Blake vs Miller December stats

[SpanishFly]

These are from TbPup on another board - they make me physically ill!





"Enough is enough!

New postby TBpup on Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:54 am
I know this has been debated ad nauseum but this is just bordering in the rediculous. There has to be an answer but we as a fan base, there is no way we are not getting the whole story. At some point, it is either just plain stubborness or lack of coaching acumen.

Miami
Blake - 9 points, 3 assists, 1 reb, 3-6 FG, (24 mins)
Miller- 18 points, 6 assists 3 reb, 4-9 FG, 10-12 FT (31 mins)

Houston
Blake ----3 points, 3 assists, 0 rebounds, 1-6 FG (28 mins)
Miller---24 points, 3 assists, 3 rebounds, 9-14 FG, 5-7 FT (25 mins)

New York
Blake -- 9 points, 4 assists, 5 rebounds, 4-8 FG, 1-2 FT (38 mins)
Miller - 4 points, 2 assists, 2 rebounds, 2-6 FG (26 mins)

Indiana
Blake -- 6 points, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 2-7 FG (39 mins)
Miller - 15 points, 2 assists, 1 rebound, 5-12 FG, 3-4 FT (25 mins)

Cleveland
Blake --- 0 points, 8 assists, 3 rebounds, 0-4 FG, (36 mins)
Miller - 20 points, 3 assists, 6 rebounds, 8-13 FG, 2-2 FT (32 mins)

So far in December:
Blake --- 5.4 ppg, 4.8 apg, 2.4 rpg, .323 FG%, .500 FT% (1 freakin FT) in 33 mpg.
Miller - 16.2 ppg, 3.2 apg, 3.0 rpg, .519 FG%, .800 FT% (20-25 FTs) in 27.8 mpg.

The disparity is alarming and if put into equal minutes played, would just get ugly. Blake does average an additional 1.6 assists per game but his season average is still below Miller's. And for Nate saying it provides a better fit because he can stretch the defense, at .323 FG% shooting he isn't stretching so much as a rubber band let along the defense. Miller is actually the one who has started to hit a few 3's lately.

I quess my question is, how bad does Blake have to play or how well does Andre have to play before a change is made? Neither is good defensively so that part is a wash.

Either this is just a mandate from Nate, a strong suggestion from Roy or just plain stubborn stupidity. It's not that Blake shouldn't be playing, but why so many damned minutes and why not give some of that time to Bayless?

The photos that Blakey must have on someone... "

 

[PapaG]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Miller 16 pts/3 assists

Looks like Nate has him at the right spot. Back-up SG seems to be where he's been his most productive. Now that he doesn't have to distribute, he's become an asset for the team off of the bench.

 

[illmatic99]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Miller is shooting better from 3pt land this month, as well.

 

[RoyToy]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Single-digit PER

Thanks McMillan

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Miller 16 pts/3 assists

Looks like Nate has him at the right spot. Back-up SG seems to be where he's been his most productive. Now that he doesn't have to distribute, he's become an asset for the team off of the bench.

Yet, even if we pretend basketball didn't exist prior to this season and we can only use this season's numbers, Miller is averaging more assists per game than Blake, despite playing fewer minutes.

And, if this season is all that counts, Blake can't even hit threes at high efficiency, which is supposed to be his main value to this team.

Miller is averaging about 6 assists per 36 minutes, and a 28.2% Assist Rate. BLANKY is averaging 5 assists per 36 minutes, and a 21.9% Assist Rate.

So, the numbers seem to suggest that Miller should be playing at least 36 minutes as the starting point guard and BLANKY should be a reserve who can play at either position.

If we consider past seasons, Miller has always been more productive than Blake, as a passer and scorer.

 

[Public Defender]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Those of you who saw the fourth quarter of the Cleveland game - was Miller out there? I know he hit a couple of three's earlier in the game, and Blake obviously was pretty useless. In a tight contest late in the game, I would've hoped for a Miller-Roy-Webster-Aldridge-Przybilla lineup, but is that what we got? (and if Cunningham was in, instead of Webster, that's OK, too...)

 

[julius]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

It might be time to see what kind of backup role player Blake can be, instead of a starting role player.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Let's say for the sake of argument that Steve Blake is somehow a great defensive player and a Steve Battier "no stats all-star" type player -- which seems like a bit of a stretch -- usually those kinds of guys can at least play the sniper role hitting the outlet 3 from the corner or the wing at around 38%+

I just have to wonder, how many coaches in the NBA would continue to trot a guy out there for 38, 36, 40 minutes a night when there are a couple of potentially more productive options on the bench? Especially a team seemingly so starved for scoring. Is the net point differential between his defense and his offense really this good? I just can't see it.

Whatever, nothing is going to change while this coaching staff is in place, I'm convinced of that. Miller and/or Bayless will be moved and we'll probably be talking about why this team still doesn't have an adequate point guard in the starting lineup a year from now and we'll still be wondering if Brandon can ever play off the ball well enough for this team to put more than just roleplayers next to him in the backcourt. Bleh.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

"Patience, we're a family here" -- Kevin Pritchard

Blake is going nowhere, unfortunately.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

"Patience, we're a family here" -- Kevin Pritchard

Blake is going nowhere, unfortunately.

When did he say this? Recently? (Good lord)

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Not exactly a direct quote.

I just took a page out of the 'Kevin Pritchard's corny, cream puff, book of cliché answers"

 

[Natebishop3]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

But Blake is a lockdown defender.... look what he did to Aaron Brooks!

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

But Blake is a lockdown defender.... look what he did to Aaron Brooks!

[/KingSpeed]

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

I want Miller to start but I do have one big complaint about him on defense. He needs to do a better job stepping in front of bigs that cut to the hoop. Happened countless times last night.

 

[LameR]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Anybody want to throw Bayless in to that comparison?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Anybody want to throw Bayless in to that comparison?

No. Because it's even more depressing to think about.

 

[illmatic99]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Anybody want to throw Bayless in to that comparison?

Bayless:

13 minutes, 7.2pts, 1.1ast, 1.0reb, 61%fg, 82%FT (14-17)

 

[Wheels]

alarming.. thats all I can say.

 

[BenDavis503]

Yikes

 

[The Sebastian Express]

You can't even facepalm at this anymore. It's at the point of crying because our coaching staff is horrendous and possible liars with their training camp mantra of earning minutes, or laughing because you don't want to seem weak for crying.

 

[roydezlaw]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

I want Miller to start but I do have one big complaint about him on defense. He needs to do a better job stepping in front of bigs that cut to the hoop. Happened countless times last night.

That's right. Our smalls need to stop penetrating bigs and our bigs need to stop penetrating smalls. Is it as confusing for them as it is for me? Aldridge looked like a good trailer on some of those Varejao baskets.

I do agree with you. We need better team defense because man to man sucks.

 

[Nikolokolus]

This should make it easier to compare the three
http://www.basketball-reference.com...010&p2=bayleje01&y2=2010&p3=millean02&y3=2010

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Look, it's patently obvious that Blake is played because
1. He does what he's told
2. He gets out of Roy's way
3. He plays defense better than any other guard on the roster. (This is BAD, because he's not a top tier defender. Nonetheless, it is true, as seen in that Synergy analysis.)

Want Blake to play less? Teach the other guards to play defense. That's it.

Blake and Outlaw for Hinrich REALLY needs revisiting. (Then Bayless would get minutes because Hinrich's always injured.)

 

[PapaG]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Miller is averaging about 6 assists per 36 minutes, and a 28.2% Assist Rate. BLANKY is averaging 5 assists per 36 minutes, and a 21.9% Assist Rate..

Miller has the ball in his hands a lot more than Blake does. I'm trying to understand your point, but I can't. If the idea was the Miller was going to distribute the ball as the primary ball handler, then that has not happened. In fact, Blake is putting up nearly the same assists/36 as the secondary ball handler.

So, if Miller is more efficient creating his own shot, and is helping the team in doing so, then what is the problem? Let him play well as the back-up SG/hybrid.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

But Blake is a lockdown defender.... look what he did to Aaron Brooks!

I wish you'd use hyperbole more often. It seems to be your thing.

 

[SpanishFly]

Look, it's patently obvious that Blake is played because
1. He does what he's told
2. He gets out of Roy's way
3. He plays defense better than any other guard on the roster. (This is BAD, because he's not a top tier defender. Nonetheless, it is true, as seen in that Synergy analysis.)

Want Blake to play less? Teach the other guards to play defense. That's it.

Blake and Outlaw for Hinrich REALLY needs revisiting. (Then Bayless would get minutes because Hinrich's always injured.)

Hinrich is shooting 34%,, 29% fro 3, yes THIRTY FOUR% this yr, a couple % worse than Blakey, I say no thx with his bloated contract! Are you kiddin me?

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Blave vs Miller December stats

Miller has the ball in his hands a lot more than Blake does. I'm trying to understand your point, but I can't. If the idea was the Miller was going to distribute the ball as the primary ball handler, then that has not happened. In fact, Blake is putting up nearly the same assists/36 as the secondary ball handler.

So, if Miller is more efficient creating his own shot, and is helping the team in doing so, then what is the problem? Let him play well as the back-up SG/hybrid.

Miller is more efficient at both scoring and passing. The Assist Rate shows that more of Miller's possessions used result in an assist than Blake's possessions used. Blake is the one playing more like a reserve combo guard. Let Miller play well as a starting guard, since he's the second-best guard on the team. Let him play 35-40 minutes, play with Roy and let these two talented players figure it out. On-court chemistry only happens when players play together for a while and figure out how best to play off each other.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Simple question: do people think we'd win more if Blake's minutes were taken by Miller or Bayless? If so, on what basis?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Simple question: do people think we'd win more if Blake's minutes were taken by Miller or Bayless? If so, on what basis?

I'm just going to go with "gut instinct"

 

[Minstrel]

Simple question: do people think we'd win more if Blake's minutes were taken by Miller or Bayless? If so, on what basis?

I think they'd be a better team and thus win more, on the basis of Miller having been a better player throughout his career and Bayless both being a high-caliber prospect and having outperformed Blake this season.

Obviously, what one thinks of Bayless is speculative as he hasn't proven anything yet over a meaningful sample. But his prospect pedigree combined with his good play so far this season leads me to believe that he has an attainable-this-season upside above Blake's current level.

If the Blazers were a title contender right now, I might value Blake's certainty as not a game-loser over Bayless' possible downside to go with his upside, in the reserve role. Since this season is lost in terms of title contention, I'd rather play the guy with the higher upside to see what he can be counted on for next season, presumably a title contention season.