Better now than before the talent dump?

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Boob: Is part of your thesis that players get you to the playoffs, but coaches put you over the top and get you to the finals?

I definitely think Nate got owned and exposed in the playoffs. Once our team improved and matured enough to get that far, it was time for a new coach.
 
Boob: Is part of your thesis that players get you to the playoffs, but coaches put you over the top and get you to the finals?

Sort of. Let me put it another way. Talent will get you far, but only so far. Basketball is still a team sport and teams win titles. Sure, you need top individual talent to just advance in the playoffs, but once you get down to the final four teams (conference finalists), all the remaining teams have lots of individual talent. So, what determines who eventually wins the championship?

This is where coaching comes into play. You need a coach that has a system that takes advantage of the individual talent of your superstars, but also maximizes the contributions of your role players and bench. You also need everyone to buy into the system. I think Larry Brown got that out of those Pistons teams. Phil Jackson definitely got it out of the Bulls teams and later the Lakers. Remember, Michael Jordan did not reach the finals until his 7th season, Pippin's 4th. They had the talent prior to that first title in 1990-91, but they didn't have the right coach with the right system. Once they did, they were truly dominant - a true dynasty (intrupted only by Jordan's ridiculous baseball "career").

I think the best example I remember of a coach maximizing the talent of his roster was Chuck Daly with those Pistoms teams back in the late 80s/early 90s. Sure, he had some very good players, but if you compare those Pistons teams to the Celtics, Lakers and Bulls of that time period, there's no way the Pistons win two titles on raw talent alone. But Daly had a real knack for getting the most out of role players, with limited talent and huge deficiencies, on his roster. He managed to exploit the one and two dimensional talent of players like Vinny Johnson, James Edwards, John Salley, Dennis Rodman, etc. while hiding their weaknesses. He knew how to use his players to maximum advantage and what combinations worked well together.

I don't mean to bash Nate too much. After all, comparing most coaches to the all-time greats that have multiple rings, isn't really that fair of a comparison. But, I think he was too rigid in his offensive and defensive sets and his substitution patterns. I think that made the Blazers too predictable and easy to game plan for in the post season. Of course, in the end, he had clearly lost his team and had to go, but even before that, I don't think this team ever reached their full potential (in terms of post season success) under Nate.

BNM
 
Boob: Is part of your thesis that players get you to the playoffs, but coaches put you over the top and get you to the finals?

I definitely think Nate got owned and exposed in the playoffs. Once our team improved and matured enough to get that far, it was time for a new coach.

I think Nate got "exposed" because Houston was a veteran team with a healthy Yao while Nate had Brandon Roy and a bunch of young role players, Phoenix had Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, and Nate had a hobbled Roy, and Dallas was just better, as shown by then winning a title.

Just so I'm straight, does coaching only matter when taking a very good team to a title?
 
I think BBert (and BNM) have a good point. The world's greatest coach won't get a bad team to the playoffs. But a very good/great coach can bring out that extra edge. And often it's a fine edge. Playoff games especially are frequently won/lost by close scores. In individual sports, winning and losing can be fractions of a second. That's why both college & pro sports, and individual Olympians and pros, look for the special coaches. It's no accident that some coaches turn out winner after winner.
 
Any Blazers fan who suffered through the infamous Game 7 meltdown against Phil Jackson's Lakers should be painfully aware the difference a great coach can make in tipping the scales in a close series.
 
Any Blazers fan who suffered through the infamous Game 7 meltdown against Phil Jackson's Lakers should be painfully aware the difference a great coach can make in tipping the scales in a close series.

Dunleavy wasn't the one missing wide open shots and whistling solely for one team.
 
But Dunleavy called an unncessary time out when the Blazers were scoring pretty much at will, stopped the momentum, allowed the Lakers to catch their breath. I recall like yesterday at the start of the 4th quarter sitting in Staples Center balcony screaming "Don't relax! Not for a microsecond!". It came out after the fact that during a time out the Blazers were discussing the filet mignon at the best steak house in Indianapolis. The Coach should have knocked their heads together! I am not putting all the onus on Dunleavy but can't believe he was just a helpless witness.
 
Dunleavy wasn't the one missing wide open shots and whistling solely for one team.

No, but Phil Jackson was the one who convinced the Lakers that they weren't dead when the Blazers had them down by 15 in the 4th. Coaches can't win the game, but they can affect the mental state of their players, make adjustments to what the other team is doing, and give their teams a better chance of winning.
 
It's the players, not the coach

You hate the team because it has no General Manager, yet you think we need no coach. A paradoxical conundrum.

Interesting, intriguing, and thought-provoking. Dumb, but interesting, intriguing, and thought-provoking.
 
You hate the team because it has no General Manager, yet you think we need no coach. A paradoxical conundrum.

Interesting, intriguing, and thought-provoking. Dumb, but interesting, intriguing, and thought-provoking.

Repped!!!!

BNM
 
No, but Phil Jackson was the one who convinced the Lakers that they weren't dead when the Blazers had them down by 15 in the 4th. Coaches can't win the game, but they can affect the mental state of their players, make adjustments to what the other team is doing, and give their teams a better chance of winning.

Well, by that logic, then Dunleavy convinced the Blazers that they could win the series after they went down 3-1 and had to go back to LA. That Blazers team had a bunch of "B" players, had nobody on any All-NBA, yet were that close to playing for a title. A very impressive coaching job if you ask me, because there were a lot of egos who wanted the ball on that team.
 
You hate the team because it has no General Manager, yet you think we need no coach. A paradoxical conundrum.

Interesting, intriguing, and thought-provoking. Dumb, but interesting, intriguing, and thought-provoking.

That's perfectly logical when you ascribe to the "it's the players and not the coach" theory. A GM gets the players. A coach then tries to win with the players the GM gets for the roster. Derrrr

Hence, a GM is more important than that coach, IMO. What were you trying to say again?
 

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