Black Friday?

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it's_GO_time said:
I was wondering why you kept posting how the dow was going lower and then you stopped when the dow started going up again.

And you are saying teh president needs to be more positive, but you are being extremely negative about the future. Are you suggesting the president should lie to us . . . because the Bush days are over.
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The new President has already lied...repeatedly and about multiple things.
 
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The problem with the USA is as Americans we dont stand up for ourselves. We sit back and complain until we are screwed. Yes I wanted Obama in office but he has changed his role since being there and until we come together and actually stand up for ourselves we will continue the path of counting on someone else to fix things which will never happen in a corporate world.
 
PapaG said:
I can't wait for the inflation that is sure to start surfacing later this year.
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Inflation?

The whole mess we are in is from fear of Deflation. Banks are scared to loan money on assets that will be worth less tomorrow then they are worth today.
 
Blazerfan22 said:
The problem with the USA is as Americans we dont stand up for ourselves. We sit back and complain until we are screwed. Yes I wanted Obama in office but he has changed his role since being there and until we come together and actually stand up for ourselves we will continue the path of counting on someone else to fix things which will never happen in a corporate world.
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Bingo!

It is foolish to think that a single person or group of people (president and government) can fix and create economies. We need to be able to stand up for ourselves. It is interesting that so many people are opposed to the details of the bailouts, mortgage bills, etc... but they keep getting signed and passed. I don't feel that our representatives are doing a very good job representing the people.
 
Black Monday.

-252. Get out now because the new budget is going to be announced later this week.
 
March is off to a rip-roaring start for the markets. DJIA down below 7000 for the first time since 1997, -230 for the day after 3 hours of trading.

Good thing we're going to implement cap and trade, dramatically reform healthcare, and nationalize the banks.
 
PapaG said:
Good thing we're going to implement cap and trade, dramatically reform healthcare, and nationalize the banks.
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Hey, all I want is things to be equal and "fair". Who cares if that results in less for everybody, and everybody being equally miserable. At least things are equal! It is about a populist principle, not what is best for the country.
 
I wonder what will happen after this mortgage scam is passed. Nothing like paying other peoples' bills when you can barely pay your own.
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The principal of this really bothers me...Why are taxpayers bailing out those who cannot afford thier mortgages? This is how those who struggle to meet thier financial obligatons and those who showed financial restraint are rewarded? You know the 95%+ of people who pay thier mortgages on time.

I listened to some of the financial people talking on TV and they were saying that...even at a 2% mortgage rate that 40% of the people in trouble with thier mortgages STILL couldn't afford them...

That is ridiculous....

I still don't understand why an across the board mortgage rate cut...down to 3% or so...isn't being considered? Give EVERYONE the chance to refinance, even those who are making thier mortgage payments...and many of whom are struggling to do so...

Federal budget is 25% of GDP today....Is anyone else not concerned with this percentage growing higher as each year passes? Does no one else see the inevitable problems this causes?
 
Blaze01 said:
The principal of this really bothers me...Why are taxpayers bailing out those who cannot afford thier mortgages? This is how those who struggle to meet thier financial obligatons and those who showed financial restraint are rewarded? You know the 95%+ of people who pay thier mortgages on time.
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I agree. The principle here really, really bothers me.

But, you know how people with the mindset like Obama justify it? They are "only" going to raise the taxes on people making over $200k.

It doesn't change the principle, it just gets more people to be OK with the idea and justify it because only a small percentage of people will actually have to pay for it.
 
PapaG said:
Why isn't the President trying to calm the fears of investors? He's been silent all week as it is crashing.
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Do you need someone to hold your hand and tell you everything will be alright?

The market is still ridiculously over-valued and needs to crash and crash hard to pre-Bush levels.

I'll lose no sleep over people losing riches they basically stole in the first place.
 
i got a letter from my bank saying they were increasing all the rates on their credit cards. Should interest rates be falling. I mean if i'm trying to pay down my debts at 6% interest why would i do any better paying it down at 9.99% interest. And I haven't missed a payment, goodness knows if I did they'd jack it up to 27% interest. Its just crazy. There should be laws against this.
 
VivaRipCity said:
i got a letter from my bank saying they were increasing all the rates on their credit cards. Should interest rates be falling. I mean if i'm trying to pay down my debts at 6% interest why would i do any better paying it down at 9.99% interest. And I haven't missed a payment, goodness knows if I did they'd jack it up to 27% interest. Its just crazy. There should be laws against this.
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It's because they have some power now. Credit is going to be a lot tighter, so there's less risk you'll drop their card for another one. With the economy shrinking, the repayment risk went up. Most of all, they need to find a profit center with mortgage volume down, so personal credit seems to be the easiest way to do it.
 
MARIS61 said:
Do you need someone to hold your hand and tell you everything will be alright?

The market is still ridiculously over-valued and needs to crash and crash hard to pre-Bush levels.

I'll lose no sleep over people losing riches they basically stole in the first place.
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Good for you. Meanwhile, hardworking people are seeing their saved retirement being cut in half, and your beloved Bend, OR has one of the highest foreclosure rates in the country right now.

As for your first sentence, I'm only pointing out reality. You are the one hoping for failure.
 
VivaRipCity said:
i got a letter from my bank saying they were increasing all the rates on their credit cards. Should interest rates be falling. I mean if i'm trying to pay down my debts at 6% interest why would i do any better paying it down at 9.99% interest. And I haven't missed a payment, goodness knows if I did they'd jack it up to 27% interest. Its just crazy. There should be laws against this.
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Don't pay off your debts, or at the very least just pay the minimum. We haven't even seen the beginning of inflation yet, and with the spending of money we don't have, that is a given within the next year. There is no need to save at this point in time.
 
PapaG said:
Good for you. Meanwhile, hardworking people are seeing their saved retirement being cut in half, and your beloved Bend, OR has one of the highest foreclosure rates in the country right now.
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There are hard working people losing their homes, but your attitude seems to be so what, they got themselves into it.

Shouldn't it be the same attitude with the stock market? No one forced "hardworking people" to invest in the stock market. They (including myself) choose to put money into the stock market, knowing the risks. If the stock market collapses, I will balme no one but myself for losing my saving in an investment vehicle I didn't take the time to fully understand.
 
it's_GO_time said:
There are hard working people losing their homes, but your attitude seems to be so what, they got themselves into it.

Shouldn't it be the same attitude with the stock market? No one forced "hardworking people" to invest in the stock market. They (including myself) choose to put money into the stock market, knowing the risks. If the stock market collapses, I will balme no one but myself for losing my saving in an investment vehicle I didn't take the time to fully understand.
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No one is offering a 401k bailout, are they? So the same people being asked to pay for the mortgages of deadbeats are now losing significant portions of their future security. All of this before the upcoming period of inflation, too. Fun times ahead (sarcasm).
 
PapaG said:
No one is offering a 401k bailout, are they? So the same people being asked to pay for the mortgages of deadbeats are now losing significant portions of their future security. All of this before the upcoming period of inflation, too. Fun times ahead (sarcasm).
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Well in a way people are asking for a 401K bailout . . . that is the whole financial bailout. The financial industry is killing the market. In fact AIG just yesterday asked for more gov't funds and the associated drop in the market was attributed in part to the AIG situation.

So these bailouts are about trying getting the economy back on track, which would result in a stock market increase.
 
it's_GO_time said:
Well in a way people are asking for a 401K bailout . . . that is the whole financial bailout. The financial industry is killing the market. In fact AIG just yesterday asked for more gov't funds and the associated drop in the market was attributed in part to the AIG situation.

So these bailouts are about trying getting the economy back on track, which would result in a stock market increase.
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Actually, all that is happening is that large investors are dumping stock for treasury bills, while the average 401k investor is locked into the market. Basically, we are seeing a massive movement of money from the private sector to the government. An absolutely brilliant takeover of the US economy in a matter of months. Staggering, actually. The rich get richer, and the rest of us are screwed. Meanwhile, DC is more interested in lambasting nobodies like Rush Limbaugh to avert attention away from an unprecedented finanicial situation.

I look forward to our conversations on this over the next few years, KMD.
 
PapaG said:
Actually, all that is happening is that large investors are dumping stock for treasury bills, while the average 401k investor is locked into the market. Basically, we are seeing a massive movement of money from the private sector to the government. An absolutely brilliant takeover of the US economy in a matter of months. Staggering, actually. The rich get richer, and the rest of us are screwed. Meanwhile, DC is more interested in lambasting nobodies like Rush Limbaugh to avert attention away from an unprecedented finanicial situation.

I look forward to our conversations on this over the next few years, KMD.
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Don't worry, Obama will put an end to that.


Why is the 401K investor locked into the market . . . I can call on my 401K and have the money moved out of the market within 24 hours.

I'll watch and talk about the stock market over the next few years . . . but I don't claim to be an expert on the stock market or the economy.
 
it's_GO_time said:
Don't worry, Obama will put an end to that.


Why is the 401K investor locked into the market . . . I can call on my 401K and have the money moved out of the market within 24 hours.
I'll watch and talk about the stock market over the next few years . . . but I don't claim to be an expert on the stock market or the economy.
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What would you move it to? Plus, many people pay a penalty or a fee for such a move.
 
PapaG said:
What would you move it to? Plus, many people pay a penalty or a fee for such a move.
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About 3 months ago I sold a couple of my bigger mutual funds and put them into a money market. I didn't pay a penalty, but I'm not familiar with all the different 401K programs out there.

I could see how practically speaking, one would feel they can't move out of the stock market given that it is at a 12 year low or something like that, but I'm pretty sure most can choose what they invest in.
 
it's_GO_time said:
About 3 months ago I sold a couple of my bigger mutual funds and put them into a money market. I didn't pay a penalty, but I'm not familiar with all the different 401K programs out there.

I could see how practically speaking, one would feel they can't move out of the stock market given that it is at a 12 year low or something like that, but I'm pretty sure most can choose what they invest in.
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Mutual funds aren't 401ks. You can't just take out 401k money and transfer it to a T-bill without paying taxes and penalties.
 
PapaG said:
Mutual funds aren't 401ks. You can't just take out 401k money and transfer it to a T-bill without paying taxes and penalties.
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Well shows what I don't know.

I'm so clueless about my money . . . I know that a certain percentage is taken out each month into what I considered a 401K (company matches 3%). I go through Atena and can tell them where I want the money to go (ie mutal funds, bonds, money market).

I commonly refer to that as my 401K . . . but maybe it is defered compensation or something else. All I know is it is it doesn't get taxed, the company matches and I can move the money around but not withdraw on it (I can do some kind of loan to myself but haven't gone there yet).

My attitude is I can't personally do anything about the economy, so I will just put my head down, keep on working and try not to spend too much money. I know it simplistic, but really what else can I do?
 
it's_GO_time said:
Well shows what I don't know.

I'm so clueless about my money . . . I know that a certain percentage is taken out each month into what I considered a 401K (company matches 3%). I go through Atena and can tell them where I want the money to go (ie mutal funds, bonds, money market).

I commonly refer to that as my 401K . . . but maybe it is defered compensation or something else. All I know is it is it doesn't get taxed, the company matches and I can move the money around but not withdraw on it (I can do some kind of loan to myself but haven't gone there yet).
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Sounds like a 401(k) to me.

barfo
 
PapaG said:
Me too. I can't throw all of mine into a T-bill, however.
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He said money market, not T-bill, though.

You don't have any options other than stocks? That's kind of a lousy setup.

barfo
 
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