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Denny Crane said:
I don't support Obama bailing out the banks (it was W, but who cares about facts?).
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It's nice to see you finally admit that, lol. For years you've had this weird obsession of blaming Obama for the entire deficit since the Clinton years.
 
jlprk said:
Denny has often said that instead of the bailout, Obama should have let the banks fail (which would have called millions of middle class home mortgages into immediate full payback during the banks' bankruptcy proceedings, destroying the middle class).

But now that a Democrat agrees with him, Denny flip flops and worries about bank employees being laid off if the banks subdivide. Imagine the tens of millions of people who would have lost their homes under Denny's pre-flip flop opinion...a lot more than the 1000 unemployed bank employees he claims to worry about now (out of the 241,000 who would be grandfathered into the new, smaller banks created from the old subdivided banks).
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Denny is in one of his argue with everyone about anything spells. It's his way of celebrating that he finally got his taxes done.
 
In Denny world "Big Science" is evil but "Big Banks" are our friends.
 
And my work here is done, Denny will now post from multiple blogs and community college term papers showing that... what are you arguing about now again?

I'll check back in a few hours.
 
Hard to say how many, if any, jobs will be lost if the large banks are broken up.

The only comparison I can think of was the breakup of AT&T phone system. The breakup did result in more competition in the phone business. However, I am not convinced the results prove the breakup was a good thing. There have been negative results.

1) Personal services have been reduced. Many services that used to be included in the monthly bill now have fees.

2) Not sure if jobs where lost or gained? However, the competition drove down the wages for some workers. Unfortunately, it was not the executives that took a pay cut, it was the majority of rank and file workers that are now making less.

3) I am not convinced we are now paying less for phone service than we did before the breakup. It sure feels like I am paying more and getting less than before the breakup.
 
oldfisherman said:
1) Personal services have been reduced. Many services that used to be included in the monthly bill now have fees.
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I remember when the phone company would charge for long distance, 3 way calling, voice mail, call forwarding, caller ID. Any extra feature was an additional charge. All of these services are free.

Not sure which services you are referring to.
 
oldfisherman said:
3) I am not convinced we are now paying less for phone service than we did before the breakup. It sure feels like I am paying more and getting less than before the breakup.
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Phone service is way more cheaper now.
 
oldfisherman said:
Hard to say how many, if any, jobs will be lost if the large banks are broken up.

The only comparison I can think of was the breakup of AT&T phone system. The breakup did result in more competition in the phone business. However, I am not convinced the results prove the breakup was a good thing. There have been negative results.

1) Personal services have been reduced. Many services that used to be included in the monthly bill now have fees.

2) Not sure if jobs where lost or gained? However, the competition drove down the wages for some workers. Unfortunately, it was not the executives that took a pay cut, it was the majority of rank and file workers that are now making less.

3) I am not convinced we are now paying less for phone service than we did before the breakup. It sure feels like I am paying more and getting less than before the breakup.
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If Ma Bell were still the only phone company, and owned half the homes in America until people finish paying off their mortgages decades from now, and demanded $800 billion from taxpayers or they would fold, taking all those home ownerships with them down the financial drain to their (probably Chinese) creditors, would taxpayers wish the company had been subdivided instead of handing over much of America to China?

The $800 billion cost would greatly exceed any phone price increase or service decrease of which you speak. Actually, it'd be much more than $800 billion, since millions of non-mortgagees (e.g. a renter who works at a grocery store) would be out of work, too, since their work is to service the (newly bankrupt) mortgagees.

America would be saying...THANKS, DENNY!
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I remember when the phone company would charge for long distance, 3 way calling, voice mail, call forwarding, caller ID. Any extra feature was an additional charge. All of these services are free.

Not sure which services you are referring to.
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Local rates actually increased after the breakup. Long distance rates did come down.

The rest of your points where not available at the time of the breakup, so no Scooby treat for you.

The free service I miss the most is talking to an operator and having them find a phone number for a person or company, especially out of state phone numbers.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
In Denny world "Big Science" is evil but "Big Banks" are our friends.
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SlyPokerDog said:
Here is more of Denny's "Big Science" evil bullshit - http://time.com/4300477/bluefin-tuna-population-overfishing/

Denny had sushi for lunch, this story is completely wrong.
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cover-image.jpg
 
oldfisherman said:
Hard to say how many, if any, jobs will be lost if the large banks are broken up.

The only comparison I can think of was the breakup of AT&T phone system. The breakup did result in more competition in the phone business. However, I am not convinced the results prove the breakup was a good thing. There have been negative results.

1) Personal services have been reduced. Many services that used to be included in the monthly bill now have fees.

2) Not sure if jobs where lost or gained? However, the competition drove down the wages for some workers. Unfortunately, it was not the executives that took a pay cut, it was the majority of rank and file workers that are now making less.

3) I am not convinced we are now paying less for phone service than we did before the breakup. It sure feels like I am paying more and getting less than before the breakup.
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If you shrink any bureaucracy, jobs are lost. Minimally, middle management (good paying jobs, too). The business loses economies of scale so it has to lose employees (among other expenses) to be profitable.

As far as Sanders' folly, any serious proposal like his would be passed by experts to see what the effects are. He has no clue what the effects are.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
How much data do you use?
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3G plan. On t-mobile, too. It includes the cost of the phone (monthly payments), but the cost of a landline phone is (and always was) a tiny fraction of the cost of a smart phone.
 
Denny Crane said:
If you shrink any bureaucracy, jobs are lost. Minimally, middle management (good paying jobs, too). The business loses economies of scale so it has to lose employees (among other expenses) to be profitable.

As far as Sanders' folly, any serious proposal like his would be passed by experts to see what the effects are. He has no clue what the effects are.
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Since when do Libertarians care about fewer jobs, or their effects? Profit efficiency is the whole idea of what you're trying to accomplish.
 
jlprk said:
Since when do Libertarians care about fewer jobs, or their effects? Profit efficiency is the whole idea of what you're trying to accomplish.
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You have no clue what Libertarians care about.

I care about paying more taxes for stupid and harmful programs. You should, too.
 
He's taking over the world with this message board. It's the perfect way to spread his gospel. Mark my word, Libertarianism will someday be renamed Dennyism.
 
Denny Crane said:
If you shrink any bureaucracy, jobs are lost. Minimally, middle management (good paying jobs, too). The business loses economies of scale so it has to lose employees (among other expenses) to be profitable.
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If you said shrinking to remove a layer of a government bureaucracy, I would agree with you. However, most large companies are not run as inefficiently as our government, or the companies do not stay in business for long.

If there is a big bank breakup, I believe most jobs would be shifted around to other companies. I do not believe there will be a shrinking of the bureaucracy. It will be more like flatting out the bureaucratic charts. Some mid-management may even receive a promotion when hired by a new start-up company, since the number of top level officers will increase.

However, a breakup also provides an opportunity to lower the wage scale and benefits for the employees moving to new companies. It also provides a good time for big companies to get out from under some of their expensive retirement plan obligations by removing employees nearing retirement age.
 
oldfisherman said:
If you said shrinking to remove a layer of a government bureaucracy, I would agree with you. However, most large companies are not run as inefficiently as our government, or the companies do not stay in business for long.

If there is a big bank breakup, I believe most jobs would be shifted around to other companies. I do not believe there will be a shrinking of the bureaucracy. It will be more like flatting out the bureaucratic charts. Some mid-management may even receive a promotion when hired by a new start-up company, since the number of top level officers will increase.

However, a breakup also provides an opportunity to lower the wage scale and benefits for the employees moving to new companies. It also provides a good time for big companies to get out from under some of their expensive retirement plan obligations by removing employees nearing retirement age.
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Really big companies are nearly as irrational as government. Not many businesses bigger than these banks :)

Proof of irrationality would be the financial collapse in 2008. They sure didn't make rational decisions, or they wouldn't have failed. Ditto for Government Motors.

Reasons for irrationality can be turf, glory, petty relationships, bad information, ego, and even criminality, etc.

Splitting up the companies adds massive costs to each of the companies. They all need their own computer systems, data centers, internet connections, office buildings, etc. And pity the fools, they'll each need their own bookkeepers and accountants. To pay for these expenses, they will cut other expenses. Salaries being the easiest one to trim.

I'd also point out that it is consistent to not favor government interference in the economy and that means no bailouts and no breakups.
 
Denny Crane said:
My cell phone bill for 2 phones is $180/month.

Did I ever pay $180/month for two landlines with all the services? NO WAY.
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SlyPokerDog said:
How much data do you use?
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Denny Crane said:
3G plan. On t-mobile, too. It includes the cost of the phone (monthly payments), but the cost of a landline phone is (and always was) a tiny fraction of the cost of a smart phone.
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Wow 3G! And you're financing your phones with them.

You're bragging that you never got to pay $180 for slow internet and to finance two phones. Hell of a deal, lol.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Wow 3G! And you're financing your phones with them.

You're bragging that you never got to pay $180 for slow internet and to finance two phones. Hell of a deal, lol.
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3 gigabytes.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Per phone?!?

Wow, hell of a deal! (psst... I'm being sarcastic, that's not very good for what you're paying.)
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Per phone. Maybe it's 6gig. Whatever it is, my phone bill has been several times higher than my land line ever was.

And several of the baby bells have merged to become bigger companies. AT&T basically went out of business and it's assets were bought by bell south who assumed the name.

AT&T was one of the first stocks on the stock market. It's so old it has a single letter, "T", for its symbol. Sears is another one, "S."
 
Denny Crane said:
Per phone. Maybe it's 6gig. Whatever it is, my phone bill has been several times higher than my land line ever was.
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But included in your bill is the financing of your phone and internet service. As an old dude you can get a flip phone for $15 a month with unlimited calls. That's a more accurate comparison.
 
My Verizon bill was $180 for two lines and 10g shared data. I bought the phones outright.

Copper lines are rotting away for lack of use. I do have a landline because I do a lot of business on the phone. At $29 with free long distance and call waiting/voicemail/etc., it's still more than I paid for POTS in the old days. It's also a bundle deal with internet and TV. Time Warner phone service.

T-mobile charges $40/line just for voice calling. Data is extra.

Verizon was similar.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
That's a terrible deal.

And anyone can get a better deal from Verizon then what you have, lol.

http://www.verizonwireless.com/landingpages/verizon-plan/

They must not like you.
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Verizon cut their rates after I and millions of others bailed on their high prices. Competition is such a wonderful thing.

Haven't you seen all the "come back!" Verizon ads on TV?

AT&T was getting competition from Sprint and MCI, who ran competing networks. GTE was never a baby bell. There were other phone companies, too.
 
Denny Crane said:
AT&T was one of the first stocks on the stock market. It's so old it has a single letter, "T", for its symbol. Sears is another one, "S."
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S is Sprint, not Sears.

barfo
 
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