Blake

[Rastapopoulos]

I'd take Mike Bibby or Ramon Sessions

1. Really? I guess I don't mind Bibby, although he certainly wasn't looking great in Sacto and his defense and athleticism would certainly make us miss Blake, but if Sessions can't get minutes behind Luke Ridnour I have to wonder about his value.
2. How do you know we'd get them?
3. Bayless is not now, and never will be, a PG. Essentially keeping Bayless means Roy is the PG, and I don't think that's really the best way to use him.

 

[hasoos]

Evidence?

Besides, isn't Kobe Bryant a quitter? Remember when he got told he was shooting too much so he refused to shoot at all in a blowout loss? Remember when Scottie Pippen sat out because Kukoc got the call?

(Not that I'd ever want Bryant on my team, for other reasons, but I understand the Lakers fans are reasonably pleased with him.)

What FA are we going to get that's better?

Evidence? Every year Baron Davis has been that is losing and has fleeting at best playoff hopes he has come up with an prolonged injury to keep him from playing.

Evidence? Byron Scott jumped at the chance to draft Chris Paul and get rid of Baron Davis. The reason? He was a quitter. He wanted to take breaks in the middle of the season.(Much like the break he took last year in Golden State, which cost them the chance to make the playoffs.)

 

[Nikolokolus]

1. Really? I guess I don't mind Bibby, although he certainly wasn't looking great in Sacto and his defense and athleticism would certainly make us miss Blake, but if Sessions can't get minutes behind Luke Ridnour I have to wonder about his value.

As for Sessions playing behind Ridnour, I don't follow the Bucks, so I don't know why Skiles isn't playing him more, but I do know that he was averaging 16/6 in November and then suddenly had his PT cut. His PER is still 17, so he's still producing in half the minutes he had before.

2. How do you know we'd get them?

I don't, but what makes you think Davis is available for trade?

3. Bayless is not now, and never will be, a PG. Essentially keeping Bayless means Roy is the PG, and I don't think that's really the best way to use him.

The same criticism could have been leveled at Terry Porter and that seemed to have worked out OK

But I have to ask, do you make all of your judgments about rookies after 270ish minutes of playing time? I concede Bayless will never be a pure passing point guard in the mold of Nash or Kidd, but does Blake really play the role of a pure passing point guard paired up with Brandon and how has that worked out?

Regardless of his role on the offensive end, he's already shown a clear ability to guard 1s, and if he can at least develop into a decent setup man I'll take his aggressiveness on defense, ability to finish in the lane and run the break any day as this team's "point" guard.

 

[alex42083]

No reason at all to play Blake tonight. Sergio has actually been playing very well recently, and Bayless can provide enough off the bench.

Agreed. If Blake still feels pain when shooting from long distances, why bother playing him. Don't rush him back and have him get hurt again like Martell did.
I guess he could suit up for emergency purposes.

 

[LittleAlex]

Wow. Why all the Blake hate?

Anyone who thinks he isn't absolutely vital to our success just needs to take a look at our assists, turnovers and three-point shooting since he went down.

I know we would have beaten Charlotte with him, and you could make a pretty strong argument that we could have beaten Cleveland with him.

I would like to see him get some rest tonight and potentially on Wednesday so he's healthy for the game vs. Utah. There's no reason we should drop tonight's game or Wednesday's game, even without Blake.

-Pop

How do you figure we beat Cleveland with Blake? We would go the line fewer times and take more bad outside shots. Perhaps if he was hitting more 3's he would make up for his complete lack at the charity stripe, but that is pretty iffy proposition.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The same criticism could have been leveled at Terry Porter

Only by someone blind.

But I have to ask, do you make all of your judgments about rookies after 270ish minutes of playing time?

No, much sooner than that.

I concede Bayless will never be a pure passing point guard in the mold of Nash or Kidd

Wise concession.

but does Blake really play the role of a pure passing point guard paired up with Brandon and how has that worked out?

No to your first question, and badly in my opinion, as I made clear in the earlier post in this thread.

Regardless of his role on the offensive end, he's already shown a clear ability to guard 1s

This does seem to be the received opinion, but it's not mine. He's a good defender like Sasha Vujacic is a good defender - i.e. scrambles around a lot without much effect.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Terry Porter played power forward at Wisconsin Stevens-Point.

 

[Nikolokolus]

But I have to ask, do you make all of your judgments about rookies after 270ish minutes of playing time?

No, much sooner than that.

That's all I need to know about your ability to evaluate young players.

 

[hasoos]

Ok so I went and did some 3 point analysis from the the team. It is hard to compare the teams with Steve Blake on the floor to without Steve Blake on the floor, primarily, because unfortunately, Rudy has been stinking it up from the 3 point line recently(like really stinking it up. Like Peeee-U stinking it up). But here is what I found:


During the games Blake has played so far (approximately 39 at my count, since I believe he missed 5 games so far in this stretch) he has averaged taking 4.84 3 pointers per game, and made, 2.1 3 pointers per game.

During the 5 games he has been out:

Rodriguez has averaged 2.5 3 point attempts per game and made 0.8 per game.

Bayless has averaged 0.4 3-point attempts per game and averaged 0.2 made per game. The facts are, in most games Bayless does not even attempt a 3 pointer.

So have we lost production at the 3 point line? Yes we have. It is fairly clear that Blake is a superior producer from the 3 point line, but I think we all knew that, it was one of the strengths of his game.

The question I have, does that make it necessarily better? Bayless knows he can get to the cup pretty much at will, and Sergio prefers to drive and dish, which leads to points in the paint. IMO points in the paint determine your chances of winning much more than points from (or lack there of) from the perimeter. Mileage from others opinions may differ!

 

[LittleAlex]

The one thing I can't forget about was a stat posted in another thread about Blake's free throw attempts. IIRC Blake had 47 on the year, while averaging some 34 minutes a game. That is very, very bad. So bad, in fact, it should overshadow every other thing that can be said about him. It means that Blake puts almost no pressure on the opponents defense and is an extremely passive point guard. Why would this be desirable? Agressive play gets rewarded, passive play does not.

An excellent example came in the Cleveland game. At one point in the game, Bayless was able to draw 3 fouls against Mo Williams within a few minutes, bringing his total to 5 with 4 minutes left in the game. Bayless got pulled from the game and Mo never got his 6th foul. I firmly believe that if the team had made an effort to get Mo out of the game, they would have won. But with Sergio not being aggressive, they got beat. I don't think this would have gone any differently if Blake had been in instead of Sergio. Blakes free throw stats prove this to be true.

 

[Nikolokolus]

The one thing I can't forget about was a stat posted in another thread about Blake's free throw attempts. IIRC Blake had 47 on the year, while averaging some 34 minutes a game. That is very, very bad. So bad, in fact, it should overshadow every other thing that can be said about him. It means that Blake puts almost no pressure on the opponents defense and is an extremely passive point guard. Why would this be desirable? Agressive play gets rewarded, passive play does not.

An excellent example came in the Cleveland game. At one point in the game, Bayless was able to draw 3 fouls against Mo Williams within a few minutes, bringing his total to 5 with 4 minutes left in the game. Bayless got pulled from the game and Mo never got his 6th foul. I firmly believe that if the team had made an effort to get Mo out of the game, they would have won. But with Sergio not being aggressive, they got beat. I don't think this would have gone any differently if Blake had been in instead of Sergio. Blakes free throw stats prove this to be true.

I agree that Blake's low risk/low reward style of play is probably not conducive to him being the answer at starter, but as far as a backup goes, he reminds me of Joel (and not just because he's a white dude with shaved head) in that he's probably the ideal backup type player for his position, but when placed into a starting role he's just not dynamic enough or doesn't possess a balanced enough game to hang with the opposition.

My feeling is that it's really going to boil down to KP picking between Blake or Sergio this off-season, and Bayless pushing for the starter's spot by at least sometime next January regardless of which guy is retained.

 

[MARIS61]

I think Blake should take another month to rest up, while Sergio and Bayless get some time.

Roy should play under 30 a game so he can heal.

 

[SodaPopinski]

I think Blake should take another month to rest up, while Sergio and Bayless get some time.

Roy should play under 30 a game so he can heal.

I seriously hope you are joking. What's the point of doing this if it is going to cost us games? I could conceivably see your line of thinking if we wanted these guys at 100% for the playoffs, but if sitting them costs you the playoff berth, what's the point?

-Pop

 

[hasoos]

I seriously hope you are joking. What's the point of doing this if it is going to cost us games? I could conceivably see your line of thinking if we wanted these guys at 100% for the playoffs, but if sitting them costs you the playoff berth, what's the point?

-Pop

At the same time, what makes you think sitting Blake hurts the team at all? They were 3 and 2 in their last 5. They were 3 and 2 in their previous 5 before that with Blake. What were they in the previous 5? 3 and 2. Before that? 2 and 3.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Terry Porter played power forward at Wisconsin Stevens-Point.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about what he played for the Blazers. You know, when he averaged nearly double digit assists?

I bet he played center for his middle school team.

 

[PapaG]

Yippeee throw a party, that means absolutely nothing.

Wow

 

[Rastapopoulos]

That's all I need to know about your ability to evaluate young players.

I'm incredibly quick on the uptake?

 

[PapaG]

Ok so I went and did some 3 point analysis from the the team. It is hard to compare the teams with Steve Blake on the floor to without Steve Blake on the floor, primarily, because unfortunately, Rudy has been stinking it up from the 3 point line recently(like really stinking it up. Like Peeee-U stinking it up). But here is what I found:

During the games Blake has played so far (approximately 39 at my count, since I believe he missed 5 games so far in this stretch) he has averaged taking 4.84 3 pointers per game, and made, 2.1 3 pointers per game.

During the 5 games he has been out:

Rodriguez has averaged 2.5 3 point attempts per game and made 0.8 per game.

Bayless has averaged 0.4 3-point attempts per game and averaged 0.2 made per game. The facts are, in most games Bayless does not even attempt a 3 pointer.

So have we lost production at the 3 point line? Yes we have. It is fairly clear that Blake is a superior producer from the 3 point line, but I think we all knew that, it was one of the strengths of his game.

The question I have, does that make it necessarily better? Bayless knows he can get to the cup pretty much at will, and Sergio prefers to drive and dish, which leads to points in the paint. IMO points in the paint determine your chances of winning much more than points from (or lack there of) from the perimeter. Mileage from others opinions may differ!

So your research is either worthless or tainted. Which is it?