defend.
Attitude- the worst combo: dumb and entitled.

yeah, the pros don’t outweigh the cons.

 

[illmatic99]

View attachment 41193

yes, and we'd inch closer to getting below the tax line if we're so inclined come February.

 

[illmatic99]

Pros:
Defense
Passing

Cons
Shooting- it’s so bad that teams can just play wack a Simmons, which means paying a guy $30M to sit on the bench in crunch time.
Fit with Dame- useless and unwilling to evolve off the ball, which means our best player is gonna have to compromise and play off the ball instead.
Spacing- If he does play off the ball there will be less space for others to work with, which makes the team easier to defend.
Attitude- the worst combo: dumb and entitled.

yeah, the pros don’t outweigh the cons.

so you wouldn't trade CJ for Ben, is that what you're saying?

 

[wizenheimer]

so you wouldn't trade CJ for Ben, is that what you're saying?

he said it just above...that people that didn't share his view were blind

 

[Orion Bailey]

Pros:
Defense
Passing

Cons
Shooting- it’s so bad that teams can just play wack a Simmons, which means paying a guy $30M to sit on the bench in crunch time.
Fit with Dame- useless and unwilling to evolve off the ball, which means our best player is gonna have to compromise and play off the ball instead.
Spacing- If he does play off the ball there will be less space for others to work with, which makes the team easier to defend.
Attitude- the worst combo: dumb and entitled.

yeah, the pros don’t outweigh the cons.

if this was accurate, your last sentence holds true. But because your first dismissed several other pros, it negated the rest of the post.
His pnr abilities are unique and elite. HIs post up abilities because of his size is unique.

I find it curious you give crap to people when its obvious you are just as biased as some others, just on the opposite spectrum.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Trading CJ does come with some major concerns. Where does your offense come from in crunch time if Dame isn’t hitting like last nights game? Does Ben create enough offense to help offset the loss of CJ? Does Powell or AS step up offensively.

I probably pull the trigger on CJ for Simmons, but I agree it's not the slam dunk improvement many posters are saying.

 

[illmatic99]

Take this for example:



The mental gymnastics and the roster hoops Billups has to go through to make these combos work are maddening. It is relatively OK to deal with against a team like SAC that plays 3 guards to begin with, but Dame or CJ kept on ending up against Barnes and their closeouts were fairly meaningless. Replace CJ with Ben and our roster starts making a lot more sense.

This remains a no-brainer to me.

 

[wizenheimer]

 

[Scalma]

if this was accurate, your last sentence holds true. But because your first dismissed several other pros, it negated the rest of the post.
His pnr abilities are unique and elite. HIs post up abilities because of his size is unique.

I find it curious you give crap to people when its obvious you are just as biased as some others, just on the opposite spectrum.

I can see why so many people on here have an issue with you. Don’t ever PM me again.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Dame wasn't hitting last night but CJ was and it made no difference; Blazers still lost, at home, to a team that hasn't been in the playoffs in 15 years

I can understand the reservations about trading CJ for Simmons because of the questions about the character of Simmons. I can't understand the idea that Portland would be taking some big risk by trading CJ because all the Blazers would be risking is the purgatory they have been stuck in for 7 seasons

We have very different definitions of purgetory.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

If I were the Sixers, I would do this trade:
View attachment 41192

Barnes is a very useful piece on a contender (see: 73-win Warriors), Bagley's a throw-in who might have some value and could flourish in a change-of-scene, but the real prize is Mitchell, who is a defensive stud and a winner extraordinaire. He's like a young Kyle Lowry.

Why would the Kings?

Mitchell on a rookie deal is worth more than Simmons on his supermax.

 

[Scalma]

so you wouldn't trade CJ for Ben, is that what you're saying?

In a vacuum maybe. But it wouldn’t be straight up in reality and I think we could do better.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I can see why so many people on here have an issue with you. Don’t ever PM me again.

holy hell man. Ditto with people having issues with you…


Just wow….

 

[TBpup]

Pros:
Defense
Passing

Cons
Shooting- it’s so bad that teams can just play wack a Simmons, which means paying a guy $30M to sit on the bench in crunch time.
Fit with Dame- useless and unwilling to evolve off the ball, which means our best player is gonna have to compromise and play off the ball instead.
Spacing- If he does play off the ball there will be less space for others to work with, which makes the team easier to defend.
Attitude- the worst combo: dumb and entitled.

yeah, the pros don’t outweigh the cons.

Aside from not pointing out some of the other areas that are pros (as @Orion Bailey pointed out....PnR elite level and post up ability), there is also not enough credit given to his pros.

Simmons has averaged more Assists/game in his career than Dame.
Simmons is one of the top defenders in the entire NBA and one of the most versatile.

That certainly does not dismiss the Cons, but the Pros need more weight IMO. As for playing off the ball, Dame hasn't exactly shown a big growth arc in that area either. He tends to stand after he give is up in comparison to Curry who immediately goes into move/cut mode.

 

[Idog1976]

We have very different definitions of purgetory.

For many people, purgatory is being in the playoffs and out in the first round. This prevents you from getting a generational talent like AD, or Zion. However, that's only part of the battle because you then have to not screw it up with bad personnel and coaching. Sadly we suffer from the latter two and our Generational talent is 6'3" and only the 2nd best at his position (I still have Curry ahead of Dame, I didn't but then last year happened).

 

[Minstrel]

View attachment 41196

View attachment 41197

It's interesting that a big knock on Simmons is his postseason play--but his advantages over McCollum only expand in the postseason.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Why would the Kings?

Don't ask me, but they already have offered everyone but Fox and Halliburton.

 

[BigGameDamian]