Blazers last in the league in defense

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GDiama said:
Defense shouldn't rely so heavily on personnel. I mean even if we had Kawhi he wouldn't take us from 30th to 15th in Defensive Rating. We just have to accept Stotts is useless on that end. This will never be fixed.
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Wrong.
 
kjironman1 said:
The very fact that you just listed 4 scenarios this team has dealt with speaks volumes.
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And yet no matter the scenario, they are still left with such a bad ranking. It wasn't any better when they were all healthy....well, maybe by 1 or 2 spots. Nothing to brag about. So if healthy, not healthy, injured, different rotations, players, over a number of seasons, don't make much difference, then what is the issue?
 
GDiama said:
So why after bringing in defensive specialists we are still shit?

Why NY Knicks is so high on def rating without having great individual defenders?
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So you want to be the Knicks?
A win loss record of 14-16 in the East?
Overall team ranking #19 two spots lower than the Blazers at#17

TBpup said:
And yet no matter the scenario,
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Right now the overall ranking is #17 for the league. That is Both offense and defense.
The game is about wins and losses.
The Blazers need to be in the top 10 in Overall Offense/Defensive ranking to be in the mix.
They have done that in the last couple weeks.
That is without 3 starters. Two of which are defensive players this team could use.
One starter that would help their offensive ranking as well.

You guys always cherry pick your way through things and leave out the big picture. The Teams overall ranking is #17 in the league playing in the Western Conference.
This game is and has always been about making buckets. You need to get stops when the game is on the line. But you still have to be able to score.
Simple premise.
Score more points than your opponent.

So i'll throw it right back at you. What's the issue?
THREE STARTERS OUT is the issue.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_ratings.html
 
kjironman1 said:
So you want to be the Knicks?
A win loss record of 14-16 in the East?
Overall team ranking #19 two spots lower than the Blazers at#17


Right now the overall ranking is #17 for the league. That is Both offense and defense.
The game is about wins and losses.
The Blazers need to be in the top 10 in Overall Offense/Defensive ranking to be in the mix.
They have done that in the last couple weeks.
That is without 3 starters. Two of which are defensive players this team could use.
One starter that would help their offensive ranking as well.

You guys always cherry pick your way through things and leave out the big picture. The Teams overall ranking is #17 in the league playing in the Western Conference.
This game is and has always been about making buckets. You need to get stops when the game is on the line. But you still have to be able to score.
Simple premise.
Score more points than your opponent.

So i'll throw it right back at you. What's the issue?
THREE STARTERS OUT is the issue.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_ratings.html
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Where did i say i want to be the Knicks? I am asking how they play so good D without good defenders. Pointing the fact that cosching can do wonders on that end. Apparently they are not talented enough on offensive end but they doing more than ok with the personnel they have.
Why do i bother i wonder. You always find everything perfect, Blazers do everything right in your mind.
 
GDiama said:
Where did i say i want to be the Knicks? I am asking how they play so good D without good defenders. Pointing the fact that cosching can do wonders on that end. Apparently they are not talented enough on offensive end but they doing more than ok with the personnel they have.
Why do i bother i wonder. You always find everything perfect, Blazers do everything right in your mind.
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Don't compare the Blazers to the Knicks then. It never ends well for those that do.
 
One loss after a great winning streak ....in the mix at the top of the west...and people are worried about our defensive ranking? When we get up in a game by 20 we play Elleby and Simons and Giles to get them some burn...which doesn't help your defensive ranking....we've won games where our 3rd string lost leads but we still win...the trade off is that Elleby gets to guard Lebron and gain experience even though Lebron cleans his clock....developing young players sacrifices stats .....we had virtually no training camp for our new vets...they're now learning plays and how to make teammates better....so yeah...we're not dominating both sides of the ball but we're winning....sometimes ugly but still winning.......Stotts haters are never going to see value in his system...personally I love it. It's a trust based coaching system. I've stopped trying to sell anyone here on the value of players coaches. I've come to really respect Terry Stotts as a coach and leader
 
kjironman1 said:
Don't compare the Blazers to the Knicks then. It never ends well for those that do.
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sorry man....I think you're well off base. The discussion is a little narrower than you want to make it, IMO

the discussion is about coaching and defense. In that context, by far the biggest change for the Knicks from last season to this season has been the coaching staff. It's all new. Last season, the Knicks ranked 23rd in defense; this season they rank 3rd.

yes, there have been some personnel changes, but no boted defenders have been added and many of the rotation players from last season are still there. To go from 23rd to 3rd in defense shows that it isn't all about the roster construction.

it's also bogus to talk about their offense being 24th in the league and using that to dismiss their massive defensive improvement (not sure if you did that). That narrative is missing the critical context that last season their offense was 28th. They have improved in both defense and offense. Further, last season, their net rating was -6.5; this season it's -0.1. That major improvement is reflected in the fact that last season, the Knicks were 12th in the East and 25th in the NBA; this season they are 8th in the east and 17th in the NBA. There seems to be a pretty clear correlation between their winning percentage and their defensive improvement
 
wizenheimer said:
sorry man....I think you're well off base. The discussion is a little narrower than you want to make it, IMO

the discussion is about coaching and defense. In that context, by far the biggest change for the Knicks from last season to this season has been the coaching staff. It's all new. Last season, the Knicks ranked 23rd in defense; this season they rank 3rd.

yes, there have been some personnel changes, but no boted defenders have been added and many of the rotation players from last season are still there. To go from 23rd to 3rd in defense shows that it isn't all about the roster construction.

it's also bogus to talk about their offense being 24th in the league and using that to dismiss their massive defensive improvement (not sure if you did that). That narrative is missing the critical context that last season their offense was 28th. They have improved in both defense and offense. Further, last season, their net rating was -6.5; this season it's -0.1. That major improvement is reflected in the fact that last season, the Knicks were 12th in the East and 25th in the NBA; this season they are 8th in the east and 17th in the NBA. There seems to be a pretty clear correlation between their winning percentage and their defensive improvement
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The Knicks haven't lost 3 of their starting lineup due to injury and then their backup center after that.....the critical context is the conference ranking and how they got the ranking...east or west...the Knicks coach usually comes out of the gate looking like he's heading somewhere ...then burns out his starters and front office....see if he avoids that this stop. Thibs pretty much ruined Joakim Noah and Derrick Rose although Rose has come back a bit...see how he handles his roster this time around. I don't think kjironman is off base at all...I think that like me he holds an unpopular view on our team in comparison to other teams like the Knicks....I think it's worth it to play 3rd stringers with a lead even if the opponent closes the gap and makes the game seem closer than it was....which happens alot
 
riverman said:
One loss after a great winning streak ....in the mix at the top of the west...and people are worried about our defensive ranking? When we get up in a game by 20 we play Elleby and Simons and Giles to get them some burn...which doesn't help your defensive ranking....we've won games where our 3rd string lost leads but we still win...the trade off is that Elleby gets to guard Lebron and gain experience even though Lebron cleans his clock....developing young players sacrifices stats .....we had virtually no training camp for our new vets...they're now learning plays and how to make teammates better....so yeah...we're not dominating both sides of the ball but we're winning....sometimes ugly but still winning.......Stotts haters are never going to see value in his system...personally I love it. It's a trust based coaching system. I've stopped trying to sell anyone here on the value of players coaches. I've come to really respect Terry Stotts as a coach and leader
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It’s about to be 4 losses in a row because we have Phoenix, Denver, and LA coming up.
 
Natebishop3 said:
It’s about to be 4 losses in a row because we have Phoenix, Denver, and LA coming up.
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nah....buzzkill...one game at a time...we beat the Lakers and they got beat last night....I like our chances..
 
riverman said:
The Knicks haven't lost 3 of their starting lineup due to injury and then their backup center after that.....the critical context is the conference ranking and how they got the ranking...east or west...the Knicks coach usually comes out of the gate looking like he's heading somewhere ...then burns out his starters and front office....see if he avoids that this stop. Thibs pretty much ruined Joakim Noah and Derrick Rose although Rose has come back a bit...see how he handles his roster this time around. I don't think kjironman is off base at all...I think that like me he holds an unpopular view on our team in comparison to other teams like the Knicks....I think it's worth it to play 3rd stringers with a lead even if the opponent closes the gap and makes the game seem closer than it was....which happens alot
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what does any of that have to do with coaching and defense? easy answer is almost nothing

there's a strong narrative advanced by homers, and the fans of Blazer status-quo and Stotts, that personnel is the biggest factor in determining a team's defensive ability, not coaching. The Knicks' teams from last year to this year kick the living shit out of that narrative

just where are the great defenders in this rotation?

upload_2021-2-21_11-1-43.png

that is the team that has the 3rd best defense in the NBA. The idea that coaching only has a minor impact on defense is bullshit

nobody is suggesting to fire Stotts and hire away Thibs. They are saying, with justification, that Stotts is deficient as a defensive coach
 
wizenheimer said:
what does any of that have to do with coaching and defense? easy answer is almost nothing

there's a strong narrative advanced by homers and the fans of Blazer status-quo and Stotts that personnel is the biggest factor in determining a team's defensive ability, not coaching. The Knicks' teams from last year to this year kick the living shit out of that narrative

just where are the great defenders in this rotation?

View attachment 37059

that is the team that has the 3rd best defense in the NBA. The idea that coaching only has a minor impact on defense is bullshit

nobody is suggesting to fire Stotts and hire away Thibs. They are saying, with justification, that Stotts is a failure as a defensive coach
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I don't think personnel or coaching is our issue on defense....I think it's chemistry and effort. I never claimed Stotts is the defensive coach people are clamoring for....I said he's winning and that's the bottom line and he's playing rookies without worrying about them giving up points to gain experience ....something Nate would NEVER do....and Nate's a great defensive coach ..albeit one without a job now. I just think alot of our "accountant type" members here are stat worshipers that just love the moneyball side of the sport. In reference to me....please refer to me as a fan.......I was no homer in the Felton era..I think it's an abused term anyway .but I do really like Stotts..I can live with that...when a player's coach let's his shooters shoot out of a slump, it really bothers stat folks. I understand but don't subscribe to that view of coaching success
 
Natebishop3 said:
It’s about to be 4 losses in a row because we have Phoenix, Denver, and LA coming up.
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We'll see how this post ages. To take a page out of @THE HCP 's book. "So i guess if they win one of them you'll be happy right because obviously it will be "in Spite" of who is Injured, Coaching, Playing, Defending.
Injuries don't matter. Road doesn't matter. 7 games in seven cities over 13 days doesn't matter at all. Guess it's a good thing they won 6 straight because they will indeed get Nurk and CJ back and be at least a .500 team which was pretty much what was my best hope just a month ago.
Try supporting your team just once. It makes the season so much more enjoyable. Certainly if you have 72K+ posts about the team.
 
riverman said:
I don't think personnel or coaching is our issue on defense....I think it's chemistry and effort. I never claimed Stotts is the defensive coach people are clamoring for....I said he's winning and that's the bottom line and he's playing rookies without worrying about them giving up points to gain experience ....something Nate would NEVER do....and Nate's a great defensive coach ..albeit one without a job now. I just think alot of our "accountant type" members here are stat worshipers that just love the moneyball side of the sport. In reference to me....please refer to me as a fan.......I was no homer in the Felton era..I think it's an abused term anyway .but I do really like Stotts..I can live with that...when a player's coach let's his shooters shoot out of a slump, it really bothers stat folks. I understand but don't subscribe to that view of coaching success
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What is he winning though, last time I checked he's getting us into the playoffs with very little success after that.

I think we all agree that Dame is one of if not the best offensive weapons in the game. I think since you are a fan and therefore someone who can go by the eye test that you can agree that RoCo and DJ are great defensively and we've had other really good defenders in the past. I think we all know what Nurk is capable of on both ends. I think we know that Olshey isn't ambitious enough at getting other players around Dame that make sense. Maybe you don't agree with any of what I just said.

However, you said that you don't think it's a matter personnel and that it's a matter of chemistry (making the pieces fit together) and effort (often times achieved with non self starters by motivation) I would say that despite the fact that you identified it as not being a coaching issue that chemistry and effort are very much coaching issues.

It's not all on Stotts but the guy just hasn't had the success that he should have had, riding the coattails of a great roster coming in for two seasons and then the emergence of Dame as a superstar, to justify his tenure. I would say the exact same thing about Olshey. They haven't got the job done and it should be a lot easier job when you have a guy like Dame. Both should be fired, major roster moves should be made that make sense around Dame and the new coach's philosophies and we should be a contender. We have the talent on the team, it just doesn't fit together and that's on both the GM and Coach who have been around too long to not have challenged for a title.
 
kjironman1 said:
We'll see how this post ages. To take a page out of @THE HCP 's book. "So i guess if they win one of them you'll be happy right because obviously it will be "in Spite" of who is Injured, Coaching, Playing, Defending.
Injuries don't matter. Road doesn't matter. 7 games in seven cities over 13 days doesn't matter at all. Guess it's a good thing they won 6 straight because they will indeed get Nurk and CJ back and be at least a .500 team which was pretty much what was my best hope just a month ago.
Try supporting your team just once. It makes the season so much more enjoyable. Certainly if you have 72K+ posts about the team.
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Oh fuck off with this. You don’t get to decide what is and what is not supporting the team.
 
kjironman1 said:
Like i said.
Well see how that post ages.
Enjoy your day.
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Either way I win. Either I’m proved wrong and we win against some of the better teams in the league or I’m right and you are wrong with your self righteous shit. It’s win win for me.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Either way I win. Either I’m proved wrong and we win against some of the better teams in the league or I’m right and you are wrong with your self righteous shit. It’s win win for me.
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No bro. This isn't about right or wrong and certainly doesn't seem like you are winning anything here. I do get to decide what is supporting the team for me.
Natebishop3 said:
You don’t get to decide what is and what is not supporting the team.
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Now you just keep doing your negative shtick. If that keeps you thinking this is about being "Right" then you do you bro.
Personally I'm going to continue to support the team the way i do and that will be to look for positives. Sorry that offends you but know and understand i am not sorry for supporting my team the way i do and will not change.
 
kjironman1 said:
No bro. This isn't about right or wrong and certainly doesn't seem like you are winning anything here. I do get to decide what is supporting the team for me.


Now you just keep doing your negative shtick. If that keeps you thinking this is about being "Right" then you do you bro.
Personally I'm going to continue to support the team the way i do and that will be to look for positives. Sorry that offends you but know and understand i am not sorry for supporting my team the way i do and will not change.
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Wait a minute.... you’re the one who accused me of not supporting the team and now you’re trying to spin around and play the victim? Please show me where I question how you support the team. I said you don’t get to decide how others support the team. Take your victim shit elsewhere.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Wait a minute.... you’re the one who accused me of not supporting the team and now you’re trying to spin around and play the victim? Please show me where I question how you support the team. I said you don’t get to decide how others support the team. Take your victim shit elsewhere.
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Sorry.
You must have wrote something other than what you meant.
You do that quite often it seems. I apologize for reading what you wrote correctly and responding in kind.
I will do better in the future at trying to decipher your true meaning.
Natebishop3 said:
. You don’t get to decide what is and what is not supporting the team.
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What you meant was
Natebishop3 said:
I said you don’t get to decide how others support the team.
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Again this happen a lot with you. 72K + post will do that. I'm sure others as well as me will work to make sure we don't misunderstand what you write when you write it WRONG!

One last time
Have a Nice Day.
 
kjironman1 said:
Sorry.
You must have wrote something other than what you meant.
You do that quite often it seems. I apologize for reading what you wrote correctly and responding in kind.
I will do better in the future at trying to decipher your true meaning.


What you meant was


Again this happen a lot with you. 72K + post will do that. I'm sure others as well as me will work to make sure we don't misunderstand what you write when you write it WRONG!

One last time
Have a Nice Day.
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LOL

ok. Pretty sure I had you on ignore at one point. You can return to that list and be done with it.

Later.
 
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