Blazers had tried to claim Miles off waiver?!?

[PapaG]

So the NBA is saying that if you waive a player because their independent doctor says he will never play again, and then he makes a comeback, you can't re-sign him!?!? That is crazy.

The other thing that sucks is that at this point, it would have been more advantageous to keep Miles stashed in the D-league so we could keep his contract as a trading piece when it becomes expiring. Instead, his contract will likely go back on our books, but we don't have the rights to trade it to a team needing cap space.

In short, if you take the NBA's independent doctor's advice and cut a player whose career is over, and then the player makes a comeback...you can't get the player back, nor the rights to his contract, but you will still lose cap space??? They need to re-think those rules.

EXACTLY. Also, as posted earlier, where in the CBA does it say that the Blazers could not claim Miles off of waivers. If anyone can point out this language in the agreement, please share it.

 

[PapaG]

the players union was proabaly responsible for this. they understand what the blazers were trying to do by picking him up, and its obvious they wouldn't play him, so the league had to protect their employee.

The league should be protecting THE BLAZERS and PAUL ALLEN, not a member of the PLAYERS' UNION. The fact that they didn't, and apparently just made up a rule in order to not let the Blazers claim Darius, would have me absolutey furious if I owned the team.

This, if true, makes even the email even more understandable. The NBA just made up a rule that will mean millions of more dollars coming out of the Blazers' operating budget. It seems baseless on the surface, doesn't it?

 

[PapaG]

well technically he isn't collecting anything other than whats on his 10 day contract right now. you guys are upset because its affecting your favorite team but imagine if your union stopped protectin you

The general confusion of many fans over this entire Miles situation continues to astonish me.

1) Miles will be paid his full contract by the Blazers regardless of if he plays a little, becomes an All-Star, or takes his dream job at Cold Stone Creamery.

2) With the 'career-ending' designation that isn't reversed, an insurance company pays 80% of the remainder of Miles' salary, while the Blazers pick up the remaining 20%.

3) With the 'career-ending' designation moot, the Blazers, in addition to having to pay the rest of Miles' salary, also pay into the league luxury tax pool. A double whammy, if you will.

4) It also means roughly $9 million less to shop for FAs this off-season, but that has always been secondary to me since I am more business-oriented.

As, I see it, if the NBA did refuse to allow the Blazers to sign Darius, then David Stern is complicit in extracting money from Paul Allen. Let's see how that one goes over with the Vulcans.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Nutterman: I feel like the Happy Gilmore game show host right now after "Puppy Who Lost His Way".

You are thinking of Billy Madison -- great scene though! LoL.

 

[PapaG]

If a team waives someone and recieves cap relief ONLY if he never plays again, then yes, said team should not be able to resign him and control his fate.

I think Miles has a good case in a law suit againt the Blazers organization for that email.

How so? He signed an NBA contract within 24 hours of the email being sent, and in almost two years he has not proven to be anything other than a garbage time player with a bad team.

Teams wouldn't even be messing with him if it weren't for the chance to cripple Portland this off-season and also bank an extra $300k or so in Paul Allen's extra luxury tax payment.

Tell me what case Miles has against the Blazers.

 

[PapaG]

Another thing about the Blazers not being able to claim Miles.

The NBA just screwed a player out of a guaranteed contract for the rest of the season. As it is now, Miles only has a 10-day deal. The Blazers would have had to pay Darius a prorated NBA veteran minimum deal.

Will Billy Hunter file a grievance?

 

[PapaG]

Also, why couldn't the Blazers claim Miles and then package him in a deal to another team, say...MEMPHIS?

If Chris Wallace is so excited to get Miles, he could have him via a trade with Portland.

The more I think about this, the more I think the Blazers will sue the NBA to keep their cap space and their luxury tax money.

Trying to claim Darius off of waivers, and then the league denying a union player a guaranteed contract based on their perceived intent of why the Blazers were making the claim, fits nicely into this scenario.

 

[oldguy]

LA had a heart condition. Say the Blazers' doctor said that there was a good chance that LA would die on the floor if he continued to play ball. Say that diagnosis was confirmed by another doctor, approved by the league, the union and the Blazers. Then the Blazers released him with a medical retirement, ala Miles.

Why wouldn't the Blazers be held harmless if LA either didn't believe the diagnosis, or didn't care if he died on the floor, and signed with another team?

I don't get it.

 

[ucatchtrout]

Is Larry Miller is a liar? He said on John Canzanos show Friday when asked whether they would claim Darius on waivers by saying "no, we wouldn't do that" even though the team had already tried to do exactly that.

audio link
http://www.nba.com/media/blazers/Larry_Miller_on_BFT_1-9-09.mp3" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"

I don't mind that the Blazers tried to pick up Miles off the waiver wire. I do mind if Larry Miller was caught lying about it.

The Blazers president may have been caught in a flat out lie about this IMO destroys our credibility in this matter. I can get past the email thing, even if some say it was a bit heavy handed, and I think others can too. But the fact is, with that email I think we pushed things about as far as we can from a PR standpoint. Add to that the possibility of Miller getting caught lying about the waiver thing we now have egg all over our faces. If we did indeed try to get Miles off the waiver wire, Good luck trying to get the league or the commish to be sympathetic to our plight now Larry.

 

[PapaG]

The news today isn't the fact that we tried to claim Miles, which was probably a smart move. The news today is that Larry Miller is a liar. He said on John Canzanos show Friday when asked whether they would claim Darius on waivers by saying "no, we wouldn't do that" even though the team had already tried to do exactly that.


audio link
http://www.nba.com/media/blazers/Larry_Miller_on_BFT_1-9-09.mp3

I don't mind that the Blazers tried to pick up Miles off the waiver wire. I do mind Larry Miller lying about it.

The Blazers president caught in a flat out lie about this IMO destroys our credibility in this matter. I can get past the email thing, even if some say it was a bit heavy handed, and I think others can too. But the fact is, with that email I think we pushed things about as far as we can from a PR standpoint. Add to that Miller getting caught lying about the waiver thing we now have egg all over our faces. Good luck trying to get the league or the commish to be sympathetic to our plight now Larry.

Canzano asked if the Blazers "would" make a claim. At that point, the Blazers already had made a claim. Perhaps Canzano should have asked "did you make a claim" since it had been a few days at that point.

Not sure how Miller is a liar based on the question asked of him at the time.

 

[noknobs]

Actually, by trying to pick him back up on waivers the Blazers have publicly declared they believe him able to play and not someone with a career-ending injury. Pretty stupid.

Totally false. Picking him up on waivers and benching him the rest of the year has nothing to do with Miles' ability to play, and everything to do with money. Even Memphis doesn't seem to think he can play, since they didn't want to gaurantee him the rest of the year. This is all about money.

 

[number 10]

Isn't it interesting that the league would reject the Blazers from picking up Miles off of waivers to protect their cap space, but let other teams in the league pick up Miles to screw with the Blazers cap space. Additionally, to say that the league didn't allow the Blazers to pick up Miles because of the way they were going to use him, how can they prove that? Probably the same way the Blazers could prove that other teams are only signing him to screw the Blazers' cap space.

I was going to post that, nicely put. The Blazers will no doubt take a big PR hit for all this, and maybe rightly so, but that should be offset by the positive impact of making the playoffs. Whatever the outcome, I'd bet there's going to be a new "Miles rule" in the next CBA regarding medical retirements.

 

[PapaG]

Totally false. Picking him up on waivers and benching him the rest of the year has nothing to do with Miles' ability to play, and everything to do with money. Even Memphis doesn't seem to think he can play, since they didn't want to gaurantee him the rest of the year. This is all about money.

The claim, I imagine, was merely about building a legal case. The NBA derived intent by the Blazers wanting to claim Darius and lock him up for the rest of the year. Once the NBA did that, the Blazers put out a formal email warning of intent in the case of other teams signing Darius Miles.

On top of that, where in the CBA does it say the Blazers can't claim a player off of waivers? Even one that they previously waived. Where is that?

All the NBA really did was deny an active union member the right to have the rest of his season guaranteed in a contract. I'll hold my breath waiting for Billy Hunter to file a grievance about that...

 

[ucatchtrout]

Canzano asked if the Blazers "would" make a claim. At that point, the Blazers already had made a claim. Perhaps Canzano should have asked "did you make a claim" since it had been a few days at that point.

Not sure how Miller is a liar based on the question asked of him at the time.

In my original post regarding Millers comments to John Canzano I said he had lied. After looking at that for a moment or too I may have been a bit hasty. Note that I have edited my original post. Its better to ask the question, did he lie? Rather than say he did, because while we know what he said since we have it recorded for us, we still don't know what or who the unamed sources are in the orginal article that are saying we tried to get Darius off waivers.

 

[NattaNerNuttaMan]

Nutterman: I feel like the Happy Gilmore game show host right now after "Puppy Who Lost His Way".

I have no idea how you're spinning that the league- and Portland-appointed doc has any bearing against Portland. The doc said he couldn't play and met the requirements for the cap space exception. Then, when Portland saw that teams were deliberately screwing with Miles to put the cap space back on (what I would call "bad form" and other legal minds may call "fiduciary duty" ) they attempted to use league rules to rectify the situation and get him back off of waivers (since no team was willing to claim him, I don't understand how the league could stop it or the NBPA could let them). Where's the grievance saying that Miles had a team willing to give him guaranteed money, but the NBA League Office stopped it? (Side Note: Proof # 344 that Billy Hunter is the most undeniably stupid union rep in my limited area of knowledge. And it's not close) Instead, Miles gets a vet-minimum, pro-rated 10-day contract (worth, if my arithmetic is correct, 1/110 of veteran's minimum * number of games he plays on the 10-day), instead of the fully-guaranteed rest of his contract. That seems like it's close to 500k.

first off it's Billy Madison...lol. But that was funny as hell.

But back to the subject at hand. This issue is reversed of what you said...whcih makes a big difference. They tried to sign him first off of waivers, after denied...THEN they sent the e-mail.


noknobs: Totally false. Picking him up on waivers and benching him the rest of the year has nothing to do with Miles' ability to play, and everything to do with money. Even Memphis doesn't seem to think he can play, since they didn't want to gaurantee him the rest of the year. This is all about money.

I don't know how you can say Memphis doesn't think he can play. Why would anyteam extend out a gauranteed contract on Miles when he had to serve out a majority of his available court time (after serving his 10 game susp.). I think it was the smart move to waive him before they were forced to sign him to a season long deal....now they have a fresh time limit to put him on the court and make the decision.

Why are so many teams upset at the Blazer's situation? They signed Miles to the contract to lure him away from other teams....and now that an injury happens (which is part of the game...I know, I know...it sucks) they made the bed now they have to sleep in it. Just take the hit and roll with it

 

[Boob-No-More]

They signed Miles to the contract to lure him away from other teams....

That is an incorrect statement. The Blazers didn't lure Darous Miles away from anyone. They held his Bird rights and he was a restricted free agent. They could have matched any offers. But, in this case, there were no other offers. Denver brought Miles in for a work out, but didn't make him an offer. Nobody else wanted him. Given that there were no other offers, the Blazers could have low balled Miles, but they didn't. Supposedly, they actually offered him more than he was asking for. Obviously, they thought he'd be much better than he turned out to be.

In retrospect, they should have just let him walk away and not resigned him. However, at the time he was young, athletic and had played pretty well for the half season he was in Portland prior to his free agency. This was back in the John Nash days when Darius, Zach, and soon to be lottery pick Sebastian Telfair were thought to be the Blazers future. Cap space be damned. I'm just glad those guys have been replaced with Roy, Aldridge and Oden as the future (and present) of our team.

BNM

 

[oldmangrouch]

Canzano asked if the Blazers "would" make a claim. At that point, the Blazers already had made a claim. Perhaps Canzano should have asked "did you make a claim" since it had been a few days at that point.

Not sure how Miller is a liar based on the question asked of him at the time.

It is also possible the Blazers asked the league office if they *could* file a waiver claim, and were told "no". They may have considered the idea, but never actually filed a claim. That would make what Miller said perfectly true. They wouldn't file a claim because it would be denied, and they would likely be fined.

 

[NattaNerNuttaMan]

That is an incorrect statement. The Blazers didn't lure Darous Miles away from anyone. They held his Bird rights and he was a restricted free agent. They could have matched any offers. But, in this case, there were no other offers. Denver brought Miles in for a work out, but didn't make him an offer. Nobody else wanted him. Given that there were no other offers, the Blazers could have low balled Miles, but they didn't. Supposedly, they actually offered him more than he was asking for. Obviously, they thought he'd be much better than he turned out to be.

In retrospect, they should have just let him walk away and not resigned him. However, at the time he was young, athletic and had played pretty well for the half season he was in Portland prior to his free agency. This was back in the John Nash days when Darius, Zach, and soon to be lottery pick Sebastian Telfair were thought to be the Blazers future. Cap space be damned. I'm just glad those guys have been replaced with Roy, Aldridge and Oden as the future (and present) of our team.

BNM

Then that shows how really stupid they were to give him such a monsterous extention...lol...
And I'm not incorrect....if a team is throwing that much money at him as a restricted free-agent...they are luring him with the extenstion before he becomes unrestricted. They were banking on Miles breaking out the contract year and didn't want to risk him walking

 

[Masbee]

Another thing about the Blazers not being able to claim Miles.

The NBA just screwed a player out of a guaranteed contract for the rest of the season. As it is now, Miles only has a 10-day deal. The Blazers would have had to pay Darius a prorated NBA veteran minimum deal.

Will Billy Hunter file a grievance?

Are you sure about all this?

I thought if a player is under a contract for, say, $9,000,000 for a season, but is waived and picked up by another team and paid, say, $500,000, the $500,000 is paid to the team paying the $9,000,000 as an offset. In other words the guaranteed contract, guarantees the player $9,000,000 - but no more.

Darius can't make more money the next two seasons. Right?

 

[elcap15]

No, they didn't threaten to sue anyone who hired them. The threatened to sue anyone who hired him specifically with the sole intention of harming the Blazers financially (cap space and $9 million in luxury tax payments). They said they were fine with a team signing him to actually play him, but they weren't OK with a team signing him just to screw the Blazers out of millions of dollars in cap space and millions of dollars in luxury tax payments. Do you not see the difference?

BNM

Sure I see the difference. The question is how would they prove that anyway. The intention of the letter was to try and intimidate teams from hiring Darius. Miles has every right to seek employment in the NBA and it is not up to the Blazers to say whether other teams can sign him or not.

Since he got hired anyway, Miles doesnt have any case, because the email obvioulsy didnt prevent him from getting work. But if it had, then I think he would have grounds to sue for loss of employment or something like that. ( Again, Im no lawyer.)

 

[elcap15]

How so? He signed an NBA contract within 24 hours of the email being sent, and in almost two years he has not proven to be anything other than a garbage time player with a bad team.

Teams wouldn't even be messing with him if it weren't for the chance to cripple Portland this off-season and also bank an extra $300k or so in Paul Allen's extra luxury tax payment.

Tell me what case Miles has against the Blazers.

Well, now I agree that he has no case, because another team called the Blazers bluff. But if he hadnt gotten signed, then I could see some grounds for litigation.

and just for the record, I hate Darius Miles.

 

[number 10]

Are you sure about all this?

I thought if a player is under a contract for, say, $9,000,000 for a season, but is waived and picked up by another team and paid, say, $500,000, the $500,000 is paid to the team paying the $9,000,000 as an offset. In other words the guaranteed contract, guarantees the player $9,000,000 - but no more.

Darius can't make more money the next two seasons. Right?

I seem to remember something similar with Derek Anderson a few years ago, but maybe there's a difference between DA and a "medical retirement."

 

[The Sebastian Express]

I seem to remember something similar with Derek Anderson a few years ago, but maybe there's a difference between DA and a "medical retirement."

Derek Anderson was waived under the one time Allan Houston rule that allowed teams to waive one player per team for the express purpose of removing them from their luxury threshold. They still had to play the player, and the player still counted against the salary cap, but the player did not count for exceeding the luxury threshold thus the team did not have to pay dollar on dollar if that player's salary was part of their luxury threshold.

 

[number 10]

Derek Anderson was waived under the one time Allan Houston rule that allowed teams to waive one player per team for the express purpose of removing them from their luxury threshold. They still had to play the player, and the player still counted against the salary cap, but the player did not count for exceeding the luxury threshold thus the team did not have to pay dollar on dollar if that player's salary was part of their luxury threshold.

here's the part I was thinking of

Ron Carlson on KATU reported this morning that DA will get the $$$ we owe him from his contract, and the $$$ he just signed for from Houston? Is that true? I thought I read a post on our board stating that he doesnt get both salary's, that the $$$ he gets from Houston will be deducted from the $$$ we owe him? Anyone know?

and the answer

Yes, he gets $9 mil from us this year, and $9.7 mil next year

Houston pays him an additional amount reportedly around $1.67 mil

BUT

we will get a rebate of about $500K each year

(Houston salary of $1.67 - min slary $0.7 mil or so) = $1 mil approx / 2 = $500K

So yes, he will get paid about $10.7 mil this year

I'm not even sure how that relates to Darius, but for whatever reason this whole ordeal made me think about DA's situation.