Blazers East ...errr.. Your Indiana Pacers!

[Everything Beagle]

I guess that makes the Timberwolves the Blazers West?

 

[Everything Beagle]

100% agree... Oden was the consensus, both inside front offices and across the general public.

And taking Durant at #1 would have given us a very different Durant. He’s said many times that being picked second is what drove him to succeed.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

And taking Durant at #1 would have given us a very different Durant. He’s said many times that being picked second is what drove him to succeed.

However, as has been said recently, the greats always find something to motivate them.

 

[beast blazer]

Kevin Pritchard didn't really do much for Portland. People associate him with fond memories of Brandon Roy, but he didn't select Brandon Roy.

His first act as GM was taking Greg Oden. He traded Zach Randolph for shit. Traded a good backup PG for Bayless

The only good moves he made was signing Andre Miller and drafting Batum. None of his other picks amounted anything.

Look at ever transaction he made here. His body of work, overall, is crap.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/pritcke01x.html

 

[wizenheimer]

Kids medical records are sealed. The only thing on Oden's medical record was a broken wrist... Which he played through quite a bit and was very effective.

I don't believe that's true. I think prospects are required to waive their right keep their medical records private. IIRC the records are submitted to team doctors and the doctors provide a prognosis summary to the team's front office

 

[wizenheimer]

Kevin Pritchard didn't really do much for Portland. People associate him with fond memories of Brandon Roy, but he didn't select Brandon Roy.

His first act as GM was taking Greg Oden. He traded Zach Randolph for shit. Traded a good backup PG for Bayless

The only good moves he made was signing Andre Miller and drafting Batum. None of his other picks amounted anything.

Look at ever transaction he made here. His body of work, overall, is crap.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/pritcke01x.html

KP sure tried to take all the credit for the 2006 draft, and that kind of set in among Blazer fans. But I seem to recall Steve Patterson strongly disputing that KP was the one who made the calls during the 2006 draft. IIRC, Nash was fired as GM about a month before the draft and Patterson was immediately named interim GM; was promoted to official GM 2 or 3 months later.

At the time of that draft, I believe KP was only the director of player personnel

 

[Phatguysrule]

I don't believe that's true. I think prospects are required to waive their right keep their medical records private. IIRC the records are submitted to team doctors and the doctors provide a prognosis summary to the team's front office

That could be true. I'm not sure. But if a doctor signed off on it and didn't think it was a concern... And 8 years later the guy hasn't had injuries and is outrunning and out-testing other elite athletes at a professional combine... It doesn't seem like too much of a reach...

If doctors don't think it's degenerative why would anybody give it a second look?

 

[Phatguysrule]

KP sure tried to take all the credit for the 2006 draft, and that kind of set in among Blazer fans. But I seem to recall Steve Patterson strongly disputing that KP was the one who made the calls during the 2006 draft. IIRC, Nash was fired as GM about a month before the draft and Patterson was immediately named interim GM; was promoted to official GM 2 or 3 months later.

At the time of that draft, I believe KP was only the director of player personnel

The way I remember it, Pritchard was running the draft along with the Orlando Magic's former GM (can't remember his name) who was there in a consulting role.

But I thought Pritchard was rewarded with the GM position on the strength of his performance in the draft room.

I honestly thought it seemed like Patterson was the one trying to take credit he didn't deserve.

I spoke with Patterson quite a few times when I was on the Blazers Fan Advisory board and that definitely seemed like it would be something he'd do. I don't have any experience with Pritchard to know if that's something he would do or not.

 

[wizenheimer]

That could be true. I'm not sure. But if a doctor signed off on it and didn't think it was a concern... And 8 years later the guy hasn't had injuries and is outrunning and out-testing other elite athletes at a professional combine.

If doctors don't think it's degenerative why would anybody give it a second look?

here's what I remember: Portland's team doctors red-flagged one player and yellow flagged another. The rumors were that Brandon Roy (knees) was the one red-flagged, and Oden was the yellow flag. Oden was flagged because of anisomelia (short leg syndrome) and his wrist.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

And taking Durant at #1 would have given us a very different Durant. He’s said many times that being picked second is what drove him to succeed.

I don't buy this, I mean I'm sure Durant used that as motivation and meant what he said, but if he was #1 he just would've used something else as motivation. So even if that part of him was different I don't buy that he would've been less successful on the court.

 

[Phatguysrule]

here's what I remember: Portland's team doctors red-flagged one player and yellow flagged another. The rumors were that Brandon Roy (knees) was the one red-flagged, and Oden was the yellow flag. Oden was flagged because of anisomelia (short leg syndrome) and his wrist.

And that makes sense. Broken wrist that a guy played through being about as much of a worry as a leg being shorter than another (which can be compensated for with an orthotic). Of course, that's just my completely uneducated guess.

I could see holding the medical staff accountable, but it's tough to blame the guy who listened to them.

Jared Sullenger has a leg an inch shorter than the other, and has had a fairly healthy career if not for a broken foot that required surgery, I believe couple of times.

 

[MickZagger]

Lol. Madness.

He completely revamped that Pacers team by making ballsy acquisitions. Way better than any executive we’ve had since.

 

[Whyachi]

https://www.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2007/11/thats_not_a_limp_thats_just_od.html

This was before he played a single game.

eek... old Jason Quick articles.
run away !! run away !! Reading the Oregonian is like getting pelted with livestock from angry Frenchman.

 

[Tince]

KP sure tried to take all the credit for the 2006 draft, and that kind of set in among Blazer fans. But I seem to recall Steve Patterson strongly disputing that KP was the one who made the calls during the 2006 draft. IIRC, Nash was fired as GM about a month before the draft and Patterson was immediately named interim GM; was promoted to official GM 2 or 3 months later.

At the time of that draft, I believe KP was only the director of player personnel

Steve Patterson was a mess with the Blazers and elsewhere. Hard to believe he got anything right, at least on purpose.

 

[kjironman1]

Tatum and Brown need to be on the lookout for whatever voodoo Carlisle is doing.

Same voodoo he used on Brandon Roy.

 

[wizenheimer]

Steve Patterson was a mess with the Blazers and elsewhere. Hard to believe he got anything right, at least on purpose.

probably, but he was the GM during the draft. He may have had input or he may have just signed off on KP's selections. I know that I am not good at guessing the NBA future of college prospects, but as bad as I am, I wanted the Blazers to take Roy (I had seen him play a lot) and Aldridge. That was not a good draft class

There were other decision makers in the office of player personnel and the Blazers had team scouts. But I do remember KP taking all the credit. I also remember him kind of encouraging the pritch-slap nonsense that I imagine rankled other front offices. He did make draft day entertaining; trades galore

 

[Tince]

probably, but he was the GM during the draft. He may have had input or he may have just signed off on KP's selections. I know that I am not good at guessing the NBA future of college prospects, but as bad as I am, I wanted the Blazers to take Roy (I had seen him play a lot) and Aldridge. That was not a good draft class

There were other decision makers in the office of player personnel and the Blazers had team scouts. But I do remember KP taking all the credit. I also remember him kind of encouraging the pritch-slap nonsense that I imagine rankled other front offices. He did make draft day entertaining; trades galore

Your point is well made and I'm not disagreeing. I have no clue who really called the shots. It's similar to the debate on if Olshey deserves the credit for drafting Dame because he was the GM on draft day or if we should give weight to others based on different reporting.

KP was a self-promoter and no doubt he pissed off PA with the Tom Penn negotiation.

 

[Whyachi]

rebuild like the Pacers !!

the Blazers have already crossed a "we give up" tanking threshold that does not resemble anything Indiana did.

Pacers had 1 tanking season. They drafted Mathurin & Nembhard, then went right back to playing competitive basketball.

Previous to that mini tank, you have to dial up 1988 to find a sub .300 Pacers team. They gootched that draft by selecting George McCloud over Tim Hardaway & Shawn Kemp.

 

[Natebishop3]

rebuild like the Pacers !!

the Blazers have already crossed a "we give up" tanking threshold that does not resemble anything Indiana did.

Pacers had 1 tanking season. They drafted Mathurin & Nembhard, then went right back to playing competitive basketball.

Previous to that mini tank, you have to dial up 1988 to find a sub .300 Pacers team. They gootched that draft by selecting George McCloud over Tim Hardaway & Shawn Kemp.

The Pacers converted their superstar into Oladipo and Sabonis. They then flipped Sabonis for Haliburton. The Blazers held onto Dame too long.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The Pacers converted their superstar into Oladipo and Sabonis. They then flipped Sabonis for Haliburton. The Blazers held onto Dame too long.

I always thought the Clippers trade was kind of the end of the building a winner around Dame era - so really we probably should have traded him then. Although he was injured so I'm not sure the return would've been any greater as he came off a great offensive season last summer.

Glad we were able to trade Dame when we did - as all those assets are a heck of a lot better than nothing or what the Wizards got for Beal, etc.

 

[Natebishop3]

I always thought the Clippers trade was kind of the end of the building a winner around Dame era - so really we probably should have traded him then. Although he was injured so I'm not sure the return would've been any greater as he came off a great offensive season last summer.

Glad we were able to trade Dame when we did - as all those assets are a heck of a lot better than nothing or what the Wizards got for Beal, etc.

Oh I agree. I’m glad we got what we got. I just think that if we want to compare rebuilds with the Pacers, we needed to trade Dame back in like 2021.

 

[wizenheimer]

Oh I agree. I’m glad we got what we got. I just think that if we want to compare rebuilds with the Pacers, we needed to trade Dame back in like 2021.

Indiana didn't trade PG13 until after asked to be traded. They didn't trade him proactively without a trade demand

 

[Natebishop3]

Indiana didn't trade PG13 until after asked to be traded. They didn't trade him proactively without a trade demand

And he was a superstar wing.

And he was going to be a free agent.

And he was only 26 when the Pacers traded him.

I get that it wasn't apple to apples, but I'm saying that we waited until much too late in the game to get the kind of haul that Indy got.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

And he was a superstar wing.

And he was going to be a free agent.

And he was only 26 when the Pacers traded him.

I get that it wasn't apple to apples, but I'm saying that we waited until much too late in the game to get the kind of haul that Indy got.

Oladipo and Sabonis doesn't seem like that great of a haul - I mean Sabonis had shot 39% FG and 32% 3's as a rookie with defensive limitations as the #11th pick. Oladipo was more accomplished but has had the worse career since. Jrue has more value now than Oladipo did back then. I'd rank the Dame haul better at the time the trade was done. After the trade Sabonis was worth a lot more, our GS pick is worth more, and Brogdon/Timelord seem to be worth less but there is always a variance in hindsight. The other picks we got could make our haul way more valuable or way less valuable depending on how they turn out.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Honk!

 

[KingSpeed]

GM: Chad Buchanan
President of Basketball Operations: Kevin Pritchard

Uh, ya think maybe Paul blew it on that one? Pritch was the best GM we have had here in 2 decades. Do you think he would have surrounded Dame in his prime years with Alfarouk Aminu and Mo Harkless?

I would very likely still be a season ticket holder if that master bullshitter Olshey and "Chopping Block" Cronin never showed up.

Dame with Aminu/Harkless is the best team we’ve had in almost 25 years. It was getting rid of them while watching Collins and Hood get hurt that did us in.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Dame with Aminu/Harkless is the best team we’ve had in almost 25 years. It was getting rid of them while watching Collins and Hood get hurt that did us in.

Yep. Needed to get Bam and OG instead of Collins...

 

[wizenheimer]

And he was a superstar wing.

And he was going to be a free agent.

And he was only 26 when the Pacers traded him.

I get that it wasn't apple to apples, but I'm saying that we waited until much too late in the game to get the kind of haul that Indy got.

what "haul"?



all they got was Oladipo, arguably coming off his worst season as a pro, and Sabonis who had just finished a rookie season when he averaged under 6 points and 4 rebounds while shooting under 40% on FG's. They didn't get a 1st round pick; they didn't get a 2nd round pick. Just those two players. We know what Sabonis has become now but that was not his value in 2017

 

[Natebishop3]

what "haul"?

View attachment 64658

all they got was Oladipo, arguably coming off his worst season as a pro, and Sabonis who had just finished a rookie season when he averaged under 6 points and 4 rebounds while shooting under 40% on FG's. They didn't get a 1st round pick; they didn't get a 2nd round pick. Just those two players. We know what Sabonis has become now but that was not his value in 2017

Oladipo became a two time Allstar immediately after getting to Indy and Sabonis was also a two time Allstar by his third season in Indy. So either the Pacers got extremely lucky or they knew what they were trading for.

 

[wizenheimer]

Oladipo became a two time Allstar immediately after getting to Indy and Sabonis was also a two time Allstar by his third season in Indy. So either the Pacers got extremely lucky or they knew what they were trading for.

I guess I misunderstood the discussion. I was thinking it was about how Portland could emulate Indy's rebuild. Maybe it was an alternate universe about how Portland could emulate the rebuild if they would have done something that Indy didn't do and that was trade their superstar when he still wanted to be on the team. Indy had offered PG13 extension(s), he refused to sign, AND demanded a trade. Big difference

besides that, Olshey was NEVER going to trade CJ and Dame unless they demanded a trade