Blazers-Nuggets game thread 12-22

[alex42083]

Oh I know its unrealistic to acquire him, just using hindsight about that terrible 05 draft ( I like Martell, but we really screwed the pooch!)

Yeah.. the '05 Draft is like 2000 WCF Game 7. It hurts, but I guess not everything can go right especially when you had Patternash running the show.

 

[Kaydow]

Tonights Loss . . . depressing?

From the opening tip tonight, Denver wanted it more than we did. They got to the 1st loose ball of the game and didn't stop working all night. I was severely dissapointed in the effort tonight. We came out flat, and we're in foul trouble all game. Can't blame the refs either. Oden continues to not move his feet. He slaps, reaches, hip checks, holds . . . if only he brought the kind of energy that Nene, Martin, and Anderson did tonight. MOVE YOUR FEET. I know, I know - his knee is < 100'%. Still, it looks like he's sleepwalking some nights. Our guards can't stop dribble penetration. Our B/U PG comes in and misses a layup and throws the ball away a couple of times, one of them on a would be/easy 2 on 1 break. Sergio just continues to dissapoint - can't make a layup and can't defend. Hmmm, this guy wants more playing time? Go play for Oklahoma city.

You can tell Nate is stuck. The Diogu experiment went bad again - more turnovers and missed shots under the basket (Dude, stop trying to put the ball on the deck!) He played so bad that Nate stuck Frey back in . . . in the 4th quarter!! Same with Sergio, he stunk so bad that Nate finally "Freed Bayless" . . . in the 4th quater. So, how are Bayless and Frey going to do in a nail biter close game for 1st place on the road? When neither has any reason to feel confident these days? Well, you can criticize Nate but I don't think it would have made a difference. The fate of this team hinges on Brandon Roy. When he plays like an MVP, we look decent. He gets to the basket/free throw line, opens things up, and we're off to the races. When he isn't making shots, or the opposing team is locking him down - we look bad. Other than Roy, we have no playmakers. Just jump shooters.

The thing that makes me mad is the effort. That game was for 1st place fellas. The hustle board was all Denver tonight - more steals, blocks, and rebounds. More easy baskets, more free throws, more assists, more points in the paint (by a BUNCH) Why did the team come out so flat tonight? After 3 days off? 14 points in the 4th quarter? 3 pointers kept us in the game for a while, but sooner or later you're tempting fate when that's your bread and butter.

Here's to hoping Brandon "MVP" Roy comes to the rescue tomorrow night.

 

[bodyman5001]

Re: Tonights Loss . . . depressing?

I didn't come one here and post so as not to sound like a weirdo but I knew, just KNEW that they were going to lose tonight and I didn't even get angry about it.

The same way I knew the Jazz would come back from being down 27-7 after the first the other night, that is just the way the NBA goes.

 

[craigehlo]

Re: Tonights Loss . . . depressing?

Tonight showed our glaring weakness of not being able to get easy buckets as well as another other in the last few seasons. Roy is the only guy on the teams that's capable of getting to the rim on a fairly consistent basis. LaMarcus 20-foot jumpers aren't a great #2 option if we want to make the playoffs in the West. We need more slashing to the rim (to get to the FT line) which will also keep the other team from running fast breaks on all of our long range misses.

Unfortunately we stacked a roster full of jump shooters and raw big men right now.

 

[oldmangrouch]

A generally poor defensive team shuts down our best player. We were out hustled and muscled on the boards. We were also on the wrong end of a big FT disparity.

All-in-all, a formula for a bad night. If the team bounces back in the second game, it probably isn't a big deal. If it happens again.......

 

[SheedSoNasty]

Re: Tonights Loss . . . depressing?

I didn't come one here and post so as not to sound like a weirdo but I knew, just KNEW that they were going to lose tonight and I didn't even get angry about it.

The same way I knew the Jazz would come back from being down 27-7 after the first the other night, that is just the way the NBA goes.

Completely agree. We struggle mightily in Denver and it doesn't matter who suits up for us or them. They've got our number. However, I think we'll come back and spank them tomorrow night in front of a crowd of 37 people.

For those of you that have tickets, are you going?

 

[MARIS61]

Terrible individual performances lead to Nate having to put in crazy rotations. Bad effort all around.

I disagree. Just the opposite happened.

Nate went away from the guys who've performed well off the bench and threw in Bayless and Diogu, which pretty much doomed us by throwing everyone out of whack. He regressed to his "I hate Sergio" form and went without any recognizable team offense in the second half.

Sergio is our only PG who includes the rest of the team in the offense (3 assists in 5 mins) and it showed glaringly in his absence. Billups had more assists than Blake and Roy combined.

Joel and Rudy should have played more also. Joel had 8 rbs and 3 pf in 21 minutes, Greg had 3 rbs and 6 pf in 21 minutes. We had no center for 6 mins in a game where we got killed on the boards.

The last 4-5 games smell disturbingly similar to when Nate ended our 13 game streak last year by "fixing what wasn't broke".

Hopefully, this doesn't have as devastating of an effect this year.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Tomorrow's game will tell the story of our team's character. We need to come out with passion and determination. But there shouldn't be a gut check game tomorrow. We had a HUGE chance to put distance between us and the rest of the NW and we fell flat on our faces. I am very disappointed with the game tonight, esp with 3 days rest.

 

[alex42083]

Yeah it was a somewhat depressing game with a chance to take first, and seeing the guys not play with the type of energy we know they can play with.

I know it's been talked about a lot, but we should really be running more with as young of a group that we have. We have Rudy, Travis, Nicolas who are young, lively and can finish on the breaks, Brandon can finish when he feels like running, and LaMarcus is one of the quickest, fastest PFs in the league.
We have Greg and Joel who can dominate the boards, and outlet to start a break.

We need the easy baskets, and it just gets hard to watch when we have to grind out every possession in the half court with a Roy ISO, or in the case of tonight... seeing Outlaw ISO from the top three, four times down the stretch.

 

[MARIS61]

there is absolutely no chance shavlik randolph would be better than frye or diogu in any way. he's absolute garbage. one of the worst players in the league.

As are Frye and Diogu. We know that for a fact.

You are only speculating about Randolph.

 

[alex42083]

I hope it doesn't get to the point that we have to look toward S-Bo, who was just fighting for an NBA contract with Steven Hill (Steven Hill!), to provide a lift off the bench...

 

[craigehlo]

Nate went away from the guys who've performed well off the bench and threw in Bayless and Diogu, which pretty much doomed us by throwing everyone out of whack. He regressed to his "I hate Sergio" form and went without any recognizable team offense in the second half

Sergio took a crap early in the game and showed that he couldn't keep any of the Denver guards in front of him. I can't fault Nate too badly with the short leash on him tonight, but putting Bayless in crunch time was certainly questionable. I'd rather see Rudy run the point in that tight a game.

 

[alex42083]

I'd hate to bang on the players... but I think Blake's reaction pretty much told the story of how Roy played tonight. I still love Brandon though, but this was a funny photo..

Brandon: "What's wrong Blake?"
Steve: "Geezus, you stink tonight Brandon"

 

[Kaydow]

I disagree. Just the opposite happened.

Nate went away from the guys who've performed well off the bench and threw in Bayless and Diogu, which pretty much doomed us by throwing everyone out of whack. He regressed to his "I hate Sergio" form and went without any recognizable team offense in the second half.

Sergio is our only PG who includes the rest of the team in the offense (3 assists in 5 mins) and it showed glaringly in his absence. Billups had more assists than Blake and Roy combined.

Joel and Rudy should have played more also. Joel had 8 rbs and 3 pf in 21 minutes, Greg had 3 rbs and 6 pf in 21 minutes. We had no center for 6 mins in a game where we got killed on the boards.

The last 4-5 games smell disturbingly similar to when Nate ended our 13 game streak last year by "fixing what wasn't broke".

Hopefully, this doesn't have as devastating of an effect this year.

I'm tired of hearing about Sergio's assist numbers. His three assist tonight were balls he threw out to Rudy and Travis at the 3 point line. Big deal. He can't make a lay-up so he kicks it out all of the time. When the shots fall, he ends up with a few assists. How often do his passes end up in easy buckets?

And his defense is just awful. I see no reason to continue playing him. He is what he is. A trajically flawed novelty that can't make a lay-up, can't defend, can't shoot, and can't take care of the ball. Do people realize he's shooting 33% from the floor? Or that his assist to t/o is barely over 2 to 1?

Oh yeah, about once or twice a week he throws a beautiful alley-oop (usually to Rudy) and for every one he throws, 3 of them end up going the other way. And every once in a while he'll pile up assist, but over half of them are on jumpers.

I'm no board with giving Bayless a chance. He seriously can't be any worse than Sergio. I know Bayless played bad tonight. He missed a lay-up and got called for traveling at start of the 4th quarter. I'd like to see him eased into the rotation a little bit, prerferably early (2nd quarter) to start with. He's going to struggle, and maybe we're taking a half step back . . . but Sergio has been the same for 3 years. Plus, Bayless might be able to help us in the area we desperately need help - a playmaker who can get to/finish at the basket - something Sergio can only dream about. Roy can't pull a "Phoenix 52" every night - maybe Bayless can help.

 

[rocketeer]

As are Frye and Diogu. We know that for a fact.

You are only speculating about Randolph.

no, there is no speculation. frye and diogu have both proven to be much better nba players than randolph.

 

[Kaydow]

no, there is no speculation. frye and diogu have both proven to be much better nba players than randolph.

I'm sorry, but saying that Ike Diogu is "much better" than anything with a pulse is a stretch. The only reason he's getting a chance to play is b/c Frye isn't a good fit with the 2nd unit - he floats around the perimeter (no post game at all) and just isn't physical enough. He's a 6'10" SF and we need a b/u PF.

 

[WillG]

I disagree. Just the opposite happened.

Nate went away from the guys who've performed well off the bench and threw in Bayless and Diogu, which pretty much doomed us by throwing everyone out of whack. He regressed to his "I hate Sergio" form and went without any recognizable team offense in the second half.

Joel and Rudy should have played more also. Joel had 8 rbs and 3 pf in 21 minutes, Greg had 3 rbs and 6 pf in 21 minutes. We had no center for 6 mins in a game where we got killed on the boards.

The last 4-5 games smell disturbingly similar to when Nate ended our 13 game streak last year by "fixing what wasn't broke".

Agreed. Also: McMuffin could be outcoached by a chimp.
I like Nate, and have given him the benefit of the doubt, but enough is enough.
This team will be held back, until they have someone competent to guide/coach them, and another high caliber player emerges/is traded for to share the load with Roy.
Roy will truly shine as a complimentary, glue type player, when the pressure is not soley on his shoulders.

 

[craigehlo]

I'm sorry, but saying that Ike Diogu is "much better" than anything with a pulse is a stretch.

I have a feeling we could pluck a few guys from the NBADL that will give more production than either Frye or Ike. Those two are making me miss the "good old days" of Brian Skinner.

 

[Kaydow]

Agreed. Also: McMuffin could be outcoached by a chimp.
I like Nate, and have given him the benefit of the doubt, but enough is enough.
This team will be held back, until they have someone competent to guide/coach them, and another high caliber player emerges/is traded for to share the load with Roy.
Roy will truly shine as a complimentary, glue type player, when the pressure is not soley on his shoulders.

Let's not sell Brandon Roy Short here. He's no complimentary player. He's the real deal.

He's our #1 option and will be for years, and I'm great with that. What we DO NEED is a complimentary player to go with HIM. Not visa versa.

Remember, one guy can't do it on his own. Kobe's Lakers were jacked up before Gasol and the emergence of Bynum. D-Wade's Heat were terrible last year (even at the beginning of the year when he was healthy)
Labron's Cavs have looked mediocre much of his career. Brandon Roy is one of the best 10 players in the league right now. Denver did a good job on him tonight, but foul trouble was his real nemesis.

 

[Ed O]

I'm sorry, but saying that Ike Diogu is "much better" than anything with a pulse is a stretch. The only reason he's getting a chance to play is b/c Frye isn't a good fit with the 2nd unit - he floats around the perimeter (no post game at all) and just isn't physical enough. He's a 6'10" SF and we need a b/u PF.

Do you think that PER is such a flawed stat that Ike's solid career PER is a fluke?

Diogu hits the offensive glass and gets to the free throw line on a consistent basis. Even in limited minutes, he's demonstrated that this year. Assuming his FG% comes up from the 30% he's been at this year to the 50% he is on his career, I think that it would be hard to argue he'd not be an asset for Portland.

Ed O.

 

[MARIS61]

I'm tired of hearing about Sergio's assist numbers. His three assist tonight were balls he threw out to Rudy and Travis at the 3 point line. Big deal. He can't make a lay-up so he kicks it out all of the time. When the shots fall, he ends up with a few assists. How often do his passes end up in easy buckets?

Nearly always. He's near the top of the league in passing skills, screening and picking to get his teammates OPEN shots.

And his defense is just awful.

Keep perpetuating the lie. You probably believe there were WMD's too. He's our best defender at the point, and the only PG on this team who disrupt's his opponent's game.

Oh yeah, about once or twice a week he throws a beautiful alley-oop (usually to Rudy) and for every one he throws, 3 of them end up going the other way. And every once in a while he'll pile up assist, but over half of them are on jumpers.

Use your fingers next time and your counting might be more accurate.

And it appears you don't understand what an assist is.

An assist is an assist is an assist.

It's what real PG's do, the most important thing that real PG's do, and Sergio is the only PG that does it for us.

 

[rocketeer]

I'm sorry, but saying that Ike Diogu is "much better" than anything with a pulse is a stretch. The only reason he's getting a chance to play is b/c Frye isn't a good fit with the 2nd unit - he floats around the perimeter (no post game at all) and just isn't physical enough. He's a 6'10" SF and we need a b/u PF.

it isn't a stretch at all. diogu isn't good, but he doesn't have to be good to be a much better player than shavlik randolph. all three of them are in their 4th season in the league(though randolph did have an ankle injury). and in that time, diogu and frye have proven to be much better than randolph.

 

[craigehlo]

it isn't a stretch at all. diogu isn't good, but he doesn't have to be good to be a much better player than shavlik randolph. all three of them are in their 4th season in the league(though randolph did have an ankle injury). and in that time, diogu and frye have proven to be much better than randolph.

Shavlick has at least been in the playoffs, something Frye and Ike can't say. He might not be better, but he deserves the chance to prove himself.

 

[MARIS61]

Brandon Roy is one of the best 10 players in the league right now.

And people accuse me of giving Sergio too much credit for his potential?

I'd like to hear your other nine so I'll know who you're putting Roy above.

Top 10?

 

[cdub503]

sweet jesus i hope nate never puts randolph in..... ever hes complete garbage and how he even got a chance to warm a bench is beyond me

 

[rocketeer]

Shavlick has at least been in the playoffs, something Frye and Ike can't say. He might not be better, but he deserves the chance to prove himself.

you're making a joke about the playoffs, right? he has played 4 total playoff minutes over the course of 2 games.

when hasn't he gotten the chance to prove himself? this is his 4th year in the league. it's not like he's a rookie like bayless and actually hasn't had much of a chance to prove he deserves minutes.

 

[Kaydow]

And people accuse me of giving Sergio too much credit for his potential?

I'd like to hear your other nine so I'll know who you're putting Roy above.

Top 10?

Okay, let's do this. How many wins do the Blazers have w/o Roy? I'll give you my list.

Kobe, Labron, Wade, Amare, Duncan, Howard, Paul . . . actually those are about the only guys I'd consider over Roy if I were starting a team (No, I don't think Dirk belongs on that list) Ability, clutch play/guy who hits big shots in the 4th quarter, and all the intangibles like leadership, good teamate - things that do matter. There are a few others we could go back and forth on like Bosh, T. Parker, Paul Pierce, etc. How many clear cut guys would you take over Roy?

Name 10 guys that you think give the Blazers a better record than 17-11 if you exchange that player for B-Roy.

Seriously, it's tough to do.

 

[Kaydow]

Keep perpetuating the lie. You probably believe there were WMD's too. He's our best defender at the point, and the only PG on this team who disrupt's his opponent's game.



Use your fingers next time and your counting might be more accurate.

And it appears you don't understand what an assist is.

An assist is an assist is an assist.

It's what real PG's do, the most important thing that real PG's do, and Sergio is the only PG that does it for us.

Do you honestly feel confident with Sergio in the game? I mean, when we aren't playing a weak sister like Sacramento? The guy can't make a lay-up, and he's careless with the ball. Are you honestly saying he isn't? It seems like he's going for style points - he rarely just makes the easy pass. His defense is bad - that's no lie. Arguing over who is a better defender between him and Blake is like arguing over a Joel Pryz vs Shaq three point contest.

I've watched Sergio for 3 years. And still - I have no confidence in him, especially in a grind-it-out type game with a team like Denver, or LA, or San Antonio, New Orleans, Utah, etc. As much as I dispise Blake, I find myself (when Sergio is in) just counting the seconds until Blake returns. NOW THAT'S BAD.