Blazers on verge of title?

[wizenheimer]

They remain too in love with CJ which is the best way to balance this out.

I agree with that. In the playoffs, opposing coaches always give lip service to CJ but they never fear him enough to take their teams out of their dame-centric defense. It's almost like they are inviting CJ to go hero-ball...rope-a-dope strategy

I also think it was Olshey's insistence that CJ could be the backup PG, rather then signing an actual competent backup PG (who would challenge CJ for minutes) that led to the Turner signing. Yeah, that's conjecture

 

[dviss1]

Wait a minute?
Are you actually saying Aminu is a better fit after watching the last three seasons?

Yes.

We would be a fucking sieve on defense with K love.

We don't need his offense.

 

[dviss1]

Aminu's not a bad fit. He plays good defense. He boards. He's gotten pretty consistent at making his open 3s. He doesn't embarrass the organization.

It's not that he's a bad fit. It's that he is a spot on the roster that is upgradeable, and that upgrade could be the thing that lifts the Blazers to the next level. He's an average player. Not more. Not less.

Bingo. And Love is NOT the one to replace him IMO.

Sure he'd give us spacing but he doesn't play D and doesn't rebound the way he used to.

And his astronomical contract is NOT one that he's earning.

 

[PCmor7]

Bingo. And Love is NOT the one to replace him IMO.

Sure he'd give us spacing but he doesn't play D and doesn't rebound the way he used to.

And his astronomical contract is NOT one that he's earning.

Right. And you can get away with having average defenders at a couple of positions if you have better than average defenders at all the others. But Love on the court with Dame and CJ? You better get elite defenders at the 3 and 5 if you want that to work.

What the Blazers need is to get players at the 3 and 4 who do what Mo and Chief do, but more consistently than Mo and a little better than Aminu.

 

[wizenheimer]

What the Blazers need is to get players at the 3 and 4 who do what Mo and Chief do, but more consistently than Mo and a little better than Aminu.

just start with the idea that 4 years of Aminu/Harkless being the starting forward is about 3.7 years too long

at the minimum, one needs to be replaced. Best would be that one is replaced with a high-level player

 

[dviss1]

just start with the idea that 4 years of Aminu/Harkless being the starting forward is about 3.7 years too long

at the minimum, one needs to be replaced. Best would be that one is replaced with a high-level player

I think folks need to understand why they are our forwards. Defensively we can switch. You cannot do that with Love at your PF spot.

Defense matters, and Love's spacing and offense isn't worth:



Almost everyone in here thought CLE made a stupid decision when they re-signed KLove let alone pay him that much.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I think folks need to understand why they are our forwards. Defensively we can switch. You cannot do that with Love at your PF spot.

Defense matters, and Love's spacing and offense isn't worth:

View attachment 26715

Of course defense matters, but that also includes making the other defense pay for loading up on your best players. Moe / Aminu have been dared to beat teams for 3-4 years now and haven’t. Id be happy with either if they weren't both starting, it’s not like they’re elite defenders, they’re really just good defenders. Forward either spot is where the Blazers weakness is at, maybe Love isnt the answer but starting Moe / Aminu again isnt the answer either, at least thats my opinion.

 

[dviss1]

Of course defense matters, but that also includes making the other defense pay for loading up on your best players. Moe / Aminu have been dared to beat teams for 3-4 years now and haven’t. Id be happy with either if they weren't both starting, it’s not like they’re elite defenders, they’re really just good defenders. Forward either spot is where the Blazers weakness is at, maybe Love isnt the answer but starting Moe / Aminu again isnt the answer either, at least thats my opinion.

You say this like I'm not advocating for replacements at the SF and PF position.

I am.

I am actually a proponent of just letting Aminu walk.

Aminu and ET were like security blankets for Stotts. Off the roster means out of the rotation.

Now, I'd MUCH rather have Collins start at the 4. If we didn't need help at the Center this might be the case OR... It still might be.

Advocating for a grossly overpaid, oft injured, big who doesn't play defense isn't the solution to letting Aminu walk.

 

[Reep]

I think folks need to understand why they are our forwards. Defensively we can switch. You cannot do that with Love at your PF spot.

Defense matters, and Love's spacing and offense isn't worth:

This is certainly true. But, I would rather see Bazemore and Collins replace them in the starting lineup (or other acquisitions) as their inability to make people fear leaving them open hurts the team as much as their defensive switching gains. We need a knockdown shooter in at least one of the forward positions to keep defenses honest.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

You say this like I'm not advocating for replacements at the SF and PF position.

I am.

I am actually a proponent of just letting Aminu walk.

Aminu and ET were like security blankets for Stotts. Off the roster means out of the rotation.

Now, I'd MUCH rather have Collins start at the 4. If we didn't need help at the Center this might be the case OR... It still might be.

Advocating for a grossly overpaid, oft injured, big who doesn't play defense isn't the solution to letting Aminu walk.

Fair enough, I want Collins to start if we dont make a move. If they got Love for say Meyers / Moe and a pick though, Id definitely like to see how that work. He could really help them offensively. Yeah the contract is bad but there’s very few players as offensively gifted as love when he’s healthy. Also something that love has always done that would fit in well here is rebound. Love would not be my first choice but the chance of guys who would be on “first choice list” is basically 0...

 

[dviss1]

This is certainly true. But, I would rather see Bazemore and Collins replace them in the starting lineup (or other acquisitions) as their inability to make people fear leaving them open hurts the team as much as their defensive switching gains. We need a knockdown shooter in at least one of the forward positions to keep defenses honest.

My post above explains this.

I'm DONE with Aminu starting and bringing him back for more money to come of the bench isn't a good decision IMO.

Who knows what kind of player we'd get back if he wasn't guaranteed to start. We just need to sever ties.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Man...it doesn't seem likely, but if we could deal for someone like Otto Porter...

 

[dviss1]

Yeah the contract is bad but there’s very few players as offensively gifted as love when he’s healthy.

Really?? I disagree with this completely. This board completely overrates him IMO:

 

[TBpup]

Man...it doesn't seem likely, but if we could deal for someone like Otto Porter...

I like Porter and can't believe what little CHI gave up for him last year. I'd also love to have Covington. There are faint rumors that MIN would trade him. He would fit here perfectly and his salary is very reasonable.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Really?? I disagree with this completely. This board completely overrates him IMO:

View attachment 26716

Why are you highlighting his blocks/game?

 

[dviss1]

Why are you highlighting his blocks/game?

He plays no D.

To me, if you are 6'10"+, you should be averaging a block a game.

You get paid 28+ MM per season and you can't give me a block?

No. Thanks.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Really?? I disagree with this completely. This board completely overrates him IMO:

View attachment 26716

His career PER is like 21, his career TS% for his career is just around 56%, and his career OBPM is 2.8. Maybe he’s not an elite offensive player, but what elite offensive players are they going to get? Its not that I think he’s Kevin Durant or something, but he would be a huge upgrade on offense over Aminu, he would also be a downgrade on defense, does the balance make it worth it? I dont know, my opinion would be yes if he was available for the right price.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

He plays no D.

To me, if you are 6'10"+, you should be averaging a block a game.

You get paid 28+ MM per season and you can't give me a block?

No. Thanks.

Love's not 6'10". He was 6'7.75" barefoot at his draft combine. Still, I don't think anyone needs convincing that his defense is deficient.

However, by that metric, Pascal Siakam, Paul George, and Steven Adams are all deficient defenders too...

http://bkref.com/tiny/9TGdf

 

[dviss1]

Love's not 6'10". He was 6'7.75" barefoot at his draft combine. Still, I don't think anyone needs convincing that his defense is deficient.

However, by that metric, Pascal Siakam, Paul George, and Steven Adams are all deficient defenders too...

http://bkref.com/tiny/9TGdf

Say what you want, Love is listed at 6'10" and the 6'7.75 is without shoes.

I don't expect George to get a block a game at the SF postion, Pascal and SA need to step up their D.

Adams got ATE by Kanter so...

Edit: But I know you aren't comparing them as defenders to Love right?

We all know he isn't in the same league as them.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I don't expect George to get a block a game at the SF postion, Pascal and SA need to step up their D.

Adams got ATE by Kanter so...

Amusingly, Chief also averages about 1/2 a block per game. 380 in 670 career games, and his standing reach is an inch higher than Love's (303 blocks in 657 games).

Just saying that blocks is a terrible metric for judging a forward's defense. Aminu's defense is far better than Love's for several other reasons.

 

[dviss1]

Amusingly, Chief also averages about 1/2 a block per game. 380 in 670 career games, and his standing reach is an inch higher than Love's (303 blocks in 657 games).

Just saying that blocks is a terrible metric for judging a forward's defense.

Bro... why do you care so much that I highlighted his blocks...? You say this like we all haven't seen his ineptitude on defense...

Who cares what metric I used? You're speaking like he's a decent defender...

No...

He isn't even decent, he is a liability. Not to mention how and he is FAR overpaid for the level of offensive production we'd get.

Then to top it off, we continue to forget what I REALLY should've highlighted:

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Bro... why do you care so much that I highlighted his blocks...? You say this like we all haven't seen his ineptitude on defense...

Who cares what metric I used? You're speaking like he's a decent defender...

No...

He isn't even decent, he is a liability. Not to mention how and he is FAR overpaid for the level of offensive production we'd get.

Then to top it off, we continue to forget what I REALLY should've highlighted:

View attachment 26720

Since the discussion to that point (and the portion of the post you responded to and bolded) had been about him being overrated offensively, I first mentioned it because I assumed it was a mistake, and that you would then tell me what you actually intended to highlight and why.

Then you doubled-down on it as primary evidence of him being a bad defender, which is

a) unnecessary since we all know he's a bad defender, and
b) illogical, since blocks are pretty universally understood to be a terrible indicator of actual defensive impact​

I am very much NOT speaking like he's a decent defender. Never once have I typed anything indicating he's a decent defender. In fact, I defy you to quote one sentence from me that implies such a thing.

I agree with you that Love is terrible defensively. I don't think I can make that any more clear. I've only said that blocked shots are pretty poor evidence of that. But if you want to hold to it, more power to you, I guess...

 

[dviss1]

Since the discussion to that point (and the portion of the post you responded to and bolded) had been about him being overrated offensively, I first mentioned it because I assumed it was a mistake, and that you would then tell me what you actually intended to highlight and why.

Then you doubled-down on it as primary evidence of him being a bad defender, which is

a) unnecessary since we all know he's a bad defender, and
b) illogical, since blocks are pretty universally understood to be a terrible indicator of actual defensive impact​

I am very much NOT speaking like he's a decent defender. Never once have I typed anything indicating he's a decent defender. In fact, I defy you to quote one sentence from me that implies such a thing.

I agree with you that Love is terrible defensively. I don't think I can make that any more clear. I've only said that blocked shots are pretty poor evidence of that. But if you want to hold to it, more power to you, I guess...

I mainly highlighted blocks because the eventual starter at that position (Collins) is a shot blocker as is Nurk.

But I've already said why I don't want Kevin Love:

Overpaid defensive liability who is always injured and is overrated on offense.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

But I've already said why I don't want Kevin Love:

Overpaid defensive liability who is always injured and is overrated on offense.

No argument there. I'm hoping the Dauminator can show show a Love-like game in summer league.

 

[kjironman1]

I think folks need to understand why they are our forwards.

Most of understand why they are our forwards. It's because LaMarcus Aldridge walked and Batum was sent to the Hornets. The Blazers went through a rebuild and that was the best they could get.

 

[kjironman1]

Love is doing about 17 pts and 10 reb average the last 4 years. If that isn't enough of an upgrade then i don't know what is?
He's expensive sure. But he gets it done and the team could use that kind of presence.

 

[tlongII]

Say what you want, Love is listed at 6'10" and the 6'7.75 is without shoes.

I don't expect George to get a block a game at the SF postion, Pascal and SA need to step up their D.

Adams got ATE by Kanter so...

Edit: But I know you aren't comparing them as defenders to Love right?

We all know he isn't in the same league as them.

All I can say is I want some of those shoes!

 

[hoopsjock]

I mainly highlighted blocks because the eventual starter at that position (Collins) is a shot blocker as is Nurk.

But I've already said why I don't want Kevin Love:

Overpaid defensive liability who is always injured and is overrated on offense.

I don't want Kevin Love BUT Enes Kanter was thought of as a worse defender than Love and he was okay in our system.

 

[PCmor7]

This board completely overrates him IMO:

View attachment 26716

I don't.

 

[dviss1]

I don't want Kevin Love BUT Enes Kanter was thought of as a worse defender than Love and he was okay in our system.

Next time use red font for playing devils advocate. Apples/oranges.

Defending a PF (especially in this new NBA) is much different than guarding a center. Love should play Center now.

I'm more comfortable with Kevin guarding Gasol than Siakam.

You?

He's gonna guard AD? LOL.

You really want LA to beat us because of overpaid Kevin Love?

All of the good PFs (Draymond, AD, Siakam, etc) can guard him though because he's bothered by long athletic defenders.

He does not put us into contention. Defense wins.

You think we won't need to give up Collins to get him?

C'mon bro.