Bill Russell's career stats

[magnifier661]

BASKETBALL REFERENCE

15 points, 22 rebounds, they didn't keep track of blocks back then, but I would suspect it's at least 3 a game.

Getting 22 boards these days are a lot tougher then it was back then, but honestly, can't Oden fit this mold?

I realistically think Oden could have a career average of 15 points, 15 boards and 3 blocks a game. Would that make him a "once in a lifetime center"?

 

[B-Roy]

I realistically think Oden could have a career average of 15 points, 15 boards and 3 blocks a game. Would that make him a "once in a lifetime center"?

That depends. Will he win 11 championships during that time?

 

[SpanishFly]

That depends. Will he win 11 championships during that time?

realistically no team will be able to do that again, times are very different, 2 or 3 would be excellent.

 

[Nikolokolus]

BASKETBALL REFERENCE

15 points, 22 rebounds, they didn't keep track of blocks back then, but I would suspect it's at least 3 a game.

Getting 22 boards these days are a lot tougher then it was back then, but honestly, can't Oden fit this mold?

I realistically think Oden could have a career average of 15 points, 15 boards and 3 blocks a game. Would that make him a "once in a lifetime center"?

Once in a lifetime? Wouldn't Dwight Howard's 17/13/2 career averages also make him "once in a lifetime?" Maybe you meant "once in a generation", or "one of the best in the past ten years" and I think those kinds of numbers are possible. If he can stay healthy and cut the fouls to the point where he can stay on the floor for 32+ minutes a night I'd say it's possible Greg averages closer to 16/13/2.5 and ends up being one of the better centers of this era, but "once in a lifetime" indicates to me best of all time, not one of the best in the last 5-10 years. And I don't think he's going to top guys like Wilt (30/23/no blocks recorded), Russell, Olajuwan (22/11/3) or Shaq (25/11/2.3)

 

[Wheels]

if he basically shuts down the post and control's the paint like that... then yes... yes he will be

 

[Nikolokolus]

if he basically shuts down the post and control's the paint like that... then yes... yes he will be

I don't think it's possible. The defensive 3 seconds rule, the restricted circle, the way players can drive into the paint and hit a stationary target and it gets called a blocking foul, I think all of these things pretty much make it impossible for a center to play goalie the way Russell did back in the day. Can Greg become the best possible version that this era's rules will allow? Perhaps, but there's a whole lot of basketball left to be played, and a lot can happen (both good or bad).

 

[magnifier661]

Once in a lifetime? Wouldn't Dwight Howard's 17/13/2 career averages also make him "once in a lifetime?" Maybe you meant "once in a generation", or "one of the best in the past ten years" and I think those kinds of numbers are possible. If he can stay healthy and cut the fouls to the point where he can stay on the floor for 32+ minutes a night I'd say it's possible Greg averages closer to 16/13/2.5 and ends up being one of the better centers of this era, but "once in a lifetime" indicates to me best of all time, not one of the best in the last 5-10 years. And I don't think he's going to top guys like Wilt (30/23/no blocks recorded), Russell, Olajuwan (22/11/3) or Shaq (25/11/2.3)

I stand corrected.

 

[Idog1976]

I don't think it's possible. The defensive 3 seconds rule, the restricted circle, the way players can drive into the paint and hit a stationary target and it gets called a blocking foul, I think all of these things pretty much make it impossible for a center to play goalie the way Russell did back in the day. Can Greg become the best possible version that this era's rules will allow? Perhaps, but there's a whole lot of basketball left to be played, and a lot can happen (both good or bad).

Everything you talked about there are ways in which the NBA has hamstrung the bigman in favor of the perimeter player. Wilt's numbers are forever out of reach as are likely Shaq, Hakeem and Russell's.

With that said I think Oden can be the best center since Shaq which is still pretty impressive. I think Oden will eclipse Howard if he gets better about fouls and stays healthy. He already is WAY ahead of schedule on offense and is as good or better then Howard. Seeing as he was touted as a legendary defender and rebounder I think the more he recovers and gains confidence the likelier it becomes that he becomes the premier center in the NBA.

He will never catch those legends however, it simply cannot be done without rule changes/reversions.

 

[BenDavis503]

That depends. Will he win 11 championships during that time?

Wasn't there only like 12 teams or something back then? I am not sure, just asking.

 

[magnifier661]

I think the more he recovers and gains confidence the likelier it becomes that he becomes the premier center in the NBA.

DING DING DING! I've said this all along. Oden's issues were mainly "mental" and yes the injury was what brought it on. The fact that Portland had the #1 pick, while Durant was available were all the necessary ingredients to question his value, i.e. Jordan vs. Bowie fiasco.

If Oden can muster up about 10 more solid performances like he has the previous 4 games, all will be hindsight and he can focus more on being what's expected. I think he's a very sensitive person (Not in a gay way), but understands the emotional attachment most Blazer fans have for this team. It's almost our life in a way. I think his injury made him feel like he let his team down, let the fans down. He thought too much about that, his fouls and his inability to play a season healthy (I put an "*" for last season because history proves it takes 2 years to fully recover from knee surgery)

Regardless if he's a 20/12/2 guy or a 15/13/3 guy, I think we will be seeing more of his "potential" sooner than later.

 

[magnifier661]

Wasn't there only like 12 teams or something back then? I am not sure, just asking.

Yeah and only 2 centers. It was him and Wilt mainly. I think the NBA average size was like 6'5" or something. I know it's a lot shorter than it is now.

 

[RR7]

Wasn't there only like 12 teams or something back then? I am not sure, just asking.

When he started his career, there were 8 teams. His last season, it had expanded to 14.

 

[RR7]

Yeah and only 2 centers. It was him and Wilt mainly. I think the NBA average size was like 6'5" or something. I know it's a lot shorter than it is now.

It's funny to look at some guys listed as Cs back then who are about Darius Miles' size, basically.

 

[BenDavis503]

It's funny to look at some guys listed as Cs back then who are about Darius Miles' size, basically.

yeah LOL I started looking up some old stats cuz of this thread. Very interesting stuff!

George Mikan truly was a monster of his era.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

realistically no team will be able to do that again, times are very different, 2 or 3 would be excellent.

And if they did that with Oden having those stats, I think you could make the case of him being a once in a generation kind of center.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

I don't think it's possible. The defensive 3 seconds rule, the restricted circle, the way players can drive into the paint and hit a stationary target and it gets called a blocking foul, I think all of these things pretty much make it impossible for a center to play goalie the way Russell did back in the day. Can Greg become the best possible version that this era's rules will allow? Perhaps, but there's a whole lot of basketball left to be played, and a lot can happen (both good or bad).

He doesn't need to do it as effective as Russ did it. He just needs to do it as effective as the admiral did it.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Man I can't wait to read the comments and threads around here at some point in the season when Greg hits an inevitable rough patch, or say he goes up against Howard and Shaq and doesn't dominate ... Maybe just a little bit of temperance is in order after Greg's first foul-less game of his career and three games against some of the biggest bottom feeders in the league.

 

[magnifier661]

Man I can't wait to read the comments and threads around here at some point in the season when Greg hits an inevitable rough patch, or say he goes up against Howard and Shaq and doesn't dominate ... Maybe just a little bit of temperance is in order after Greg's first foul-less game of his career and three games against some of the biggest bottom feeders in the league.

But could you imagine if he came out and did really well? This place would shut down with all the traffic and posting. HAHAHAHHA

 

[Idog1976]

Man I can't wait to read the comments and threads around here at some point in the season when Greg hits an inevitable rough patch, or say he goes up against Howard and Shaq and doesn't dominate ... Maybe just a little bit of temperance is in order after Greg's first foul-less game of his career and three games against some of the biggest bottom feeders in the league.

I'm merely saying he has the tools to become the best center, the length, returning hops, athleticism and strength make Oden a legitimate threat to be the best center in the league. As it stands right now I put him around 4th of the guys currently playing behind only: Howard, Lopez and arguably Bynum. Oden could easily pass Lopez and Bynum leaving only Howard as better.

This speaks more to the dearth of quality big men then Oden being a once in a lifetime guy, but hey that's what makes it a generational thing (best of his generation potentially). He wouldn't be the first big man to enjoy little or no competition. It's not like Shaq was going up against Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson and Kareem in their primes. He was peaking when the others were shells of their former selves. I see a similar situation right now with only a few guys vying for best. You could add Hibbert to the list of current premiere big men, but I would take Oden any day.

Seeing Oden's explosive moves and soft touch has made me more, not less, sure that he will be great. I simply don't see that kind of scoring touch on any of the premiere big men other then Bynum and Oden is already a better defender. He may not put up Howards gaudy numbers as Oden has more talent on his team, but I expect him to beat Howard in head to head play by sometime next season if not before.

 

[Minstrel]

I don't think 15 RPG is very possible these days without dedicating yourself just to rebounding (similar to what Dennis Rodman did in the Bulls portion of his career on the offensive end...he just passed the ball and crashed the boards). Oden could do that, but I think it would be a waste of his abilities, as I think he can be an offensive force.

I think he's unlikely to hit extremes in any one stat (except, maybe, blocked shots). In his prime, I'd be looking for 22-25 PPG and 12-13 RPG. With 3-4 BPG and a lot of altered shots per game. Those stats, with top-notch defense, would make him an inner circle Hall of Famer if he had a normal length career and doesn't miss too many games per season to injury.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Wasn't there only like 12 teams or something back then? I am not sure, just asking.

8 or 9 teams for most of the Russell era.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

It's funny to look at some guys listed as Cs back then who are about Darius Miles' size, basically.

Including Bill Russell.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Yeah and only 2 centers. It was him and Wilt mainly. I think the NBA average size was like 6'5" or something. I know it's a lot shorter than it is now.

Wrong. With only 7 or 8 other teams in the league, Wilt and Russell were much more likely to play against a future hall of famer on any given night than in the post expansion era with 30 teams and 3 or 4 (or fewer) good centers.

Back, then, over half the teams in the league had a future hall of famer starting at center. In addition to Wilt and Russell, there was Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, and eventually Kareem. So, not only did Wilt and Russell go head to head 10 - 12 times during the regular season, they also went against another future hall of fame center in more than half their games.

Unlike when Shaq was in his prime and the second best center in the league didn't even average double digits in scoring (i.e. 2nd team All-NBA Center - 2000-01 Dikembe Mutombo 8.1 PPG, 2002-03 Ben Wallace 6.9 PPG, 2003-04 Ben Wallace 9.5 PPG, 2005-06 Ben Wallace 7.3 PPG) or in some years where they gave up trying to find a center worthy of 2nd team All-NBA and just went with a power forward instead at that spot (2001-02 2nd team All-NBA center - Dirk Nowitski). That's how void of talent the center spot was during the prime of Shaq's career. During his prime, he rarely had to play against a future hall of famer and on most nights he was guarding a guy who couldn't even score 10 points on a regular basis.

In addition to the 1960s, the period from the mid-1980s to the mid-1990s was a great time for big men. That period saw late career Kareem, early career Shaq, plus Hakeem, Ewing and David Robinson all in their primes, plus guys like Moses Malone, Robert Parish and early career Alonzo Morning.

With centers like Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, Greg Oden and Yao Ming (when healthy) and other decent bigs like Brook Lopez, Chris Kaman, Joakim Noah, etc. it looks like the quality of center play is once again on the upswing. I just wish the NBA would let these guys play. I love watching dominant big men play the game of basketball - especially head-to-head. The game suffers when it's giants of the paint are sitting on the bench after picking up ridiculous "touch" fouls for holding their ground and being battered by out of control guards whose main goal is to initiate contact to "draw" a foul.

BNM

 

[Deebag]

Bynum strikes me as a Zach Randolph more than anything. Scores and rebounds well, doesn't pass much, has to be asked to play defense. Dwight Howard seems like there is a low ceiling for his offensive game.

 

[KingSpeed]

Unlike when Shaq was in his prime and the second best center in the league didn't even average double digits in scoring (i.e. 2nd team All-NBA Center - 2000-01 Dikembe Mutombo 8.1 PPG, 2002-03 Ben Wallace 6.9 PPG, 2003-04 Ben Wallace 9.5 PPG, 2005-06 Ben Wallace 7.3 PPG)

What about David Robinson?- 17 ppg, 14 ppg, 12 ppg in 99-00, 00-01, & 01-02

Mutombo and Ben Wallace were great defensive centers that didn't score much, yes, but there were centers in the league who scored in double figures.

 

[KingSpeed]

BASKETBALL REFERENCE

I realistically think Oden could have a career average of 15 points, 15 boards and 3 blocks a game. Would that make him a "once in a lifetime center"?

If he's gonna do that, he'd better get busy. His current averages are 9, 7, & 1.

 

[alex42083]

If he's gonna do that, he'd better get busy. His current averages are 9, 7, & 1.

haha.. he's played 70 total NBA games. He's got a LONG TIME to get busy and get those numbers up.

 

[KingSpeed]

He doesn't need to do it as effective as Russ did it. He just needs to do it as effective as the admiral did it.

DRob's second season in the NBA: 25.6 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 2.5 apg, 1.5 spg, 3.9 bpg

Oden's second season in the NBA: everyone freaks out when he finally gets 18/11 (against the Timberwolves)

Just keeping things in perspective.

 

[KingSpeed]

haha.. he's played 70 total NBA games. .

Out of a total of 246.

 

[alex42083]

The Admiral was 25 years old in his second season.
Greg Oden is 21.