Better team without Roy?

[Natebishop3]

3-0?

 

[BlayZa]

we'd be even better if roy can play within this new style and compliment it, i just hope the breaks dont come on - i love to see em run

 

[Darkwebs]

Someone will have to point out the competition that we've played these 3 games, 2 of which had as many injured guys as we do.

 

[RipCityInsider]

3-0?

Who have we played the last 3 games?

 

[MIXUM]

vs garbage teams who were missing curry and jennings.

however.... they are making a strong strong case for roy to come off bench. we need a backup pg/pf and we could be pretty good.

houston is right on our ass though for 8th seed as well as phoenix.

 

[illmatic99]

Against Minnesota (1-17 on the road) that had its starting center go down on the opening tip.
Against Golden State (3-12 on the road), that had its star guard and starting center missing.
Against Milwaukee (3-10 on the road), that was missing its star guard, its starting SG, and key bench scorer that always gives us fits.

Might want to wait until we beat someone decent before making such grandiose claims.

 

[Natebishop3]

Regardless of who we've played, it's hard to argue with the numbers. Aldridge is thriving without Roy in an up-tempo offense. I think having Matthews is making the current incarnation of Roy obsolete. Roy two years ago? No. Roy right now? Yes. This team is built to run. Aldridge, Miller, Rudy, Matthews, Batum.... this team should be pushing the tempo. Roy is the only guy who wants to slow it down and play in the half court.

 

[Natebishop3]

You guys keep pointing to the schedule... should I go back and point to NJ, Washington, and Philly?

 

[MIXUM]

philly is playing well and the wiz are clicking. nets was a disgrace.

 

[RipCityInsider]

Regardless of who we've played, it's hard to argue with the numbers. Aldridge is thriving without Roy in an up-tempo offense. I think having Matthews is making the current incarnation of Roy obsolete. Roy two years ago? No. Roy right now? Yes. This team is built to run. Aldridge, Miller, Rudy, Matthews, Batum.... this team should be pushing the tempo. Roy is the only guy who wants to slow it down and play in the half court.

We would blow these teams out too with Roy. Are you implying we would lose with Roy against the previous 3 teams? I understand you like entertaining and exciting basketball, but that doesn't always equate to a championship. Look at the Spurs.

 

[MIXUM]

after the next 4 games we will be 15-18

 

[Mediocre Man]

The 3-0 record isn't impressive at all, IMO. Minnesota, GS and Milwaukee all suck, and all have injury issues of their own.


They might not be playing all that much better, but what they are doing is playing more entertaining basketball. The ball and player movement has been long overdue. What they have done is get an offense that they can effectively use int he playoffs.

 

[Mediocre Man]

We would blow these teams out too with Roy. Are you implying we would lose with Roy against the previous 3 teams? I understand you like entertaining and exciting basketball, but that doesn't always equate to a championship. Look at the Spurs.

The Spurs are very entertaining, they just haven't run until this year. Entertaining basketball is way more than just running. The Spurs move the ball and players better than most teams.

 

[illmatic99]

You guys keep pointing to the schedule... should I go back and point to NJ, Washington, and Philly?

So? (and if you're pointing at the numbers, Roy played in that game when Aldridge dropped 35/10 on Dallas- a far better team than what we've faced in this homestand, but that's beside the poitn. )

The other players play more freely without Roy and tend to have a sense of accountability for their play, rather than looking for Brandon to bail them out. I think once the players, and most importantly NATE realizes the talents on this team outside of Roy, this team can overcome some of the injury trouble. Roy realizing that a change to his game can enhance this team's success is also key. He's still got some skills that no one else on this team has, and he can be used to our advantage.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Maybe the question should be do they play better with LMA at center? Wasn't he at center at the end against Dallas too. Maybe it's not Roy. Maybe we should go to small ball with Batum at PF.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I think the team plays a lot better without him. He stifles movement and sucks on defense.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Regardless of who we've played, it's hard to argue with the numbers. Aldridge is thriving without Roy in an up-tempo offense. I think having Matthews is making the current incarnation of Roy obsolete. Roy two years ago? No. Roy right now? Yes. This team is built to run. Aldridge, Miller, Rudy, Matthews, Batum.... this team should be pushing the tempo. Roy is the only guy who wants to slow it down and play in the half court.

I'm going to quibble with this just a little bit. LMA has been doing great on the block in half-court sets, he's getting better shots because Wesley, Nic, Rudy and Miller (and Camby) all move through the lane, cut and stay in motion ... hell, they're even setting screens and actually running pick and ROLLS looking for the roll man (LMA). When Roy is in the game, everyone clears to the weakside or to the baseline and they stand perfectly still or feign a high screen so Roy can dribble one-on-two. In that offense LMA gets frozen out or if he does get the ball on the block, there are no cutters or motion so opposing teams can double him much easier without fear of guarding their man.

Bottom line: I think Roy almost has to move to the bench where he can hopefully be more effective, because Roy usurping LMA's emerging alpha-dog role when he's playing like he is right now? Shit, that would almost be criminal.

 

[Trader Ed]

Against Minnesota (1-17 on the road) that had its starting center go down on the opening tip.
Against Golden State (3-12 on the road), that had its star guard and starting center missing.
Against Milwaukee (3-10 on the road), that was missing its star guard, its starting SG, and key bench scorer that always gives us fits.

Might want to wait until we beat someone decent before making such grandiose claims.

cry me a river... boo hoo

vs us...
Who has our dynasty center out for the year AGAIN
and our 3 time all star guard out with bad knees
and our backup center returning from injury out with a sprained ankle
and our backup PF/C out with a bum shoulder
and our starting SF back from a bad shoulder which was surgically repaired last year
and and and....

I am not going to cry over spilled millk about another teams injuries until they exceed our cast of players

 

[Nikolokolus]

The Spurs are very entertaining, they just haven't run until this year. Entertaining basketball is way more than just running. The Spurs move the ball and players better than most teams.

Yup, yup, yup.

We don't have to have a SSOL offense for it to be entertaining, but there has to be moving parts to force a defense out of position. When you isolate a player over and over and over like we did in the past it makes it easy for defenses to guess what you are trying to run. It's a credit to Brandon just how awesome he was at that kind of offense before he was robbed of health, but it's come at the expense of other players developing fully on this team.

 

[Natebishop3]

Hardly anyone has answered the question though.... do we play better without Roy? I think we do. Who cares who we've played or even what the record is. I think we clearly are a better team without him on the floor.

 

[Minstrel]

No, I don't think the team is better without Roy, because he's still a legitimate NBA player. I think the team is better when Roy isn't featured and trying to play the way he used to, though.

Right now, Roy should come off the bench, while he learns his new capabilities and works on adjusting how he plays. Once he's had time to adjust, the team can see how good he is and determine what his role should be. If he can reinvent himself as a shooter, he could play well off Aldridge (or Oden, if and when).

 

[Natebishop3]

No, I don't think the team is better without Roy, because he's still a legitimate NBA player. I think the team is better when Roy isn't featured and trying to play the way he used to, though.

Right now, Roy should come off the bench, while he learns his new capabilities and works on adjusting how he plays. Once he's had time to adjust, the team can see how good he is and determine what his role should be. If he can reinvent himself as a shooter, he could play well off Aldridge (or Oden, if and when).

That's all well and good, but this team doesn't play that way when Roy is on the active roster. He is featured, and we have no idea if he'll ever adjust how he plays. Right now I would put the team ahead of Brandon Roy and his development. If Aldridge can keep up this pace and Matthews continues to put up good numbers, this team will make the playoffs... hell, they might even get to the second round. We just need Camby and Joel to be healthy.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I think the team plays a lot better without him. He stifles movement and sucks on defense.

Maybe. But i think his teammates have to look at themselves and play the same way with or without Roy. Rudy for example plays most of his minutes when Roy is on the bench. Why is he not attacking like he did tonight? LaMarcus was missing alot of easy shots at the rim when Roy was playing. Not Roy's fault. And Roy was missing a lot of easy shots too. (Not his knees fault) I just think part of the problem is when Camby or Joel are in the game with Miller, that is two guys you can cheap off of. But when you have three shooters in the game (Roy/Rudy along with Nic and Wes) then LMA has a lot more room to operate.

 

[Nikolokolus]

That's all well and good, but this team doesn't play that way when Roy is on the active roster. He is featured, and we have no idea if he'll ever adjust how he plays. Right now I would put the team ahead of Brandon Roy and his development. If Aldridge can keep up this pace and Matthews continues to put up good numbers, this team will make the playoffs... hell, they might even get to the second round. We just need Camby and Joel to be healthy.

The million dollar question though is this: How do you get Brandon to accept that the limitations he's facing are likely chronic and that simple rest or monitoring his minutes isn't going to allow him to get back to the player he used to be and beyond getting him to face and accept this, how do you do it without alienating him, damaging his confidence further or turning him into a malcontent? He is after all probably going to be here for a good long while with that contract of his.

There may not be a clean answer; a win-win resolution may not be possible, but if I were Nate and management, I'd be damned if I wouldn't do everything I could to get him to buy into a Manu Ginobli or Jamal Crawford type role -- assuming he can get enough back physically to sustain that type of play for 20 minutes a night, instead of 38.

 

[Pinwheel1]

The million dollar question though is this: How do you get Brandon to accept that the limitations he's facing are likely chronic and that simple rest or monitoring his minutes isn't going to allow him to get back to the player he used to be and beyond getting him to face and accept this, how do you do it without alienating him, damaging his confidence further or turning him into a malcontent? He is after all probably going to be here for a good long while with that contract of his.

There may not be a clean answer; a win-win resolution may not be possible, but if I were Nate and management, I'd be damned if I wouldn't do everything I could to get him to buy into a Manu Ginobli or Jamal Crawford type role -- assuming he can get enough back physically to sustain that type of play for 20 minutes a night, instead of 38.

The likely scenario (IMO) is that it will take a whole year for him to completely come to that conclusion. Hopefully it is not like when they wanted to move KiKI to the bench in favor of starting a young Jerome Kersey. Neither Drexler or KiKi would accept it. But it was clear to everyone else. Unfortunately in that scenario (like in most) it took a trade for KiKi to figure it out. He was fine coming off the bench in New York, but being demoted was not acceptable in Portland. Lets hope Brandon is smarter. But then again he could be another Grant Hill and get his health back. No one knows for sure.

 

[THE HCP]

I think had we played SA, Dallas and LA..... we would have been 0-3 and this question would not even be asked. Schedule is the reason.

 

[Minstrel]

That's all well and good, but this team doesn't play that way when Roy is on the active roster. He is featured, and we have no idea if he'll ever adjust how he plays. Right now I would put the team ahead of Brandon Roy and his development. If Aldridge can keep up this pace and Matthews continues to put up good numbers, this team will make the playoffs... hell, they might even get to the second round. We just need Camby and Joel to be healthy.

I wasn't advocating putting Roy's development/adaption ahead of the team, thus the suggestion that he move to the bench.

If what you're saying is that the team refuses to not feature him, what makes you think they simply will stop playing him? Any scenario that starts with the premise that the team caters exclusively to Roy is a dead-end from the start. The only place we can even have a discussion is if we start from the premise that the team will do whatever is best for the team. In that case, I think what I said is valid.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think had we played SA, Dallas and LA..... we would have been 0-3 and this question would not even be asked. Schedule is the reason.

I partly agree with that, but even with the result in doubt against Minny and Golden State I found myself thinking that win or lose I'd much rather watch team oriented ball versus the isolation stuff we ran to death with Brandon in the past. We'll see what happens moving forward.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I think had we played SA, Dallas and LA..... we would have been 0-3 and this question would not even be asked. Schedule is the reason.

How does Roy make us better? He can't do what he used to be able to do. He doesn't cut or move like Rudy, Nic and Wes do. He can't do as much right now as he could before. That is painfully obvious. I don't know if he can adapt to a faster paced offense where he isn't the focal point. But if he can't, I don't want him to play.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Hey Nate, if I didn't answer your question directly I'll do it now. I think the starting lineup is better without a gimpy Roy and I think ball and player movement is better without him period, but does all of this ultimately add up to more wins and more success? I have no idea. (But at least it's easier to watch).