Blazers rebuffing Cavs' offers for Aldridge

[RR7]

I said the league favors wings.

PapaG said that Duncan, West, and Hibbert disagree, so I'm guessing those three players?

You also said it was shown LMA wasn't a true post player, so was just curious what a true post player actually is.

 

[Natebishop3]

You also said it was shown LMA wasn't a true post player, so was just curious what a true post player actually is.

I would guess someone that plays in the most more than they play outside the post. Aldridge is capable of playing in the post, but do you think that he scores or attempts most of his shots in the post?

 

[RR7]

I would guess someone that plays in the most more than they play outside the post. Aldridge is capable of playing in the post, but do you think that he scores or attempts most of his shots in the post?

Aldridge takes about 34% of his shots out of the post. That's almost double the percentage he takes in any other sort of offensive play ran for him(iso, P&R, spot up, transition, etc.). So while I'd love to see it higher, I 1) appreciate the space he creates for Lillard by not ALWAYS being in the post, and 2) recognize that he is posting up more often than any other play. So I wouldn't say he's primarily a spot up shooter. I wouldn't say he's primarily a PnR/pop big. I wouldn't say he's primarily an ISO big. And though I wouldn't say he's primarily a post up big, he's doing that more often than other plays.

 

[PapaG]

I would guess someone that plays in the most more than they play outside the post. Aldridge is capable of playing in the post, but do you think that he scores or attempts most of his shots in the post?

Which NBA who averages 20ppg scores most of their points in the post?

 

[Rhal]

I would guess someone that plays in the most more than they play outside the post. Aldridge is capable of playing in the post, but do you think that he scores or attempts most of his shots in the post?

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchar...false&display-mode=performance&zone-mode=zone
Thats his shot distribution from this year, He does take more shots outside the paint then in it but he shoots quiet a bit more from the 12f area then I thought he did. LMA Also gets into the low block all the time and then passes it to an open 3 shooter, i'd like to see a statistic detailing where he often passes the ball from and their subsequent % from said places.

 

[Rhal]

Which NBA who averages 20ppg scores most of their points in the post?

No one does, but David Lee at 18.5 http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=101135 and Brook lopez at 19.5 http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201572 are the closest. Neither is the #1 option and teams don't generally plan to stop either of those players, instead both teams have stellar guards that seem to be the focus of many defenses.

 

[RR7]

Along the same lines, would you consider Wes Matthews "primarily" a spot up shooter?

 

[Natebishop3]

Aldridge takes about 34% of his shots out of the post. That's almost double the percentage he takes in any other sort of offensive play ran for him(iso, P&R, spot up, transition, etc.). So while I'd love to see it higher, I 1) appreciate the space he creates for Lillard by not ALWAYS being in the post, and 2) recognize that he is posting up more often than any other play. So I wouldn't say he's primarily a spot up shooter. I wouldn't say he's primarily a PnR/pop big. I wouldn't say he's primarily an ISO big. And though I wouldn't say he's primarily a post up big, he's doing that more often than other plays.

Which NBA who averages 20ppg scores most of their points in the post?

All I said was that he isn't a true post player.... which is someone, I think, who gets most of their points/attempts in the paint. I didn't say he was incapable of playing in the post, or that he's a bad player. I think the current rules in the NBA favors wing players.

 

[RR7]

No one does, but David Lee at 18.5 http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=101135 and Brook lopez at 19.5 http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201572 are the closest. Neither is the #1 option and teams don't generally plan to stop either of those players, instead both teams have stellar guards that seem to be the focus of many defenses.

For points in the paint. Big difference. David Lee posts up a little over half as much as LaMarcus. He scores in the paint off of PnR, cuts to the basket, and ORBs

 

[RR7]

All I said was that he isn't a true post player.... which is someone, I think, who gets most of their points/attempts in the paint. I didn't say he was incapable of playing in the post, or that he's a bad player. I think the current rules in the NBA favors wing players.

Most, assuming, meaning more than half. Am then curious, again, who you consider a true post player?

 

[Natebishop3]

Most, assuming, meaning more than half. Am then curious, again, who you consider a true post player?

Sam Perkins. Channing Frye. Rasheed Wallace. Clifford Robinson. All most definitely "true post players".

 

[RR7]

Sam Perkins. Channing Frye. Rasheed Wallace. Clifford Robinson. All most definitely "true post players".

Serious question, unsure why you don't want to answer it. You say you don't think he is a true post player because he doesn't score most of his points out of the post. So who is?

 

[Natebishop3]

Serious question, unsure why you don't want to answer it. You say you don't think he is a true post player because he doesn't score most of his points out of the post. So who is?

Do you want historically or currently? I think Aldridge is part of a trend of power forwards that started with guys like Dirk and Sheed. They are more than capable of playing the paint, but they're in love with the outside shot. Obviously Dirk is quite possibly the best shooting big man of all time, but he helped along the cause of the finesse forward that we see much of today.

 

[RR7]

Of current. I don't believe there's any "true" post player who is getting over half of his points out of post ups. I could very well be wrong. And again, I don't consider someone getting the ball on the PnR abd scoring at the rim a post up player. It seems many are quick to criticize LMA for what they want him to be, when nobody else is doing that. I want him to average 45 points on 18 shots, and get 25 rebounds. And I'm mad as hell when he doesn't do it. WHo are the true post up players he should be more like?

 

[Natebishop3]

Of current. I don't believe there's any "true" post player who is getting over half of his points out of post ups. I could very well be wrong. And again, I don't consider someone getting the ball on the PnR abd scoring at the rim a post up player. It seems many are quick to criticize LMA for what they want him to be, when nobody else is doing that. I want him to average 45 points on 18 shots, and get 25 rebounds. And I'm mad as hell when he doesn't do it. WHo are the true post up players he should be more like?

I didn't say he should be like anyone. I'm fine with him scoring from all over the floor. I would prefer a few less outside shots, but that's part of his game. My point was that the league favors wing players with their rules. PapaG said that Hibbert, West, and Duncan disagree. While I think Duncan's game is fairly similar offensively to Aldridge, Hibbert is obviously different.

 

[RR7]

I didn't say he should be like anyone. I'm fine with him scoring from all over the floor. I would prefer a few less outside shots, but that's part of his game. My point was that the league favors wing players with their rules. PapaG said that Hibbert, West, and Duncan disagree. While I think Duncan's game is fairly similar offensively to Aldridge, Hibbert is obviously different.

You said you don't consider him a true post player who gets most his points from ther. Just asking who is.

 

[Natebishop3]

You said you don't consider him a true post player who gets most his points from ther. Just asking who is.

But I didn't say if that was a good or bad thing, did I?

Do you consider him to be a true post player?

 

[RR7]

But I didn't say if that was a good or bad thing, did I?

Do you consider him to be a true post player?

LOL.

who is a true post player?

 

[PapaG]

But I didn't say if that was a good or bad thing, did I?

Do you consider him to be a true post player?

Haha! That wasn't what you posted originally.

Who are the pure post scoring PFs according to "Brian", who posts a lot of words, but those words are easily dissected and proven wrong when actually looking at the question posed.

 

[Natebishop3]

Haha! That wasn't what you posted originally.

Who are the pure post scoring PFs according to "Brian", who posts a lot of words, but those words are easily dissected and proven wrong when actually looking at the question posed.

And only people with too much time on their hands over analyze and break down the intent and meaning of every single post they disagree with on an internet forum. Congrats, you win at life.

 

[PapaG]

And only people with too much time on their hands over analyze and break down the intent and meaning of every single post they disagree with on an internet forum. Congrats, you win at life.

I didn't dissect Brian's lengthy posts. You did reference them, though, as some sort of proof about LMA.

I think BrianfromWA has lengthy post that try to validate his own view on players.

The "Best of 3" post today was garbage, and I did notice that eblazer tried at least to argue with the false premise BrianFromWA was trying to present as reality.

 

[BrianFromWA]

The "proof" about LMA is from stats, not "words in a lengthy garbage post." I notice that you couldn't/chose not to answer any of the "Best of 3" questions that came up, like which needle-moving big you were going to get to make Option 2 or 3 work, and how you expected to win going forward.

But hey, keep on keepin' on!

 

[PapaG]

The "proof" about LMA is from stats, not "words in a lengthy garbage post." I notice that you couldn't/chose not to answer any of the "Best of 3" questions that came up, like which needle-moving big you were going to get to make Option 2 or 3 work, and how you expected to win going forward.

But hey, keep on keepin' on!

You gave three options, and three options only. eblazer dissected your third option. Frankly, I don't really read your posts much anymore, because you've admitted that they are based on hypothetical scenarios.

 

[BrianFromWA]

That explains a lot, actually.

I'm sure you could just hang your hat on "LMA's an All-Star BEST PF IN THE LEAGUE never gonna ever leave post player extraordinaire YAR!" argument. I choose not to--partially because I don't believe much of that, and partially because the stats back it up.

And there are huge differences between hypothetical scenarios, refutation of arguments and analysis.

There ARE only 3 options until 2015. Trade him this summer, trade him over the next 2 years or don't trade him. Do you have another? I'm happy to see it. All I've seen so far is people saying "NO!" But I guess it takes a lot more to come up with reasons for why you feel the way you do rather than to just attack someone else's. Hence my "lengthy" posts. I've yet to see one from you since the Outlaw/Webster days.

 

[BrianFromWA]

eblazer's "dissection"

I think that there are a bunch of permutations of #3 that may be available. I think that the crop of likely centers is pretty unlikely to move the dial much. I could see Olshey going for a bigger hit by trying to pull off a deal that gets another All-Star caliber player at a wing position and then moves either Wes or Nic for a serviceable center. I guess there's also the option of banking on Leonard getting better quickly, just picking up an aging vet for not much money (O'Neal?) to buy some time, and using most of the cap space to pick up better bench pieces. I call that one the MediocreMan Coronary plan.

This isn't about eblazer--in fact, I agree with some of what he's saying, but this is neither a papaG-level word parse or a refutation (or, honestly, what I'd call a "dissection", but that's open for debate). "Banking on Leonard quickly", "picking up an aging vet to buy some time" are part of what I'm talking about---that you have the team you have now, (maybe) plus #10 if you didn't trade it for your needle-moving stiff, no pick next year at all and the MLE next year to get better.
What LMA may or may not get traded for is hypothetical...looking at the big picture of what assets you have going forward is analysis. Making decisions based on those analyses is strategy. Chess, not checkers.

 

[jlprk]

I just want my 7-0 $15M star to either own the paint, or try to. I don't want a Channing Frye-like specialist shooter.

In Aldridge interviews, he answers 99% about his shooting and 0% about his defense. That shows his priorities.

So I wouldn't mind trading him for a much younger player with equal talent (like the #1 pick of the draft, plus Waiters) and training the young guy the right way to play.

 

[STOMP]

I guess we'll see who wins it all. If Indy or San Antonio pull it off and win the whole thing, I'll agree with you. But LMA is nothing like Duncan or Hibbert, and Brian has shown that Aldridge is not a true post player.

besides having similar size/length & game, LA has been wiping the floor when matched against Duncan for years now... look it up

& whats a "true post player"? One who can't operate outside of the low block in half court sets? By that description Duncan isn't a true post player either. Again, LA plays on the high post when matched with a one dimensional low post only Big like JJ. He can also dominate on the low block when matched with a high post Big like Camby. I suspect the team wants to put LaMarcus down low again, which is part of why they turned the page on your guy JJ

STOMP

 

[PtldPlatypus]

besides having similar size/length & game, LA has been wiping the floor when matched against Duncan for years now... look it up

Since you said to, I did. From the beginning of Aldridge's 3rd year, they've played 12 times, Portland winning 9 of those games. Aldridge has averaged 24, 7, 2.3 on 58.5% shooting, while Duncan has put up 15, 8.5, 2.25 on 48.6% shooting. I'm surprised at the disparity.

 

[illmatic99]

Ya LA seems to really get up for those DAL/SAS games. I really want to see what he can do if his minutes are cut down to like 35 per game and he doesn't have to try to bang with bigger guys on either end for half the game.

I'm thinking his efficiency will improve vastly. As an aside, I expect the same for Dame with fewer minutes.

 

[magnifier661]

I just want my 7-0 $15M star to either own the paint, or try to. I don't want a Channing Frye-like specialist shooter.

In Aldridge interviews, he answers 99% about his shooting and 0% about his defense. That shows his priorities.

So I wouldn't mind trading him for a much younger player with equal talent (like the #1 pick of the draft, plus Waiters) and training the young guy the right way to play.

Karl Malone was a below average defender, yet considered one of the best power forwards in the game. Guess your entire premises got blown out of the water.